Talk:Hilary Rosen
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This article seems a bit POV. Surely the RIAA had some key victories under Rosen's tenure, especially on the legislative front. Does someone want to rephrase the article?
I don't think it's POV at all:
- However, some record industry sources indicated that many music industry executives were unhappy with Rosen's nearly complete failure to eliminate Internet trafficking in copyrighted audio files.
This is objectively true. The RIAA succeded in shutting down Napster. That's it. That has been their only key success to date in halting the spread of mp3 sharing online.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who first learned of mp3 file sharing through the publicity surrounding the Napster case. Today, there are literally dozens and dozens of different services and programs one can use to easily and effectively trade mp3's online, as opposed to the Napster era, when there was one, and the pre-Napster era, when one had to go through a long and convoluted process involving private FTP servers or IRC to get mp3's. If anything, their vociferous battle against Napster only served to publicize the fact that one can download mp3's of copyrighted music online.
- ... Rosen's hardline approach to Internet music sharing has alienated many music consumers, and even some popular artists from the RIAA's position on intellectual property rights.
Also objectively true. There are, in fact, hundreds of thousands of music consumers who hate Rosen's guts for what she's trying to do. Read slashdot, or search on Google, or wait a few days for the RIAA's website to get hacked again. As for artists, google for the positions of The Offspring or Tori Amos or Limp Bizkit or Eddie Vedder or Alanis Morissette (among others) on the subject of copyrighted mp3 sharing online.
--kwertii
Unfortunately, you have selected only those facts which support your argument. Allow me to point out the following developments since Hillary Rosen took over:
- The legal landscape in which peer-to-peer file services are now operating is very shaky in the United States and other Western countries such as Canada and the UK.
- Napster has been shut down, which you point out.
- The DMCA has been passed and used, which has had a demonstrable chilling effect on research into copy-protection circumvention.
- The United States Supreme Court, in its January 15 2003 decision in Eldred vs. Ashcroft, has upheld the CTEA (copyright term extension act), thanks largely to extensive lobbying by the RIAA.
- The popular Audiogalaxy peer-to-peer music sharing service has been largely shut down. Now only sponsored music appears.
- Several new anti-pirating technologies have been developed and are being deployed, including new CD copy protection techniques that have already hit the shelves. Microsoft itself has recently unveiled a new copy protection format for CD-ROMs.
The list goes on and on...
Chadloder 01:01 Jan 25, 2003 (UTC)
Everything you said is true but irrelevant; you have not pointed out a single phrase in the article that is not objectively true, or that is in any way POV. These points are certainly worth mentioning within the context of Rosen's tenure as head of the RIAA, however
The de facto, NPOV reality of the situation is that mp3 sharing continues unabated on the Internet, in spite of any and all laws that have been passed, and in spite of all the actions Rosen took.
Sure, they got laws passed, and Audiogalaxy got shut down. So what? Kazaa is more popular than Napster ever was (before the RIAA stepped in and put them on the front page of every newspaper, anyway), and many, many people still download mp3's.
Rosen's mandate from the RIAA was to eliminate mp3 swapping online, and at that she has failed. Read the linked Washington Post article, or search on news.google.com and check out the tons of other articles. They all reference unnamed music industry sources who indicate that Rosen's resignation is due to A) her failure to stop mp3 swapping, and B) her hardball tactics, which have undeinably made lots and lots of people very mad at the RIAA.
--kwertii
Nonsense. I read the WP article before posting, obviously. It doesn't say anything about her, as you put it, "Nearly complete failure". That's a very POV statement, it's not justified. If you think it's justified, then you'll have to argue your case better -- I provided references and examples showing why your statement is incorrect and unjustified. You told me to read the article (which says nothing of the kind) and look for news sources on Google? Wikipedia is not Time magazine. It's not Slashdot either. Sorry, I'm removing your statement and replacing it with something more balanced (and informative).Chadloder 01:34 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
See? I think my version is MUCH better. :) Chadloder 02:07 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
I like your version better, too, but not because of any POV issues. What you wrote is longer and more detailed. You include several points that I overlooked which needed to be included. I realize this is an encyclopedia and not a news magazine. Encyclopedias record history (among other things), and this is a historic development in the context of the Internet. As unfortunately none of us know Rosen personally or work for the RIAA (as far as I know), we are forced to rely on media coverage of events to create the article
There are a couple of points which I've edited, however:
- Industry adoption of new digital copyright protection technologies - for the most part, the music industry has not adopted any copyright protection technologies, except for a few test cases. 99.99% of new CD's sold are still not copyright protected, and the few pilot releases that were protected were flops, because people found that they couldn't play them on car CD players or personal computers. Almost nobody uses the DRM enabled media types, because there are competing formats that are just as good and not DRM crippled. And in any event, this shouldn't be in a "legal victories" section, as it is a private internal industry decision and not a legal action.
- "nearly complete failure" is quite accurate and NPOV. She was trying to stop mp3 sharing. Mp3 sharing is currently more popular than it ever was. She did shut down a few services, including one major one, but every time she did, 10 others sprung up to take the place of the closed down one. In a historical sense, this constitutes, objectively, "nearly complete failure" to achieve that goal, any way you look at it.
- Her resignation was not purely due to personal issues, despite the official spin, as has been reported in almost every article on her resignation. That industry pressure to resign objectively existed is indisputable; not recording that fact would be POV.
-kwertii
I think some of the stuff on this page would be better on the RIAA page. Here, we could add more stuff about Hilary Rosen, e.g. what she did before becoming hewad of RIAA. -- Cabalamat 16:39, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
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- Agree, I was just about to comment after discovering the lengthy new content on IP issues. That information now constitutes over half the article which is supposed to be about Hilary Rosen. It's inappropriate in this context. Autiger 17:17, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Bias (POV)
I've added a POV tag. I think this article is biased against the RIAA and against Hilary.
There are phrases like "Nonetheless, while RIAA was the enforcement arm of the industry" and "Despite the RIAA's aggressive tactics", and so on (emotive language).
Please Cite sources, such as for "Many say that despite Rosen's public loyalty to the industry, ....". Who are they?
Finally, there may be validity issues, with phrases like "DRM enabled media formats ... proved similarly unpopular with consumers" - how about Apple's iTunes? --H2g2bob 14:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- because most of the consumers are mindless teens. - anon —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.15.226.37 (talk) 21:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC).
