Talk:Hikikomori

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I'm a new user to Wikipedia, so please let me know if I'm editing this talk page incorrectly. I wanted to suggest a small addition to the article's section on 'hikimori' throughout the world, as follows:

In 2005, Japanese and Omani researchers reported a case of 'hikikomori' in a 24-year-old young man in Oman, and speculated about similar factors that might explain the phenomenon's presence in both cultures: (1) in both countries, "there is a tendency to regard shame as an important emotional experience"; (2) while language lets people express their emotions, "the presence of rich metaphors and abstractions [within language] may promote a feeling that one is been ['sic'] evaluated by others"; and (3) "the more moral ethical codes and customs a society carries," the more likely it is for people to fear being "embarassed, scrutinized, judged, or humiliated in public." [1]

(I came across this article doing a little report on 'hikikomori.')

I'm not really sure about putting it in the article, because the "World Wide" subsection falls under the broader "Controversy" section, and my addition wouldn't really talk about a controversy. If anyone has any suggestions about this, I wouldn't mind putting in some time to re-organize bits of the page. P.S. The single apostrophes were supposed to make italitcs. Itsameanick 06:55, 7 May 2006 (UTC)ItsaMeaNick


You are right, the recent restructuring left the world-wide part kind of misplaced in the controversy section. I've now separated the general description from the controversy paragraph and moved it to the situation section.

On a different note, I'm not so sure about the alleged parallel between Oman and Japanese hikkimori in your addition. To my mind, in Japan the spreading of the hikimori phenomenon owes to 1) the Japanese meritocracy and high competitiveness in the universities and on the job market 2) the extremely rigid social conduct and social hierarchy and 3) the conformity and subordination traditionally expected from Japanese, all of this putting great pressure on the individual. While elements particularly of 1) as well as the pressure to lead a life in tune with what society regards as "normal" and "successful" can be found throughout capitalist societies world-wide, the other factors may give the phenomenon a specific Japanese quality at least (i.e., similiar symptoms/consequences throughout the world that result in hikkimori-like existences may have different causes). Bluebird47 11:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Needs Revision

The article needs major revision; it's whole approach to writing the article is not really neutral, or too subjective. Somehow, I just feel it doesn't follow the Wikipedia standard policies. It also reads more like a blog or an amateur essay than an encyclopedic article. It is kind of closed minded and holds a non-neutral view on what exactly defines a "Hikikomori" -- it provides examples, but the wording is off - it should state that "often times, people who are considered to be Hikikomoris are this way..." etc., instead of, "Hikikomoris usually are this way..." It is almost as if the article is treating this personallity type as a different breed or species! There are no set "guidelines" to being a Hiki, they don't always sleep in the morning, etc.

I have a feeling the article was written in Japanese, and translated back; which is why it is in bad shape. An example of what I mean would be: Why is it that the article mentions manga, television, and computer games specifically? Why wouldn't it be video games, board games, games in general, or any type of media or form of entertainment? And instead of stating that these 3 are most common medias; the article simply states it as a fact -- it leaves no room for other forms of media. The article is riddled with tons of errors like this.

Actually, I may be wrong on what I wrote above -- maybe the term DOES require a certain set of pacuiliarities (sp?) for a person to be considered on. Although I doubt it.

Most of the article originates from me, and was not translated from Japanese sources. You are right as I am not a professional sociologist, but feel free to work on the article and improve it. With Hikkikomori, there is alwas a gray area between being normal (whatever that is) and being a Hikkikomori, and any statement can be started with usually, often, many.... As for your example with the games, my feeling is that most board games and many non-computer games are for multiple players, whiich does not fit the definition of Hikkikomori. Computer games and video games are in my opinion synonyms, as any video game requires a computer of some sort to run. Anyway, feel free to work on the article -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the assessment that this article, while providing a great wealth of information on this social phenomenon, needs revision as it does not provide the necessary Neutral Point of View (NPOV). Apart from that I also got the impression that not a social group is characterized here, but an animal species, I think the main problem with the presented point of view can be compared with similiar controversies regarding other social minority groups or phenomenons that divert from the perceived societal majority "norm". ONE group might argue that it is a pathological psychological condition that needs treatment - people need to be "cured" from their differenceness and fit in with the masses - while ANOTHER might say that this is just a difference stance on life and no one who respects human diversity has the right to condemn these people unless they disrupt society through violence(when they do not in general). While objections to the lifestyle in question are fully valid, it is clear to me that this article only represents the first view on the matter, which i find problematic in light of the highly conformist nature of traditional (and corporate) Japanese society, where (esp from a Western view) this and other phenomena can be seen as individualistic anti-movements rather than illnesses that need treatment in ANY CASE. In particular, as the other poster noted saying things like "these people usually are this or that way" and especially "they are acutely aware of their problem" are examples for the POV view on the matter. I suggest cleaning the article from such absolute terms and maybe also adding a section clearly addressing the "lifestyle" stance on the phenomenon, as has been done with similiarly controversial topics to make them more balanced (see Schizoid and Asperger Syndrome). --Bluebird47, 4 May 2006

I started a major clean-up of the article both regarding its POV language and the imbalanced view as highlighted by its structuring alone. Having read through the related Freeter and Parasite Singles articles (while not being without own problems), I noticed that their structure is much better suited in terms of a neutral examination of the phenomenon. I have therefore adopted it, adjusted the order of some paragraphs in consequence, removed some excessive sub-structuring and added the "acceptance" paragraph to achieve a balance between lifestyle choice and illness views. No doubt, there is more detail work necessary to remove the speculative tone of some paragraphs, and, as has been noted for the mentioned related articles, it is suggested to add more sources to back up some of the claim given. --Bluebird47, 5 May 2006
Thank you for your contributions. I am completely comfortable with the new (improved) version, and would support a removal of the POV tag. Thank you for your work! -- Chris 73 | Talk 06:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad you agree with the changes. After proofreading once more, I'll remove the tag. Bluebird47 11:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding A Cultural References section to the end of the entry

Someone mentioned this idea for the freeter entry and I thought that it might bear consideration for the hikikomori entry.

A 'Cultural References' section at the end of the entry could also provide a way for people to see how Japanese culture perceives this phenomenon.

There have been a few movies such as 'Tokyo Plastic', as well as novels with hikikomori-type characters featured in the plotline. There is also no doubt a fair number of manga in Japan with hikikomori in the stories. Compiling a few of the more prominent instances of such cultural references to hikikomori would be quite informative. --Mdziesinski 18:41, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Problems with Stevertigo's edits

I would like to see where the existing body of research on hikikomori states:

The pressure comes from a number of different sources, and though its ill effects are well known, the issue is generally regarded as a tradeoff between the greater material benefits to the society, versus the humanization of the individual.


  • This is great a philosophy argument, but most of the published research on hikikomori points to the previous edit, which is more accurate:


The pressure comes from a number of different sources, but largely the focus of concern centers around the issue of transformation from youth to adult, along with its related core issues of independence and self-reliance.


  • Maybe issues of the dehumanizing effect of Globalism should be kept in that particular entry.


There are three primary factors causing hikikomori:

1) middle class affluence in a postindustrial society allows parents to support a adult child indefinitely in the home. In lower income families there are no hikikomori because that youth is forced to work if he cannot finish school, for this reason isolation in the room stops at an early stage.

2) the inability of parents to recognize and act on the youth's slide into isolation (soft parenting) or even a codependent collusion between mother and son (known as amae in Japanese.

3) the flat economy and job market which makes the years of competitive schooling pointless. While their fathers still enjoy life employment at Multi-Nationals such as Mitsubishi, young employees in Japan enjoy no such job guarantees in today's job market (See Freeters and NEET for more on this). Young people are savvy enough to see the system in place for their grandfathers and fathers no longer works.


Also problems with this edit:

== Industrialized education ===

The Japan education system is notorious worldwide for its strict nature, high expectations, high emphasis on competition, and strict pass-or-fail ideology. As the educational system is viewed as an important part of the society's overall productivity and success, students often face significant pressure from parents and the society in general to conform to the its dictates and doctrines. These doctrines, while part of modern Japanese society, are often extreme —they may be rejected by youth.

Industrialized education


  • This whole passage is sensational and notorious is also a bit over the top as a descriptor; if you do research on Japanese education in 2005 or have lived in Japan as long as I have, you would discover that the 'pressure-cooker' schools reported to exist in Japan according to the modified entry have been significantly relaxed to 5 day weeks with academic curricula comparable to Western education since 1996, even dropping two subjects from the daily schedule. If there is ANY educational pressure for youth in Japan today, again the onus falls upon the parents who send kids to private cram schools to 'make up' for the newly lax curricula in the public schools.


In extreme cases, the pressure starts already before pre-school, where even toddlers must compete through an entrance exam for the privilege of attending the the best pre-schools.


  • Yes, this exists, but mostly in Tokyo, and is, as the editor states, an 'extreme case'; it doesn't explain why hikikomori are cropping up all across the nation.


  • The educational model added to the hikikomori entry by Stevertigo's is stuff published in the 1990s when the threat of 'Japan Inc.' existed, not the rapidly changing system in effect today.


  • The whole addition of the 'notorious Japanese education system' in the new edits are problematic, oversimplify the hikikomori issue and reinforce stereotypes about the Japanese. It seriously needs to be toned down.


I'm brining this up in talk as I feel a Wiki moderator needs to look at this.

If I change it without comment, it might seem I'm going after Stevertigo, but the problem here is the sensational flavor the education system additions and theory he presents.

The rest of the his additions are welcome, add to the richness of the entry, and do indeed fit with the existing body of hikikomori entry as it stood before his additions. I applaud him for that input. --Mdziesinski 11:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nevada-tan?

Nevada-Tan's article is listed under 'See Also', but was Nevada-tan really a hikikomori? She was noted as being quite obsessed with the Internet but I cannot find any evidence of her being reclusive. Is this link really appropriate?

  • I agree, and thought the link was not appropriate as hikikomori are not really violent like Nevada-Tan and the linkage only serves to reinforce the idea that hikikomori are 'scary and violent teens who might come out of their rooms at any minute to attack you'. However, upon reading the Nevada-Tan entry, and how the Japanese public though the girl displayed some of the same behavior patterns as hikikomori (though this is debatable), I can see the relevance as a link as it is related to the hikikomori topic, if only in a peripheral way.

[edit] 203.198.242.116 engaging in Vandalism in progress or trolling

Following Wiki's procedures, I am initiating the first stage in what I believe to be Vandalism in progress or trolling by 203.198.242.116.

It has exceeded the Three-revert rule and frankly I'm getting tired of seeing what appears to be viral marketing on this hikikomori entry.

If the user at 203.198.242.116 wants to add more depth to Homokaasu entry, then by all means do so at that entry. It appears that there is an attempt to add mind control links to various topics throughout Wiki as a form of virtual tagging or graffiti.

If the additions of irrelevant material about 'mind control' experiments continue, I will put in a Requests for mediation or possibly IP blocking.

203.198.242.116, please stop. Wiki is a valuable resource to many people, not a BBS.


  • FYI, the Three-revert rule is no more then 3 reversions in a 24hr period; so there has been no violation of 3RR as the reversions occured over 3 days. This is blattant calumny.
Adding a link toward Homokaasu is only simple logic, a significant improvement to these systematically biased entries. If you want to deny this evidence in order to implement your personal agenda, serious readers aren't illiterate enough and will decide by themselves. They expect and rightfully deserve better from this encyclopedia. --203.198.242.116 11:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
    • I concede that the three revert rule was not violated, however, you (203.198.242.116) have repeatedly added in material on the Frey effect and homokassu that has no direct bearing on hikikomori, despite several editors reverting out your additions, you have repeatedly reinserted them. These are bad faith edits bordering on vandalism. I looked at the controversy on the Frey Effect entry and that is not something desired on this entry. I will ask the moderators of Wiki to lock this entry if needed. BTW, I have no personal 'agenda', I am a social scientist who has done field research on the topic in ACTUAL hikikomori rehab centers, who has been very careful to only include material in this entry from already-published academic and public sources on the hikikomori issue. Your edits on 'mind control' have not a whit to do with these poor youth who are trying to sort out their lives and find a way out of their predicament. What you are doing to the hikikomori entry trivializes and cheapens their plight and prevents serious discussion about the hikikomori topic. --Mdziesinski 9:19, 01 Semptember 2005 (UTC)
      • Agreed, 203.198.242.116 has been trolling and inserting unneeded links about mind control to a few different Wikipedia pages. An IP ban is definitely in order if this behavior persists. Colin McMillen 07:27, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
    • While my modest goal here is to educate the younger readers, it seems that you are now aware that your desperate attempt to scramble and save what is left of the CIA smoke screen that prevailed in the media will no longer be adequate to provide a cover-up for the said CIA psychotronic warfare. Trying to silence me in this sole encyclopedia with systematic gang style stalking, fabricated grotesque defamation and barrage of vandalism will lead you nowhere.


Bhishma: Is it true that you have mastered all the possible forms of war?
Drona: As well as you, Bhishma.
— The Mahabharata
--203.198.242.116 11:32, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Are you for real??? This CIA nonsense has nothing to do with a social problem in Japan. Nothing. Take this paranioa talk to the frey entry or tinfoil hats. Or better yet, write a constructive Wiki entry on what you feel you are an expert of and leave non-related Wiki entries alone. I'm not even going to dignify anymore responses on what is clearly an Internet_troll.--Mdziesinski 12:06, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
      • 203.198.242.116, be precautious, I am suspicious, too. It shows symptoms of an isolating technique. I am experiencing it. I consider my mindstate not healthy. It is of course the result of drug and internet overuse, but on the other hand, there is an influence coming from a perfectly organised medial image (of success and other states of sociality), too. It is, so far I agree with you, my belief that these influences are not coincidential (but instead related to each other). There is no room for debate. To the address of "observers", keep in mind that the application of the notion of "trolling" requires an intentional vandalism. I must also remind you that you debate a psychopathological subject here, and unless you are accredited you should completely refrain from publishing an analysis, because there is danger of issuing malpractised advice to the affected.

[edit] Depression?

This sounds like depression to me The symptoms are there: Shutting down yourself, that is, staying away from society, not taking baths, social awkwardness, etc. Why isn't a single mention of a possible depression? -- 9:38, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Because the phenomenon is more complex than just satisfying the symptoms for depression. True, some hikikomori may exhibit the behavior patterns of depressives, but others who are also classified by Japanese society as hikikomori, do not. The key thing to consider here is that the social label of hikikomori in Japanese Society is an umbrella term for any individual who shut himself off from society at large; the common discourse in Japan isn't concerned about the causes that Western doctors might look for, but rather the final resultant behavior: acute social withdrawal. Some hikikomori may be suffering from depression, others acute shyness, others laziness, yet others may be mentally handicapped. In Japanese society, all of these patterns of behavior, if they lead to hikikomori reclusiveness, are termed 'hikikomori'. Medicalizing hikikomori by labeling them all with the Western medical definition of 'depression' only muddies the waters. Also, I did field research with hikikomori and I would not classify most hikikomori I observed as purely depressive, but rather shy and socially stagnant individuals who normalized into functional adults with very few relapses once socialized. Clinical depression is much more likely to reoccur. --Mdziesinski 08:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi Mdziesinski, thanks for the very useful info, very insightful (hope that's the correct word).
Oh, and I saw that another user added a link to Depression :)
(the smilie looks eerie next to the word depression)
anyway, thanks a lot -- 3:36, 20 September 2005
You're welcome. BTW, have you ever considered getting a login at Wikipedia? It's free, and helps in communicating, since you get your own talk page -- Chris 73 Talk 04:58, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thanks, I already have one in spanish, but will take your advice and open one in english. It's just that I like the recent "open edit for all" feature, to wander around, see something that needs fixing and then correct it :P cya. -- 15:55, 21 September 2005

[edit] Not just a Japanese Problem

I think the Western World fails to recoginize that hikokimori is not just a problem that invovles only Asian cultures. The fact that the same strife conditions exist in in the West should be studied further as it may determine the diffence between depression and hikokimori.

However, the APA seems to list diagnosises like hikokimori as some form of psychosexual disorder because of regressed sexual fantasies or bottled frustrations that could lead to violent behavior. If that is the case, then according to the APA just about ever social pariah (sp) suffers from hikikomori. This logically can not be true.

Further investigation into this article would be wise especially since events such as Columbine and the Sakakibara murders can not be used as examples of hikokimori and would suggest that the average hikokimori sufferer is potentially violent and a danger to the general public.

Institutionalization is not the propoer treatment for hikokimori. If anything, putting someone who suffers from hikokimori into a mental hospital would do more harm than good psychologically since hikokimori is more off a stress disorder brought on by high levels of stress. If anything, some time away from the city but with other people, possibly other hikokimori sufferers, would seem like a better treatment.

Currently, Western medicine does not recognize hikokimori, but as a form of depression brought on by high levels of stress and anxiety. Western medicine seems to think that pills and mental institutionalization (ranging from three days of outpatient observation to instititutional confinement) are the only solution to this problem. If you just had a severe nervious breakdown (common symptom of hikokimori) the last thing anyone wants to do is spend three days with violently or screaming mental patients with diagnosises far worse than hikikomori.

If a sufferer has been taking prescribed amphetamines (i.e. Ritalin) or anti-depressants (i.e. Prozac), psychologists should consider if the patient may be suffering from a form of hikokimori rather than explicity diagnosing the patient with Bipolar disorder, mania, or some other psychosis. --Bushido Hacks 17:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More on the “Not just a Japanese Problem”

I am Western, I am 17, I live in the United States and I would say I am a prime example of a Hikikomori. Over the last few months (since winter break) I have become a “Hikikomori,” I share just about every one of the criteria excepts the part about becoming violent and wanting to lash out.

I am awake all night; I sleep until one in the afternoon (I use to claim it is because I wanted to avoid watching daytime television). Most of my waking hours are spent alone, in my room, watching films, surfing the internet, reading, gaming, playing guitar, listening to music (I am addicted to music).

I have set my own sleep schedule; even during school, I come home and sleep till eight or so, that way I can stay up until the next day and then I go to class. I stay up, watch Conan, Tube Music Network, and World News Now.

I haven’t taken part in an after school activity or club since middle school (I have been considering joining the debate club, but I don’t like the kids that have joined all ready)

I do have “retinues and habits”, having my shoes by my bedside, like setting out my cloths, wallet, mp3 player, books, bag, etc, etc, etc, the day before. I make sure I have my lunch money the day before, I set aside specific time periods for everything I do in my day.

I have leave the house to hang out with friends very seldom, and I have a very small group of friends(two kids I consider real friends in a group of about four). The only other times I leave is either for food/soda or to go to the library, or go see a film (by myself).

I looked at my MSN contacts list and I found that my Internet friends (i.e. people I know from forums like this one) out number friends that I go to class with (16 kids I go to class with, and 31 internet friends).

And I am famous for cooking mainly after my siblings and parents are gone or asleep, my mom constantly complains about waking up and finding dirty dishes.

[edit] Section "Worldwide"

I agree with Bushido Hacks, in that I highly doubt that hikikomori itself is mainly a Japanese problem. IMO there mainly seems to be a lack of an fitting equivalent term in the West. Twixter f.ex. is pretty different to the situation a hikikomori lives in, as they have contact with other people, etc.

My closest guess would be a social phobia, which at times leads to the same extreme behaviour as hikikomori does. And albeit it's a known disorder, I have the feeling it's not well publicized, usually only appearing in mass media when connected to acts of violence. After all, it seems to be a common western perception that (especially adolescents) have to be very outgoing, with tons of friends (or, as a teacher of mine put it "Shyness is extinct these days"...)

I don't think it's correct to say "While total social withdrawal seems to be mainly a Japanese phenomenon, [...]", implying that it would be very unusual to find such an individual in Western society, as it simply isn't. As a matter of fact, it doesn't require that much searching to find forums on the internet that are specifically for persons who suffer from extreme shyness and social isolation, respectively withdrawal and won't leave the house. Some of these forums have more than 1,000 members.

While certain aspects easily might be particular to Japanese society, the "Worldwide" section should have a (literally) more global and differentiated approach. In the least, I'd suggest to get rid of above sentence. -- Velour 05:50, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Errors

This article is riddled with errors:

1. It says "lifetime employment" no longer applies to new, incoming workers in Japan. Actually, "lifetime employment" is a misleading term that was originally coined by an American writer in Japan in the 1950s. The Japanese employment system is distinctly different from the Western "hire-and-fire" labor system and very much still in force in Japan, particularly at the large corporations. Far from being a Japanese cultural "tradition," as it is often portrayed in the U.S. media, the Japanese employment system is actually a relatively new system that only dates back to the 1950s. Not only is the system still alive and well, but it has actually been copied by other East Asian nations, from Taiwan to South Korea.

2. The article's author refers to "rote memorization" as still in common use in Japan's schools. Not true: rote memorization was in fact phased out 10 to 15 years ago as a common teaching tool. The system has recently gained some favorable press in Japan as some educators have considered using it again (as previous school reforms that phased out rote learning are now regarded as failures).

3. The article refers to Japan's supposed economic weakness and a "shaky job market." In fact, Japan's economy is actually doing quite well and continues to improve. And as far as the job market goes, Japan has a very low jobless rate (4.2 percent; lower than the U.S., in fact).

In my opinion, your points have some flaws. (1) Large corporations have lifetime employment, smaller ones less and less so. A newly employed worker cannot expect to have a lifetime job. (2) Memorization is still a main part of school (e.g. Kanji), and University entrance exams check more knowledge than understanding. In general, the Japanese Education system is very demanding and stressful, especially the entrance exams of Universities. (3) The economy is currently on an upturn, if this is sustainable has to be seen, although I am optimistic on this point. The Jobless rate given by the government is a fudged number, if you work only 1 hour a month then you're employed. Many young people do part time or low paying jobs (e.g. Convienient store staff) with no career options whatsoever.
Of course it is possible to discuss details, but the article is definitely not riddled with errors. -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


"[...] pornographic manga (which often called "hentai manga" in Western countries). [...]" I'm a little confused about why someone would infer that it's NOT referred to as h-manga in Japan and any other country, for that matter. That's its /name/, not just a western interpretation; am I wrong? --131.7.251.200 30 June 2005 16:33 (UTC)

You are correct, i changed the text. I linked it to Hentai, because H Manga is just a stub. Thanks for the tip -- Chris 73 Talk June 30, 2005 19:40 (UTC)
I thought "Hentai" was just not a word Japanese people would use to refer to pornographic material... 84.137.18.70 21:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
It means "pervert". But you often see prurient items marked/branded with an "H" here. - 219.165.164.126 06:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Case question

In the Controversy section of the article, there's this: "In the coming days, the media reported other extremely violent cases as perpetrated by hikikomori, such as one man who kidnapped a young girl and held her captive for nine years". Which case was that (and could I have a link to an article)? I'd heard of Nevada-tan, the bus hijacker and the serial killer but the only one I can think of that fits this description is the Tanya Nicole Kach case, except Ms. Kach was held captive for ten years.

If I missed it in the external links, let me know. Thanks! - Jaguara 22:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The girls name is Fusako Sano (e.g. http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archive/news/2004/12/20041229p2g00m0dm999000c.html, or do a google search) -- Chris 73 | Talk 22:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! Jaguara Jaguara 04:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Now with article: Sano Fusako -- Chris 73 | Talk 10:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Autism Spectrum Disorders and Hikionmori

Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD's) are 2.95 times more prevalent in Japan than in the UK and the US. In Japan, 2.1% of the population have an Autism Spectrum Disorder compared to ca. 0.70% in the UK and US. This is exceptionally high and should be taken into account.

I have little doubt that much of the Hikionmori phenomenon is due to people with ASD's interacting with Japanese scociety/culture. The intense claustrophobic overcrowding - combined with social pressure to conform, educational pressures to do well, feelings of failure and shame...experienced by young people with ASD’s, modify the expression of their ASD into a Japanese subtype that appears to emphasise social withdrawal.

I have mild Asperger's Syndrome. But as a Teen my AS became far more pronounced, due to hormonal changes. I withdrew into my room, only left my house to go to school and during summer breaks I left my house perhaps once every month or less. I became, in my parent’s words, a House Hermit. I collected minerals and studied astronomy all day. I experienced Hikikomori.

Sumi,Satoshi, Taniai,Hiroko, Miyachi,Taishi & Tanemura,Mitsuyo, 2006. Sibling risk of pervasive developmental disorder estimated by means of an epidemiologic survey in Nagoya, Japan. Journal of Human Genetics, Vol. 51, Pages 518-522, http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10038-006-0392-7, DOI 10.1007/s10038-006-0392-7

Diamond Dave 22/08/2006 15:23

[edit] I'm confused

"The Girl A case, or Tsutomu Miyazaki who in 1989 killed 4 girls to reenact scenes of his pornographic hentai manga."


The Girl A case and Tsutomu Miyazaki are two completely different cases. This sentence doesn't make sense. I'ld also like to see the citation for the whole hentai manga thing.Ziiv 05:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


  1. Agreed. The article for Tsutomu_Miyazaki does not make any mention of scenes being reinacted from hentai manga. It DOES mention that one of the murders was based on a scene from one of the "Guinea Pig" movies. Unless a legit citation can be found validating the current sentance, I believe it should be changed. (In addition, I also initially believed that the sentance was stating that Tsutomu Miyazaki was responsible for the Girl A case; this should be fixed. And since the Girl A case did not involve any hikikomori, it should be noted in referencing the case that, while paralells have been drawn between Girl A's actions and hikikomori behavior, that neither Girl A nor the classmate she killed are examples of hikikomori.) --134.173.91.63 00:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Re-do

this author seems to be projecting many things into the article about japan, gathering facts to fit his own opinion. Alot of these ideas such as the "memorisation" education system, are simply common misperceptions.

--Sunawave 06:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)Sunawave

[edit] Proposed addition to "World Wide" occurence of 'hikikomori'

This article is based on gross misinformation and stereotypes. At the very least it should be recognized that

(1) the "one million" figure has no basis whatsoever in fact. Saito Tamaki has admitted in his Japanese language autobiography that he simply made the number up to draw attention to the problem;

(2) the "one million" figure is demographically implausible in the extreme. You simply could not have 20 percent of youth (and the youth market) locked up in their rooms without it producing a major impact on all sorts of industries.

After an immense amount of hype about the subject in Japan five or six years ago, hikikomori has largely dropped off the social radar screen. After hikikomori was given official recognition as a syndrome, the number of reported cases turned out to be in the low thousands. Even if there are 10 times as many who do not seek treatment as those who do, hikikomori would still be a very, very minor pschological or social pathology.

More than anything, this article demonstrates the credulity of foreigners, their willigness to believe almost any assertion that the Japanese are somehow radically different from Western norms. Others have described it as "riddled with errors." Indeed, it is, but it is also riddled with stereotypes and complete and utter nonsense.

There seems to be a good market in the US for books such as Shutting Out the Sun that portray hikikomori as one of the social pathologies that is leading Japan to self-destruction. The popularity of this nonsense simply demonstrates that foreign observers, especially American observers, have "a thing" about the Japanese and a desperate need to show that Japan suffers from a greater variety of more serious social ills than do other countries, especially the United States.

As an American who divides his time between Britain and Japan and as one who deals with 18-25 year old Japanese on a daily basis to say nothing of being a specialist in the social history of modern Japan, I must say, even if it violates talk page guidelines, that the article as it currently stands, is almost entirely rubbish.

Ehk 21:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How is this a subculture?

Why is this included in the "Japanese subcultures" infobox? It's not a subculture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drcwright (talk • contribs) 07:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC).


Subculture in this context should be understood as cultural phenomenon. In this framework, the article belongs clearly in this category. LHOON 08:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it clearly belongs. Cultural phenomenon is not synonymous with subculture. This also appears to be more of a syndrome or disorder -- not a group that a person voluntarily identifies with. Drcwright 21:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay... I'm going to remove this from the Japanese Subcultures infobox unless there's a good argument to keep it included. ALSO: I think the Japanese Subcultures box should be a template so it can be edited at a single point of access, rather than having to go to each article. No? 07:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I"m agreeing that it doesn't belong. ADD diagnosis is a cultural phenomenon in the United States, but that doesn't make ADD a "subculture." All of the others have identifiable common characteristics of style and culture. this one is only joined by mental disorder. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 18:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, to include all subcultures and (youth) cultural phenomena, also otaku should belong in the list! I am still in favour of keeping the hikikomori in the list as a typical Japanese phenomenon (probably change the title of the box accordingly to Japanese youth culture phenomena or something), and, put the box at the bottom of the page as suggested before! LHOON 21:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The template is very nice now, and with hikikomori in the "see also" section it would be nice to include it here in the bottom. LHOON 09:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hikikomori freedom

It's such a beautiful life to be a Hikikomori, the only reason is that we prefer this life, instead of the hell of the no-geek people at work, all my friends are like that ( me included ), and we are not japanese, but french, more and more young people are like that in France. American films, japanese mangas, american tv shows, Mcdonald's and so on... young french love the globalization ( french who don't like the american or the globalization don't exist, this is a myth, or maybe some old guys in some little villages ). Allowed are the video games and the hikikomori life-style ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.251.188.194 (talk) 10:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Japanese development?

Thank you to everyone who has worked on this article; it has definitely grown and expanded since I last looked at it a few weeks ago. But I am curious if anyone could create a section describing further why or how this is a uniquely Japanese phenomenon. It's not a psychological condition or disease; it's truly a cultural & social development which can therefore not happen in the same way in other cultures. I think the story of the Omani man is very interesting, but I think that the kneejerk response of assuming that all shut-ins in other countries fall under the umbrella of "hikikomori" and that it could not possibly be a uniquely Japanese development is not a correct one. Shut-ins, geeks, otaku (whether by the Japanese meaning, or the American meaning), are terms which represent a great many types of people. Some are depressed, some are not. Some are shy, some are not. Some choose to live their lives this way as a result of certain stimuli or causes, others live their lives this way because of the absence of stimuli or causes to act differently. And my impression is that "hikikomori", as represented in Shutting Out the Sun, and other books and articles, is very much a Japanese phenomenon, not only because of its causes, and its symptoms (manifestations) but also because of the way society deals with them. I feel bad to speak of American culture or Western culture because those are very large generalizations, but for the sake of argument I will say that the average Western home, or stereotypical Western home, will not deal with a hikikomori-type in the same way as a Japanese would; Americans seek help in a variety of ways, while Japanese seek to hide any source of abnormality in their family lives from the community, out of a fear of being shamed in public. And that is just as important to the phenomenon as anything else.

I have spent the better part of the last three weeks in my dorm room, associating with no one, sometimes not even leaving my room for 72+ hours except to go to the kitchen, interacting with the world only through Wikipedia, LJ and the like, and keeping waking/sleeping hours according to no natural or regular schedule. Does that make me a hikikomori? Would I be one if I were shier or lazier or quieter or more depressed than I am? No. Because being an American in a dorm room in London is not the same as being a Japanese teen or adult living in his parent's house... it's not only a different living situation and social situation, but also a completely different cultural sitation in the wider sense of how the hikikomori views the world, and how his family view him, and the rest of their world.

Anyway, I apologize for going on for so long, and so expressing such a direct view. I do not mean to start any arguments, or to stir up trouble or whatever. I just think it would an interesting thing to see discussed - surely these sources have addressed that question as well? LordAmeth 01:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agorophobia?

The hikikomori sound somewhat similiar to those suffering from agorophobia, I'm not on expert on either but I'm wondering if someone who is could tell me if there's any relation? Jztinfinity 03:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

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