Talk:Hide (musician)

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Contents 1 American "rerelease" 2 Death speculation - worth including? 3 Regarding Zilch 4 Trivia 5 rewrite 6 gravesite location 7 hide's birth date 8 Expansion 9 Confirmation 10 Capitalize "Hide" 11 Genre 12 Massive Edit 13 death place 14 Organization 15 New information about hide 16 X Japan 17 Surf Guitar 18 Merge with Saver Tiger article 19 X Japan info Box 20 Recent persistent edit 21 Songwriting 22 Hide's education 23 Recent edits

[edit] American "rerelease"

What's this I'm reading about Pink Spider being released in America? Is there a citation for that?

~ I've heard that rumor but have found no proof of it. The mainstream label that the single was recently re-released on us Universal, but no Universal Music website has hide or Spread Beaver listed. Someone might just have gotten confused because US Kinokunia stores and the like carry it. -- lone I.N.A. fan

- I suggest this "re-release" be removed, as it may be a mix up. Pink Spider has recently been covered by the Japanese band "RIZE", and thus released in Japan. A few weeks ago it was around number 9 on the Oricon Charts, and Universal do have a Japanese branch. I can find no sources to back up this re-release in America, it seems a bad and costly move (unless released on Itunes, which it has not as of yet).

[edit] Death speculation - worth including?

I read a few articles from news papers covering his death back in 1998 and some of them contained quotes from friends of hide. One of those included a drinking buddy who he drank with on the night of his death, who claims that hide's heavy drinking (and possible alcoholism) was much increased after the break up of X, and he was noted for saying things while drunk such as "I have lost my purpose in life" etc.

Could it be worth looking into these things and maybe including them on the article? hide was a heavy drinker and smoker, and possibly an alcoholic and later a depressive after the breakup of X. Alcohol is a depressant, so surely these thoughts must have been amplified when drunk - thus leading to his suicide.

[edit] Regarding Zilch

I have been doing a little work on the Zilch article recently, so if anyone has any extra information or can just help me keep it tidy and orderly that would be dandy. But my point is that on the hide article Zilch is referred to as an "American Collaberation". I believe this to be wrong, as the group was formed by hide and was based in Japan through the groups entirety. Even though it was mainly populated with Americans, hide, I.N.A and later J were the leading members, based on this I have changed it. --JinecouO.N.E 16:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Okay, I'm all for spreading the love of hide -- but is there any truth -- or proof that hide OR Yoshiki starred in an amatuer version of Jesus Christ Superstar? I have deleted this trivia -- revert the page if you can find truth or a source.

[edit] rewrite

This article is slowly becoming more list then article. I'm going to start a rewrite. Post any ideas here.--The one who watches over hide's articles. 03:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, you should do somthing like, first talk about early years, then about the role in X and other things that happened during he was in X, then a part for hi solo career, and other about musical facts and the death.

A sudden increase in work hours, school work, and college prep has caused me to delay the rewrite. I'm sorry--The one who watches over hide's articles. 18:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] gravesite location

would you fellow hide fans consider details concerning this to be article worthy? --The one who watches over hide's articles. 01:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC) I think it would be worth it. I am sure fans would want to know about the grave location for the purposes of visit, so if for nothing else than increasing local tourism, you can do that... Other Galaxy 22:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)Galaxy

It all depends on how intense you make the information...specific directions are not necessary, but a general "It's in this town" would probably be fine. Vespertilio

I'm trying to find the name of the cemetary, I'll put up something about it when I find out.

[edit] hide's birth date

Can anybody confirm whether hide was born on December 13 or on December 19? It seems that sites with his biography name equally one date or the other.

By the way, some expansion of the article would be great, if anybody has the knowledge and free time and can do it. --xDCDx 12:52, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

I just put a big chunk into the Musical Facts section, I believe there all right, I may have missesd some minor details, might come back and add more later

[edit] Confirmation

hide was born December 13th. This can be confirmed easily by looking at his gravestone.

[edit] Capitalize "Hide"

What is the purpose of having his nickname uncapitalized? Stylistic decision or limitation of technical equipment? --Duemellon 14:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

hide was his nickname, perhaps even his stagename. It was simply what he wanted to be called, I suppose, and the h was never capitalized. It should be respected and left as it is. 204.49.99.63 10:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

i think it should still be capitalized if at the beginning of a sentence... -Xornok 05:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

On the Hide vs hide discussion, I would be inclined to think that it's more reasonable to leave it with non-capitalized letter, as it was a name that he himself had preferred, we should respect personal choices regarding names, they are one of the integral parts of who we are... even if the person is dead.

Other Galaxy 20:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)One Who Cares/ OG.

If it is a name, it is a proper noun. A proper noun starts with a CAPITAL LETTER. - Stickler for details.

Okay, Hideto Matsumoto is his proper name, therefore is a proper noun. hide is his stage name, or his nickname, therefore is not necessarily a proper noun.

A nickname is still a proper noun. I really feel that the h should be capitalised, especially at the begining of a sentence. I have a suggestion; have a brief explanation on the spelling using the lower case, but use the capital letter for the rest of the article. - Stickler for details.

If you where a strickler for details, you'd allow hide to be written correctly, it stays lower case --The one who watches over hide's articles. 12:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Your reply doesn’t make any sense. If it stays lower case, a first time reader may have to go over the same sentence twice just to realize that 'hide' is a name. I had that problem, thats why I came to this page. I did not know when the sentence ended or started. I had already mentioned that it is a proper noun and should start with a capital letter, and all I get in the reply is a stubborn NO. - Stickler for details.

The first sentance of the article explains what hide means.

Fine, let's leave it this way, I understand the reasons you mentioned and even if I wouldn't, personally, agree with them, we should have it viewable to broadest number of viewers if possible, hide written as Hide could work then. -OtherGalaxy

Standard English usage is to capitalise words at the beginning of sentences; that's independent of how they're normally written. Killerclaw may feel stroingly about this, but strong feelings don't trump correctness. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:NC is pretty clear on this kind of issue, stylized typography is not to be carried over to Wikipedia (note the Korn example). But there's certainly no harm in mentioning the lowercase typesetting in the article's first paragraph. - Cyrus XIII 19:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Proper names are usually capitalised, but a person's preference takes precedence over normal typographical rules. This isn't a matter for individual editors at this page to decide. The normal approach of most publications is to respect the individual's choice of typography, capitalising only when the name occurs at the beginning of a sentence. We should go along with this in the absence of a specific Wikipedia guideline. Cyrus XIII's point doesn't apply here; not only are we not dealing with an album or band name, but WP:NC#Album titles and band names doesn't deal with this question (using an initial lowercase is at least not obviously included in the notion of stylised typography). I've left a message at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (capital letters), however, inviting discussion. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Regrettably this message has not rendered any new input, but a quite decent source has surfaced in the meantime. Seeing that an established publication like the New York Times, in an article written by noted author and journalist Neil Strauss does not copy the lowercase h, I suggest we can can consider this a professional enough approach, well in line with the manual of stlye (particularly WP:MOS-TM) and not at all disrespectful. - Cyrus XIII 00:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• First, one usage by one newspaper doesn't constitute grounds for changing our adherence to normal English usage. Note that when E.E. Cummings's name was habitually written in lower-case (it doesn't matter why), all respectable newspapers, magazines, and books respected that usage.
• Secondly, your other changes to the article included some rather clumsy constructions, the unexplained removal of information from the infobox, and an incorrect change from "BastardEYES" to "Bastard Eyes" (in the latter case, what to do with the capitals is up for discussion (I'm not sure what the answer is), but it's certainly not one word, as Googling reveals). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Now this kind of a strange example, since our article on Mr. Cummings states (with references), that this capitalization eccentricity was a fabrication of publishers which he did not even endorse. You are indeed right though about that remix album's title being one word, but then the preferable way of writing it here would be Bastardeyes (in accordance with WP:MUSTARD).

In any case, I am putting in for a third opinion, because I do not think it is up to you alone to decide whether the manual of style's formatting guidelines regarding trademarks do apply to personal/stage names or not and your overall highly dismissive attitude towards the contributions of other users, be it me or Vespertilio (ever heard of "don't bite the newbies"?) is becoming more and more of a problem. My recent edits contained several sound additions, like the removal of uncited or apparently disputed information (reason for closure of the museum, place of death), the rephrasing of a few sentences to avoid POV/more factual issues ("stardom", "influential Japanese group") and the addition of several wiki links to existing and related articles. - Cyrus XIII 11:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid that you didn't read what I wrote carefully enough (and our article oversimplifies matters, as the document to which I link at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (capital letters) demonstrates); it doesn't matter why people thought that he wrote his name like that, the point is that they did think so, and they respected it.

I don't know why you think that removing material for whiuch citations have been requested is a good idea, and "influential Japanese group" seem to be borne out by material here and elsewhere.

The claim that I'm setting myself up as the sole authority on capitalisation here is peculiar, given that I asked for opinions at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (capital letters), and have renewed that request.

Placing yourself in the same category as Vespertillo is unwise, I'd have thought; still, that's up to you. I'll continue to argue on the basis of the edits and the article, and leave the personal attacks to the pair of you. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I will not comment on such insinuations and I still believe that in the absence of an explicit exception from Wikipedia:Proper names#Personal names and with a related guideline like WP:MOS-TM#Trademarks which begin with a lowercase letter in place, capitalizing this artist's stage name would be entirely appropriate. - Cyrus XIII 13:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Cyrus. The first letter of the name should be capitalised. That is basic grammar. That is what gets us grades in school. Being a personal preference, in my opinion is just POV. If 'hide' is his name, ok. But when we write it, it should be Hide, because it is a proper noun, plain and simple. When somebody says his name, they say "His name is Hide," and not "His name is Hide with a lower case h." There is no need to invent a new style guide to appeal to the name. Doing that just makes the whole concept of wikipedia POV. If it was his personal preference to write his name as hide we cannot do anything about it. - Stickler for details (2/2/7)

[edit] Genre

Given that the term visual kei does hardly communicate any characteristics of an artist's/a band's music, I have changed the genre in the infobox to alternative rock for now. It encompasses the experimental angle, the occasional punk influences and the use of electronics found on Hide Your Face, Psyence and Ja, Zoo quite well. - Cyrus XIII 05:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Massive Edit

Okay, so I just did quite a fearsome edit. Cleaned up a bunch of the english, changed facts to be more...factual...and seperated things into the sections they should've been in.

Any Complaints? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.4.24.73 (talk • contribs) 00:02, 14 January 2007.

I'm afraid that the English wasn't improved (and a lot of stylistic errors were introduced); also, the additions weren't sourced. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 00:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] death place

hide died in tokyo not in los angeles —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.57.23.2 (talk) 12:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

He's right, look what I found: http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/98/0522/feat1.html There's also a lot of info in there about hide's role and popularity in X Japan. Information which isn't present in X Japan article, which I think would make a nice addition to this one. Vespertilio 01:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

I'm afraid I don't understand why the organization was reverted. The "X Japan" section has a single sentence with information pertaining to hide's time in X Japan, and then talks about his solo career, followed by some random tidbits of information after the 4th paragraph. Apparently this isn't "Trivia", so what should it be? And just as an aside question, why does it seem like the editors watching over this article prefer to keep the article as it is, rather than edit to a higher level of quality? Vespertilio 15 January 2007

Why is it that everyone thinks that whatever they do raises the quality of an article, so that any revert is conservatism for its own sake?

The change introduced some style errors (concerning capitalisation), and put a lot of non-trivia items into a Trivia section, such as his starring in a film, his involvement in medical-aid foundations, the winning of an award, etc. (and Trivia sections are deprecated by many people here, so it's best to avoid them if possible). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think organizatin is a bad thing? My question was, why do you seem to refuse to change my changes to something better (since apparently I'm not helping at all), rather than just revert it to the rather mediocre article we have now? Isn't that what wikipedia is all about? People working togeather to make a better resource, rather than bickering over style? And how is the starring in a film, involvement in medical-aid foundations, winning awards, etc. not Trivia? If you want to call it Misc. info, that's fine, change my headers to that and you're good to go. I'm not really sure where the capitalization errors were, unless you mean in the headers, and if that was the case, I have to return to my original question. Why not do some research? You and Cyrus appear to be the only ones with any real grasp on wikipedia style, yet both of you seem to spend your time reverting. Just an observeration. Vespertilio

I did change your changes to something better; I reverted to the way that the article was. And there's nothing I can say about the claim that those things are trivial, except hope that you're in a tiny minority. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The notable instruments section of the infobox, first, is for notable instruments, not just everything a musician played (see Template:Infobox musical artist), and secondly, must be given a source. The external link might have counted as a source, but together it all looked like advertising. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

the contention that the original article is a superior version seems a little ludicrous to me, but since a rever twar seems like a bit of a waste of time, I'm still going to have to wonder on why you don't move foreward ever. My edit looked like an advertisement? You're right, I'm sorry, I can see how it would look like that. So, why not edit my edits so that they aren't an advertisement? It would've been a simple copy and paste, more more than 20 keystrokes. The article would be better, and if I attempted to turn it back into an ad, you could show off your obviously fanstastic skill at reverting.

Also, just for information's sake, the instruments I had listed in the notable instruments section are the more notable instruments hide owned. He owned 13 guitars, but those are the ones he used most frequently.Vespertilio 2:21, 17 January 2007

You seem to be stuck in sarcasm mode — tiring and pointless. I'll only say, then, that "notable instruments" does not mean "instruments he used most often".--Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for my earlier sarcasm, it was uncalled for and rude. I do, however, really think we need a little bit more organization in this article. My biggest complaint is the six random blurbs of information in the solo section. They don't flow at all and belong in their own section. I put them under "Trivia" originally. I believe you took that as me undermining their importance (which would be a crime, at least in the case of the child from the make a wish foundation). But the information does seem to me to fit under the trivia definition of being information that would be used "almost exclusively for answering quiz questions". I wouldn't really have a problem putting it under a section like "Misc. Info" or something, how about that?Vespertilio 20:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New information about hide

I've just added new info about hide, all the info comes from his official site (www.hide-city.com), the section is this one: http://www.hide-city.com/free/biography/1964-1986.html it's in japanese, you can check this: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/ and translete the hide's page and you'll see that the info is true, I hope that it won'e removed so all the info comes from an official site. Take care. Darkcat21 16:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

My own feeling is that most of the information is unnecessary (why should the reader care at what age he got his driving license, etc.?), but what do other editors think? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well you can check articles like Paul McCartney there's lot info like this and it's not removed, I don't know, but if it's true you must keep the info and it's not just "the drivers license" it's his life, and yes it looks like i'm only citing the sentence about the license, i was citing all the paragraph actually. Darkcat21 16:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I was also thinking about his birth weight (which I felt strongly enough about to delete), his years at kindergarten, etc. It all seems a bit too obsessive for an encyclopædia article, though apt for a fan site. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] X Japan

Uhm, so, the X Japan section just talks about X Japan, and makes almost no mention of hide. The article about his death that I threw up includes information about his popularity within X. I'm gonna change it, clean up as necessary. Vespertilio 05:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Surf Guitar

I apologize for removing the surf guitar link without any explanation. I did this because, while it does say on the album jacket for Ja, Zoo that hide was playing Surf Guitar, a quick listen to any track on the album reveals that the guitar playing is anything but surf guitar (heavy distortion, songs that have nothing to do with surfing), not to mention that a quick look at the sheet music throws into question whether hide was playing much guitar at all anyway. I'd support that second statement with a source, but the site that had scans of the sheet music uploaded is down, apologies. Vespertilio 20:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

In that case it sounds as though removing the reference to surf guitar rather than just the link would be the best thing to do. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess. I'm not really opposed to that, but if the artist says he's playing something, should we respect that, or does it fall under the same kind of jurisdiction as things like how he spelled his name? Vespertilio 01:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd say that we respect his mistake by not mentioning it. If the term is included, then it should be linked; the argument against it isn't for unlinking but for removal. I haven't heard the album, but I'm happy to trust someone who has, and if you say that he doesn't play surf guitar, then we shouldn't say that he does. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Saver Tiger article

This article appears to be little more than a rehash of a particular passage of this one, along with three more entries for the discography and an unverified (?) logo. Furthermore, Saver/Saber Tiger would probably not be considered notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia without their most prominent member's later career. - Cyrus XIII 14:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I can agree with that, though I should ask, could we transfer over the Saver Tiger logo? The hide page seems lacking in pictures to me. Though maybe we should just get some of him in X Japan and such. Vespertilio 17:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

If what's meant is to merge Saver Tiger with this article (rather than vice versa), then fine. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, done. - Cyrus XIII 18:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] X Japan info Box

Should we change this to the hide infobox? Why is there a hide infobox anyway? There isn't so much for there to be information on him, but I noticed on the album pages that there is a hide infobox.Vespertilio 20:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, all articles on former X Japan members should probably have that template in place and since this one here already has a discography section, the second template would be redundant. - Cyrus XIII 20:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The second template is supposed to be for hide only. But given the meger handful of albums, it seems a little unnecessary anyway, does anyone have any reason why we should keep it around?Vespertilio 06:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

It does a good job at keeping the related articles (three albums, 13 singles, probably all the compilations in the future) together. I've seen unifying templates for fewer pages. - Cyrus XIII 06:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent persistent edit

The inexpoicable insistence on re-adding "hide owned a shop in tokyo named 'LEMONed'" has to stop. No only does it contain three errors of formatting, but it's unsourced, and almost completely uninformative (a sweet shop? a bicycle repair shop?). If someone has a source for it, then fine (in that case, I'll correct the English). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:24, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Mel Etitis on this one and I would also like to point out that an abundance of information provided in the article is currently unsourced, including the entire Trivia section (which in itself is somewhat less than ideal for a biographical article). - Cyrus XIII 12:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

hide owned a shop, but the shop if i'm not wrong it's still open. http://www.hide-city.com/lemonedshop/shop.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.184.81.239 (talk) 13:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Songwriting

I can understand the need for a citation in the first sentence, and actually wouldn't mind terribly if it was deleted, but I'm not sure I follow the need for a citation on the rest. One with basic training in songwriting formats and a copy of the CDs can hear and identify what I've written Vespertilio 01:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

That's precisely the point; it's original research. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 09:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

If I may raise an article with a similar presentation, I'd like to bring your attention to the Mozart article. The analysis of his style is orders of magnitude more complex and in-depth than mine, and lists absolutely no sources on the ideas presented. I have read over the Original Research page and see no mention of declaring facts. Varying use of structure and introductions that involve melodies are not "arguements", they are verifiable with a quick listen to any of his albums. If you really want, I can name a specific song and site the bandscores once again. Vespertilio 02:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Citing another article that has the same problems doesn't help. I can only repeat the problem, and add WP:CITE. If you think that I'm wrong in my interpretation, you could add the article to WP:RFC. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 21:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hide's education

Anybody have list of schools he attended, or know about Japanese [web] pages that would list it so?

Is this information really necessary? If he had attended college, I could understand putting the information up. But, do many people care that he attended high school, or rather, where he attended high school? The part about the brass band is interesting, and is liked to his success, but I still don't see a reason to name high schools.Vespertilio 17:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I had asked here why this information was included, and noone responded so I removed it. Vespertilio 05:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The information is verifiable and a genuine part of his biography; I'd have said that it was a lot less trivial than much of what appears in these fanzine-style articles (for example, I'd have removed that chunk of graveside maundering, myself). --Mel Etitis (Talk) 09:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

What does it matter what high school he went to? The biography article states "As opposed to a profile or curriculum vitae, a biography develops a complex analysis of personality, highlighting different aspects of it and including intimate details of experiences. A biography is more than a list of impersonal facts like birth, education, work, relationships and death. It also delves into the emotions of experiencing such events." A Person looking up hide on wikipedia does not gain a more complex picture of his character by reading what random high school in yokosuka he went to. The information on him joining the high school band is interesting and important, since it highlights early experience with music, the prime impact of his career and fame. The high school's name is only important if the high school is signifigant for some reason, and at the moment, there is no signifigance stated. Vespertilio 20:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't help me; it might help someone who knows Japanese schools. Why delete genuine information? A biography might be more than details of education, etc., but that doesn't mean that it should exclude details of education. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits

A detailed rationale for everyone who requires it:

• There appears to be some confusion regarding record labels. Both Amazon and Last FM mention Toha and MCA/Universal but not Sony.
• Wikipedia, along with all modern operating systems support Unicode, so directly entered dashes are favorable over cryptic/deprecated HTML stand-ins.
• Our Manual of Style explicitly requires proper names to be capitalized, along with by and large discouraging stylized typography in general. To ensure a productive process, I would like to encourage everyone not content with this to pursue respective changes on guideline and policy level, as opposed to blocking the application of current guideline text and the wider consensus behind it on article level.
• Since the Saver Tiger project no longer has its own article, listing it for convenience in the infobox has no merit.
• Given that the use of trivia sections is not undisputed, it is worth pointing out that the one in this article is also completely unreferenced.

- Cyrus XIII 01:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

1. There has, and still is (as Cyrus XIII knows) disagreement concerning the capitalisation of names that the user doesn't capitalise. I'm unaware of any consensus.
2. The MoS itself uses HTML dashes in its examples; they're much easier to distinguish in the editing box, while being indistinguishable from Unicode dashes in articles.
3. Please use the {{unreferenced}} template properly. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 10:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Complementing, I am also unaware of any strict rule that imposes the removal stylized names. On contraire, it seems that the current consesnsus is to use capitalization in a manner as close as possible to whatever name is more widespread or more correct. So regardless of what the user thinks looks better or whatever, the capitalization will stay as it is, unless a strong consensus is reached on that general subject. --Sn0wflake 23:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)