Talk:Hiberno-Norman

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This is more like it, although it should be plural: Hiberno-Normans. The section covering the Normans in Ireland should by right be under this heading rather than 'Anglo-Normans'. There are many, many reasons why this should be the case. In the first place, most Normans came from Wales, not England and thus the epithet 'Cambro-Normans' is used to describe them by leading late medievalists such as Seán Duffy. Furthermore, contrary to common belief the term 'Old English' only came into use to describe them in 1580- i.e. over four centuries after the first Normans arrived in Ireland. In addition, if they were Anglo-Normans four centuries after arriving in Ireland (from Wales!) can we hear more about the "Norman-English" 400 years after 1066? It is ahistorical in the extreme to deny the very Hiberno-Norman cultural and political world they developed in these centuries and hide it under the simplistic misnomer, "Anglo-Normans". To simplify my argument somewhat: while not all Normans, or even a majority of them, in Ireland were of English/Anglo origin, all those of Norman descent in Ireland were Hiberno-Normans.

It would be well worth while adding that to the article, please - I'm sure you would prefer to copyedit it yourself. Provide you can cite the references, you should certainly look at correcting any existing use of Anglo-norman in existing category:History of Ireland articles.

(Wiki convention is always to use the singular, and to form the plural like this [[Hiberno-Norman]]s, which produces "Hiberno-Normans"). --Red King 13:51, 5 October 2005 (UTC)