Talk:Hiberno-English

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Contents

[edit] Dublin, Cork and Kerry accents

I was looking at the list of English dialects in Wikipedia, which is very logically sub-divided. Under "Ireland" I then found Hiberno-English and came to this article. So I expected to then find the different 'dialects' of English as spoken in Ireland listed. When reading this article, however, it mentioned Dublin and says that the accents here differ from the rest of the country, and it mentions Cork and again says the accents differ from the rest of the country. It doesn't mention other accents. I'm not sure if the implication is that Dublin and Cork are exceptions, and the rest of the country all speaks a similar brand of 'Hiberno-English? I think this article could benefit from at least breaking down the dialects/accents in Ireland (i.e. Republic of Ireland as I assume Northern Ireland is covered under the UK), and ensuring that every area in Ireland is covered. I would suggest, for a start, that the distinctive Kerry accent should be kept separate from other accents. I think there may be a distinctive Donegal accent too, but I'm not sure about that. I know it's difficult because the accents just merge into one another as you travel around Ireland, but you do have that problem in every country. At the very least could I suggest that the accents be divided into the Cork accent, the Kerry accent, the rest of the country except Dublin, and then Dublin could be divided into two, the general Dublin accent, and the very pronounced accent you hear in the markets in central Dublin (the Dublin equivalent of 'Cockney'). What do others think? 82.35.15.212 06:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I gather dialects in the wild exhibit differences every 1 or 2 hundred miles; mass media and other factors interfere with that pattern. The way Hiberno-English seems set up as a discipline the interest is Irishness rather than dialect I think Hakluyt bean 02:03, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please define airing cupboard.

what is "airing cupboard", "airing cupboard"?

As Time Goes By.

Thank You.

hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 18:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

airing cupboard. hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 21:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a cupboard (or press in Hiberno-English) over the water heater/boiler where the likes of bedclothes and towels are put after drying to "air" them. Donnacha 22:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What a mess

This article is a hotch-potch of hunches, factoids, urban legend and folk-linguistic speculation, combined with lists of various favourite words and phrases, the whole misleadingly presented as reliable information. It reads like an article on plant physiology written by an accountant who fancies he has green fingers. It's in desperate need of attention, if not top-to-bottom rewriting, by a linguist (as opposed to an enthusiastic amateur) who has actually systematically studied Hiberno-English on the basis of the wealth of scholarship that's been done over the last century and more. Someone who won't, for example, confuse phonemes with letters, writing things like "'r' is pronounced wherever it occurs in the word".

For fecks sake this is wikipedia! If you want stuff like that go to Brittannica.
I agree this entry is a mess, although it's generally more incomplete than incorrect. Also, there's some historical dialect features that are fairly anachronistic in modern speech (the herd/bird/curd and hoarse/horse splits are pretty rare in most modern dialects--they mostly merge the same way the Americans and British do). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.73.95.84 (talk) 20:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC).
This may be Wikipedia, but it should still be accurate as possible. This seems odd for an article on Hiberno English, as there must be a large number of formal (primary and secondary textbook) references on it (my Syntax textbook used it to demonstrate differences from standard English syntax). -- Jim Witte —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.9.143.221 (talk) 01:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Langerhead

""Langer" is a variant used especially in Cork but has began to spread through the rest of the country."

Langer originates with Irish soldiers in the english army stationed in India. Langar monkeys would wake them at all hours and throw crap at them so langar became a term of abuse. This was imported to Cork on their return. Check out http://langerland.com .

corrected the link (ar to er) Hakluyt bean 17:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Langar monkey business

If Langar monkeys were a menace to the English army to the point where it became a term of abuse among them, then it's a bit baffling why the term survived only in Cork. I'd like a source on this etymology. It sounds like one of those top-of-the-head folk etymologies based on the coincidence of two like-sounding words.

[edit] Langur monkey

As far as I know, the term 'langer' isn't very common in any area other than Cork, although I've heard it being used in Dublin once or twice. Although I'm not absolutely sure of this, apparently, the reason the term 'langer' is common in Cork, is that the term was particularly popular with troops originating from Cork, who were stationed in India. It was originally a reference to the langur monkey's tail, which to the troops, appeared to have a phallic shape. Mushed 17:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] That's enough Langers

http://www.corkslang.com/ :

  • A disagreeable person - Derivation: Unknown, but note 'Élang' - a defect, flaw, weak spot. (Joynt and Knott)
  • A penis - Derivation: Unknown, but 'Langur' - a long tailed monkey from India. (Concise Oxford Dictionary) Note influence of the Munster Fusiliers.
  • Drunk - Derivation: Unknown Hakluyt bean 17:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "English"

Reading the article I see an awful lot of places where some Hiberno-English feature is set in contrast to "English"; except that the HE feature is shared with some or all dialects of American English. I assume that these were entered by someone who lives in Britain or elsewhere in the Commonwealth, but we should be careful about this sort of thing.

Also, we need to work on citing a whole lot more stuff in here. /blahedo (t) 18:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Hot news tense"?

Can somebody confirm that the "hot news tense" and "warm news tense" really exist? Do they have a more correct linguistic name? -- Strib 04:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

"hot news perfect" is from McCawley, James D. (1971), "Tense and Time reference in English", in Charles J. Fillmore and D. Terence Langendoen, Studies in linguistic semantics, New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, ISBN 0030852676:
The present perfect in English has the following uses:
(a) to indicate that a state of affairs prevailed throughout some interval streching from the past into the present (Universal):
(31) I’ve known Max since 1960.
(b) to indicate the existence of past events (Existential):
(32) I have read Principia Mathematica five times.
(c) to indicate that the direct effect of a past event still continues (Stative):
(33) I can’t come to your party tonight - I’ve caught the flu.
(d) to report hot news (Hot news):
(34) Malcom X has just been assassinated.

"Hot news perfect" is a questionable category in general. It is still commonly used, but always in quotes; the term "perfect of recent past" (which is slightly different) is used instead by some. The suggestion the "after doing" in HE is used only for this form of the perfect, not for any others, is even more questionable. "Warm news perfect" looks like something a Wikipedian made up. The point about "hot news" is not the hotness but the newness; it emphasises the past act rather than its present relevance. jnestorius(talk) 16:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] a bit racist

i think this is a bit racist, it seems to be full of prejudiced. although some of the stuff is correct, when writing irish english you dont need to write things like 'awk, aye, twil twil twil' and things like that. this should be changed to be more like standard english but without losing the hiberno enlighs aspect —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daniel625 (talk • contribs) 21:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Etymologies

"Knacker Derived from the Gaelic 'eachaire' meaning a horse handler..."

Come on ... English Knacker - horse dealer etc.

The Hiberno-English Archive [1] suggests "n. someone dealing in horses (for excessive profit); pejor. a person involved in shady deals (cf. knack n. a trick, a device); (pejor.) a member of the travelling community; an impotent man < E dial. origin obscure." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.135.197.245 (talk) 10:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

knacker (n, vb) A dealer in old horses and other livestock. Scan. It formerly meant a saddler and harness maker. Ice. knakkr (saddle). Now used as a verb in colloquial E to indicate anything spoilt or ruined or tired-out (knackered). from English words which have a Scandinavian Etymology Hakluyt bean 17:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hiberno-English

So far as I can tell it's English that has been profoundly influenced by features of the Irish language hiberno-english.com. Quite a lot of what the article contains atm is not really in the category, seems to me. Hakluyt bean 18:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

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