User talk:Hesperian/Archive 9

The following text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.

Contents 1 Wikibreak 2 Question 3 Steve Irwin 4 Jazzper unblock request 5 Vigourous [sic] 6 Departments 7 Excel 8 I don't like reverting user pages... 9 New Guinea 10 Table question 11 Books 12 Redirect Categories 13 Wikisource 14 Commons - deletion of banksia category 15 Spam 16 commons 17 g'day 18 Catalpa Exhibition 19 WA 175 years celebration 20 Your snotty message 21 Hello, my friend 22 Thank you, O great and noble person! 23 Yet more thanks to you, o kind sir! 24 Comment on Nottingham 25 TBA 26 Happy first edit day! 27 Username 28 Psephos 29 Great to meet you 30 Islands 31 Manning Clark 32 Message received 33 Mounts 34 Homesteads list 35 Mount Dale 36 SS Georgette 37 Thanks

[edit] Wikibreak

{{wikibreak}} I expect to have very little access to Wikipedia between now and Friday. Hesperian 12:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

After your efforts over the couple of days will a week be a long enough break? -- enjoy your self --Gnangarra 13:10, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm finding I have good access but not much time. I've been checking my messages and watching my watchlist, but haven't had much opportunity to contribute. Hesperian 10:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

How does a user make robot-assisted edits if their account is not a bot? I know absolutely nothing about bots and was just curious. Dmoon1 14:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Irwin

If you would like to pay tribute to Steve Irwin, who tragically died on September 4th 2006, just feel free to sign your name on Mil Falcon's userpage under tributes. 49Untouchable 18:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jazzper unblock request

Jazzper seems to be begging for a second chance. Personally, I think he's served his time, but then again I don't know the full story behind his sock puppetry. It's up to you whether to grant the unblock or not. --  Netsnipe  ►  09:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Jazzper also sent an email request to the Unblock mailing list. I've posted the email with his permission here. --Deathphoenix ʕ 02:37, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vigourous [sic]

Re this diff, "vigorous" is the correct spelling according to my dictionary. I don't know if "vigourous" is American English or just plain wrong, but either way the edit was incorrect for an Australian article. Hesperian 05:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

*sigh* just plain wrong, I'm afraid. Thanks for noticing that. I only added that erroneous entry to my spell list recently so I can go back and fix the handful of articles where it was used. Cheers, CmdrObot 12:57, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Departments

I agree. Also think the phrasing would be more clear if it was Category:Australian government departments and entities.--Peta 01:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Excel

Hi do you know of a quick way to turn excel files into wikified tables?--Peta 01:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You've lost me already :) I'm trying to make a List of endangered Australian plants, using the Species Profile and Threats Database, you can dowload can excel sheets for critically endangered and endangered flora (there are too many vulnerable species to include in the page). If you could do the excel voodoo and stick it on the page - I can clean it up.--Peta 01:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I've done the criticals, so its just the very long list of endangered that needs to be converted. Thanks. --Peta 02:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Now I look at it, I don't think the subspecies bit should be wikified at all, just the specific epithet. I'll get busy fixing up the messy bits, thanks again. --Peta 03:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I don't like reverting user pages...

...but when the edits are so idiotic, it a done thing. Cheers. -- Longhair 11:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Guinea

• [1]  :-) well put - but it is scary that the lowest common denominator (in this case very low) is editing - is he a troll or naive? --Golden Wattle ^talk 00:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Table question

A not-very-elegant solution... Interesting question though, I am going out shortly but will give it some more thought.

Do	you	know	how
to	format	this	table
to	have	vertical	lines
between	the	columns	but
not	horizontal	lines	between
the	rows?	I@n	01:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• Nice work. I had used <col> many times previously but could never work out why it wouldn't work in Wikipedia. Mystery solved. And given that, I think the solution you've come up with is the best you'll get. -- I@n 06:44, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Books

I was thinking that a category for Australian natural history books (flora and fauna etc) would be really useful. Mabye category:Books about Australia, and something more specific later? Any thoughts?--Peta 02:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

This is sort of related. I'm thinking about getting a several naturalist articles with Australian links to FA, so far my list includes Banks, Brown, von Mueller, Gould and Joseph Dalton Hooker (not crucial to oz, but very interesting). Can you think of anyone else, I'm a bit short on animal guys - but it seems the animals were all bundled up and shiped off for British and French guys to classify at home.--Peta 03:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, Banks it is (after I finish Hooker). I wasn't sure about the copyright on the new edition of the Florilegium - since it seems plausible that the publisher could argue that they had made a new work of art with the old plates. It was also never clear to me how much text accompanied the images either.--Peta 04:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a bit cautious when it comes to copyright- Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. might not apply since they're technically not copies, they're an original use of old materials (but I could also be totally wrong). I think all the preparation is still a part of the work. We have a copy of the first/new edition ANU, they're really intricate and beautiful. Each print is individually framed though, so its not clear if there is text that is supposed to go with each plate. All the plates are available online too, via the link on the article.--Peta 05:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

If they're the black and white engravings they should be fine. I'll ask around about the coloured ones and let you know if I get an anwser.--Peta 05:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

For an opinion on the copyright of the coloured versions, see User_talk:Petaholmes#Colored_lithographs. --Peta 04:10, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect Categories

You deleted Category:Redirects from alternate languages and Category:Redirects from alternate names. However, these categories still have all the associated articles in them. For example, names has over 5000 articles in it. This is because the category listings do not register a category change associated with a template until the article is re-edited. I have restored these two categories and nominated them for merger at CFD. You may wish to comment on the nomination. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 01:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikisource

Hi, I haven't had any experience on wikisource and I was wondering if lists of publications would be ok there, for something like this, since it doesn't really belong on Wikipedia but is useful from someone working on the subject.--Peta 07:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, I've uploaded a heap of new Banksia pics I took at the ANBG to the commons, I just put them in the Banksia category (I wasn't sure what you'd want to do with B. cunninghmai etc). I have heaps of Dryandra, Hakea and Grevillea pics that I will upload over the next couple of days too. --Peta 08:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commons - deletion of banksia category

Hey in case you dont visit commons frequently I left a message/link on you talk page the one of categories for Banksia species have been nominated for deletion. There is also discussion going in two different places about the other banksia categories Gnangarra 09:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

NP ;-) Gnangarra

[edit] Spam

I most strenuously object to your indiscriminately spamming article talk pages with a message unrelated to the articles. Hesperian 24 September 2006 (UTC)

In case, you think those edits to be spam, I shall replace them with expand tag. Would that be okay? --Bhadani 12:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that these messages were placed only on articles that you think require quality improvements? In that case, I apologise. Such usage is definitively not "indiscriminate". I do think the message is a bit cryptic though - I don't think the average person would interpret it as an invitation/request to improve the quality of the article. If you want to promote Wales' statement, perhaps you could add an expand tag as well? Hesperian 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Nothing to apologise. Rather you made me to underatand that such taggings of a particular group of pages may lead to some sort of "communication gap" among the users. I shall sortly tag these pages with {{expand}} too. In future, I shall be wording similar messages, if any, in a way which make the message very clear. Regards. --Bhadani 12:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] commons

Im just going to stay away for a little while will still add the odd pict to stuff I'm working on but'll keep well away from discussions. Gnangarra

[edit] g'day

Hey I can relate to that above comment ! (I think the late Frank Zappa could say that very well)another vegemite needs a watch - [139.168.242.17] SatuSuro 13:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Catalpa Exhibition

Hi Hesperian, I recently added to the catalpa article... "On 22nd September 2006 an exhibition named Escape, Fremantle to freedom, was opened at Fremantle prison displaying many artifacts relating to the catalpa rescue. the exhibition is FREE to enter and uses modern touchscreen systems to allow reading of many books, journals and diary's on display for the first time. After three months the exhibition is due to travel around museums around Australia."... Its a fine collection, au$500.000 and five years of effort by the cutorial team and staff. I will be manning it on Sunday 1st October 9 till 5, but come along any time. Bring your camera! Ghostieguide 13:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WA 175 years celebration

http://www.175anniversary.wa.gov.au/index.cfm?fuseaction=heritage_icons.march stumbled into this while looking for extra sources for the article on Kings Park, Western Australia. Anyhow I remember seeing it as part of discussion somewhere else but cant find it now. So thought I drop it on Your talk page most of us West Aussies seem to be watching your page for some reason. Gnangarra 01:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

sorry about the clutter Gnangarra

So my user talk page has become the de facto Wikipedia:Western Australian Wikipedian's notice board, has it? I'm flattered.:-) Looks interesting. Hesperian 01:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

For a particular group of us that is. Others do exist in this god forsaken miasma of PA's and FA's and so on, but thats another story (or should that be river/watercourse) SatuSuro 02:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your snotty message

I had no contact with Rebecca until she introduced herself to me by accusing me of vandalism.

I gave her a reply. If she would like to delete it, of course she is welcome to do so.

I see no reason why you are inserting yourself into the matter. --Nottingham 01:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you also grow up and let Rebecca decide if the message is a problem? I am sure Rebecca will do what she feels is appropriate. Your name is quite appropriate, as you are quite a snotty person.

If taking away editing rights make you feel all mighty and powerful, then please do so. I wouldn't want to interfere with your feelings of power and self-esteem. --Nottingham 02:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello, my friend

Since you obviously are never biased, nor hasty, and since you never are judgmental nor jump into a situation before understanding it, and since you never act as a holier than thou judge, I must express my deep felt admiration for you. It's amazing that with your wonderful personal qualities, that you did not suggest to Rebecca that she was hasty and unintentionally rude by falsely accusing someone of vandalism.

Since I know that you always "assume good faith", I know that you will take these comments seriously, and reflect on them carefully. I have no doubt that you contact Rebecca and gently mention that she probably was hasty and improperly judgmental in labeling someone as a vandal without ever having even interacted with that person.

Since I know that you always "assume good faith", I know that you will post a friendly statement or two on the AfD page, to chide people for having been nasty and piled on and leveled false accusations. For example, Bobblehead is the one who launched the AfD, not me. I know that you must, being the great person that you are, want to clear up the misconceptions and tell people that they were overly hasty in their judgments.

Since I know that you always "assume good faith", I would be utterly shocked to find that out that you pronouced a sentence of banishment or banning from Wikipedia for someone coming to you in a friendly manner. However, if I am mistaken, and if it would give you joy to ban me and eliminate my user name, then of course you should do so. I would never want to come between you and your enjoyment of life. --Nottingham 16:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you, O great and noble person!

It is with great humility and absolute sincerity that I thank you for honoring me with a reply! I realize that I am unworthy of your attention, and that must be why you did not apologize for your previous errors, for wrongly inserting yourself into matters, for displaying prejudice and bias against another Wikipedian (the most unworthy Nottingham), for doing nothing when another Wikipedia made a personal attack (Rebecca's false charge of vandalsim, and for effectively cooperating with such a nasty and venomous charge (the vandalism charge).

I regret that I must bring formal charges against the great Hesperian for abuse of his most high and mighty powers. As always, as the great person and master Wikipedia that you are, you obviously assume good faith for all my remarks to you. Nevertheless, I will have to look for the proper avenue to bring formal Wikipedia charges against you. At the very least, such charges will force you to spend your time explaining your unfortunate abuses of the vast and great power you wield. I fear that Wikipedia may not survive if you have to devote time to your support of false vandalism charges, hostile treatment of me, threats and then execution of a ban for 36 hours (extra long for the most low and unworthy Nottingham!).

I have learned from you that proper Wikipedian behavior is to falsely accuse others of vandalism when you haven't even become acquainted with them. I should realize that when someone is as grand and important as you are (after all, anyone who is proud of making an average of more than 20 Wikipedia entries per day for almost 2 years is a person to be greatly admired and respected!), they are not to be trifled with. I am so grateful therefore that you have taken the time to read my humble words to you.

I close by offering you hearty congratulations for supporting prejudice and bias on Wikipedia, false accusations against others (namely against the most unworthy Nottingham) and for knowing her to insert yourself into situations in a manner that shows hostility and bad will towards others. Perhaps one day I can aspire to be as great an expert as you are on the most minute and inconsequential aspects of plant life.

Of course, being the great person that you are, I have no doubt that you always assume good faith, and that you will contact Rebecca to express your sorrow that she nastily called someone a vandal.

Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to receiving friendly word from Rebecca of her regret for her conduct. I could never expect to hear regret from a mighty person such as you of your past conduct, since it is merely enough that you allow me the privilege of continuing to live on the same planet as you. --Nottingham 21:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yet more thanks to you, o kind sir!

As a great and powerful "Wikipedia administrator", I humbly thank you for your time to respond to you point by point, with some additional points for you thrown in, kind sir.

1. Forgive me for being direct, O great Wikipedia administrator, but I do not understand why you state "I have not accused you of vandalism" and then you add the, pardon me for using this word (but I trust that all Wikipedia administrators always assume good faith), patronizing phrase "I don't see anything in your history that constitutes vandalism". Have I ever said you accused me of vandalism? No, I have not, o great one. May I humbly ask if you are, perhaps, playing the martyr? Since I did not say you called me a vandal or accused me of vandalism, what was your point?

2. "previous errors" most assuredly refers to your failing to be the great Wikipedia Administrator I know you must be able to be! For I know that a truly competent and good Wikipedia Administrator would be polite and never patronizing (when I read your User Page, I was reminded of a famous comment of Winston Churchill regarding Clement Atlee), and that a good Administrator would try to foster harmony and efficiency in Wikipedia by suggesting to someone such as Rebecca that she had been hasty and offensive in her actions, and that such actions are abusive and damaging to the very Wikipedia that noble Administrators are trying to protect. After all, everything on Wikipedia is public, and by falsely making malicious vandal accusations, she is undermining the community. After all, vandalism is a serious offense in Wikipedia, so false accusations of vandalism are prima facie abusive.

3. & 4. I see that you feel it is appropriate for you to selectively "insert yourself into matters". Ah ha, the great and wise Wikipedia Administrator only selectively works to improve and administer Wikipedia. I understand. You are very willing to make 20 or more edits per day, but not to send one constructive message to Rebecca. You are very willing to throw your holy weight around as a grand Wikipedia Administrator and block those whom meet your disapproval. Surely you are too important for such minor matters as contacting Rebecca to explain that she was wrong for accusing another Wikipedia contributor of vandalism when there was none, and that in the future she should be more constructive, thoughtful, and restrained in her comments. My humble apologies for expecting more of you, o great one.

Rest assured, nothing was "hurting my feelings". My friendly advice is to avoid such patronizing phrases. Just friendly advice, o great one.

You said "you description of her as 'stupid'". I have never used the word "stupid" on Wikipedia. Why do you, o great and important adminstrator, make such false statements against one of your humble subjects? Also, why do you put the word "illiterate" in quote marks? I did not use that word either, so I do not know what you are quoting. Surely a Wikipedia Administrator is careful enough not to wrongly ascribe statemetns to others!

5. As regards "formal charges", I appreciate your advice, o great one. I will do what I deem fit, and I feel the matter is not resolved.

6. "sarcastic sycophany"? Of what are you talking? Are you ignoring the Assume Good Faith guideline? I am stunned. Moreover, you talk of sarcastic sycophany, but you have not discussed the haughty arrogance and condescension of some Wikipedia Administrators! Regardless, from my need to reply, it is obvious that I have not made my point. As for "nonsense", I am stunned that you would characterize the humble pleadings of one of your Wikipedia subjects as "nonsense". Is it abusive to call a person's comments nonsense? Should you now judge yourself and block yourself?

Perhaps there is a solution. I would humbly suggest that were you to apologize for the misunderstanding and condescension you have displayed, and were you to (as the great Wikipedia Administrator that you are) suggest to Rebecca that she owed me an apology (so as to clear my name within the Wikipedia community) for her false charge of vandalism (after all, vandalism is a very serious Wikipedia charge), and were I to receive such apologies from both parties, then most assuredly I would glad make comparable apologies to both the great Wikipedia Administrator and Rebecca. Otherwise, I suggest, as per Wikipedia guidelines, that we take this matter to Wikipedia Mediation. I feel that you as Wikipedia Administrator it is important that you live up to proper Administrator conduct and set an example for all to proud of, including always assuming good faith.

Thank you for your very kind consideration. It is, of course, your choice whether we can resolve this quickly and easily, or less quickly with more time and effort invested. --Nottingham 23:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment on Nottingham

Hello Hesperian,

Please see my comment to TenOfAllTrades on this matter. I do not know the best way to deal with what I percieve will be a continuing problem. I hope that you and/or TenOfAllTrades can provide or direct me to the required administrative assistance to prevent this from becoming an unnecessary burden to my ability to contribute to Wikipedia.

Regards, Emcee 02:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TBA

Thansk I got you can delete Gnangarra 23:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Happy first edit day!

Happy first edit, and thank you for all your contributions to Wikipedia. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 02:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou Hesperian for two years of fantastic article contributions, the most important thing to Wikipedia. WP:BULL !!! Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 06:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Username

No and bugger. After changing, I've had some other (different) issues and started to regret my choice. That seals it I suppose. I wonder if I could revert back to my original name? -- I@n 14:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Apparently not -- I@n 16:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

... Why didn't I realise that people would call me "snotty"? Hesperian 23:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

What did you expect? -- I@n 06:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Psephos

Actually I don't mind most of Margana's edits. Some of the statements in the original version are indeed unverifiable, even if true. Adam 04:57, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Great to meet you

Great to put a face to a name, thanks for coming along today, Hope you get the opportunity to come to the Catalpa exhibition again soon. Loved the Moondyne article, Cheers. Ghostieguide 10:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Islands

Are you up for helping with a mass move of Islands to name (location), almost all the Australian Islands are using commas at the moment. --Peta 01:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

• No problem, I've started it, I don't know when it'll be finished. If an Island is also a town, like Palm Island, it should be at Palm Island, Queensland, right? I'm assuming towns have priority over the convention for other features.--Peta 02:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manning Clark

It would be an honour. I will do it tonight. Adam 04:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

It's taking a bit longer than expected, but will happen. Adam 14:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

This is proving to be a fascinating project and I now feel obliged to gather more sources before proceeding. I will get it done over the weekend. Adam 06:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

In the meantime, see if you can find a useable photo. Adam 08:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Adam Carr/Documents6: work in progress, comments welcome. Adam 11:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Message received

Cheers, Grant65 | Talk 03:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mounts

Thanks, now I just need to figure out the best way to make the list useful. I'm a bit listed out after, updating the bats, extinct animals and lighthouse lists, making those extinct and endangered plant lists and merging all the horrible TSI stubs into a list.--Peta 00:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

• Could a be a pain and ask you to give me list that just includes the mountains? Thanks. --Peta 00:51, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homesteads list

That sounds like an interesting list, suggest if possible a red linked list just to capture all the ones that have articles, delte after you've checked. and then put up the complete list with those one linked. Will it be regionalised these ones Nallan, White Wells, Dalgaranga, Boogardie, Austin Downs and couple of others also in the Yalgoo - Mt Magnet - Cue - Sandstone region are worth a para or two but not full articles. Then theres Nigham, Mt Gibson that may warrant a full article. Gnangarra 01:34, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

(Replying here to avoid spreading the conversation over three talk pages)

Good thinking re: "red linked list just to capture all the ones that have articles"; I'll do that.

I was planning on putting them up in alphabetical order. I think this is best. If others disagree I can always put them up in order of latitude. But full regionalisation is not something I'm prepared to tackle, not with 5000 entries!

With all these lists I always include a remarks column, so that brief notes can be added for entries that don't quite merit an article. The list in ex-convict school teachers in Western Australia is an example of that working really well. Hesperian 02:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Good point about alphabetical, forget regional suggestion Gnangarra 03:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

email from me only on this oneSatuSuro 09:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

actually, where is the list? SatuSuro 10:44, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for info, found some needing dabs already! :) SatuSuro 12:31, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

It's quite an entertaining list - as it loads the co-ordinates they dance to the right! SatuSuro 14:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't bother its nothing - just was trying to suss things out - good antidote is late 1960's movies, I'm getting the dvds at the moment... SatuSuro 13:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mount Dale

Hey SG can you play with these pages I dont see any reason or obsticle for the article created by myself and SatoSuro to exist, Mount Dale, Western Australia made by SatoSuro and me in August we're the only editors (exclude merge), Mount Dale most information and Mount Dale (Western Australia) redirect. Gnangarra 10:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that, didn't think it was worth a full merge discussion. Gnangarra 13:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

at least they aren't blanking your page like they do here when you upset someone ;-) Gnangarra

[edit] SS Georgette

I added a new image to the page, My own work. Hope the copyright is correct. If its not ip to scratch, feel free to delete it. Ghostieguide 14:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the updated list, I figure mountains are pretty likely to have/get articles unlike some of the other features; once I get done with the ACT I might ask you for the other states. I've got my books for the Banks rewrite, the Patrick O'Brian one is a good read, so far I've learned he didn't care much for Latin or Greek and he could never draw. I was wondering if you knew if this painting had anything to do with the Endeavour voyage specifically? I'll let you know when I need some reviewing on Banks (probably late next week). --Peta 01:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The above text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.