Talk:Heroin

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Archive of past discussions

Contents

[edit] Suicide *or* Physician-Assisted Suicide?

a) I agree with previous note! The causal link between concealability and profitability is too tenuous to be stated as it is; that heroin is potent contributes to its profitability, surely, but that's not the only factor. The strength of the cravings its users have seems equally important -- the example by comparison of LSD (not physically addictive) is a good illustration.

b) As of now, the article says "The drug can be used for suicide or, as in the case of Sigmund Freud, physician-assisted suicide." This makes it sound like physician-assisted suicide is a discrete category outside the universe of "suicide." Would distinguishing rather between "suicide" and "euthanasia" be an appropriate change? Also, a link merely to "Sigmund Freud" doesn't explain Freud's connection to physician-assisted suicide. Did he practice it on patients? Did he ask his own doctor for an overdose?

timbo 17:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] bad link

Link [2] gives The Page you requested is unavailable. --MikaelRo 23:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to "Diamorphine"

This article was moved from Heroin to Diamorphine without any apparent discussion or consensus so it has been reverted. As far as I can tell, "heroin" is the older and more established name for the drug while "diamorphine" is used primarily (or exclusively) in the UK as a generic prescription name. This would be analagous to having the THC article renamed to "dronabinol". The unscientific google test shows about 200,000 hits for diamorphine and over 17 million for heroin. --Bk0 (Talk) 17:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Diamorphine is the proper name in britain where i am from but since International Nonproprietary Names are supposed to be used it should be Diacetylmorphine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Right Honourable (talk • contribs).

No way. WP:COMMONNAME is very clear - use the most commonly used term as the article name. Diacetylmorphine may be the most commonly used term in British naming institutes but what about the other 99% of the world's population? Bk0's Google report above is quite clear. —Wknight94 (talk) 13:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Totally agree w/ wknight. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 14:34, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Its diamorphine in the UK, diacetylmorphine is the INN, issued by the World Health Organization, which has English, French, Russian, and Spanish variants of the word. So it is the correct unambigious medical name for most of the world though for WP the article should be at Heroin.GraemeLeggett 16:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, whilst diacetylmorphine is a recognised synonym for heroin/ diamorphine, an INN does not exist for the molecule.193.129.185.28 14:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. If we are to call this Heroin, then there should be Valium and Viagra... but no, instead we have Diazepam and Sildenafil. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.113.123.1 (talk) 00:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Popular opinion?

Should this article maybe also include a mention of popular opinion about heroin? As far as I see, there is no detail about it having a huge stigma in the highly developed world. Peoplesunionpro 00:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It's a mess

This article is a rambling mess! It spans pharmacology, medicine, and popular drug culture. The drug culture needs hived off from the pharmacology/medicine into a separate article. Possibly "diamorphine" for the pharmacology and "heroin" for the drug culture? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.127.78.107 (talk) 23:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Agreed. This article could also be edited for grammar. There are quite a few long run on sentances that take up a few lines of text. Bbitu 02:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC) Why is there a paragraph devoted to one guy's oddball conspiracy theory regarding the CIA and an alleged link to drug syndicates? (uncited of course)? Deleted!

[edit] Heroin name question

(copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pharmacology) May I ask why the Wiki article is called Heroin instead of Diacetylmorphine, per naming conventions here? If you enter Valium you're redirected to Diazepam; why is the reverse true here? Jeffpw 08:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I've wondered about this before, and I think I agree. Diacetylmorphine is the INN. The counter-argument, of course, would be that "heroin" is much more widely used (there's a brief discussion on the heroin talk page where WP:COMMONNAME is cited). It's not a current brand name, and would be better likened to aspirin/acetylsalicylic acid than Valium/diazepam, *except* that aspirin, while a genericized trademark like heroin, is now the INN. The naming conventions aren't set in stone, but I think this is at least worth discussion. --Galaxiaad 20:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. Does anyone know of any country outside the UK where heroin still has a licenced medicinal use? (Not harm reduction) If it is not used as a medication elsewhere, I don't think there is much of a rationale for using the INN. Fvasconcellos 22:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I haven't found one explicitly named (but then, I may have to use a foreign word for "cancer" in a Google search). A search for "Diacetylmorphine cancer countries" brings up a US bill that states "diacetylmorphine is successfully used in Great Britain and other countries for relief of pain due to cancer;". Also, this news report claims it was approved in the US for cancer in relatively recent history. The word "heroin" is used in this and this paper discussing its use for cancer care. It appears that both lay and medical use of the word "heroin" is common, and yes, it is more commonly thought of as a drug than a pharmaceutical. Using the word doesn't promote one manufacturer's brand, in the way that Valium does. Colin°Talk 23:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's an interesting commentary re. Ireland; "Heroin for medical use is not available in Ireland though there is nothing in the Misuse of Drugs Acts that prohibits the prescribing of heroin. This is because, in an effort to reduce the availability of heroin, licences are not issued which would allow the drug to be imported into the country.". I think that clarifies the position for many countries. Also, see this for further European history - Alison☺ 23:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
This is a little off-topic, but there's little medical reason to use diacetylmorphine today. Fentanyl is at least as effective with a much higher therapeutic index. Even oxycodone is probably roughly as effective quantitatively as heroin at relieving pain and is more effective orally. --Bk0 (Talk) 01:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
So is the rationale for using the chemical name instead of the trade name to avoid promoting a particular brand? if so, I can live with the page name as it stands (although Heroin was a brand name at one point). I was just curious, is all. Jeffpw 23:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the reason is usually that there are many brand names in different countries (and within the same country), but the INN is used everywhere, so it's a good place for the page to be located. Probably the advertising thing too though. --Galaxiaad 00:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't think use of INN in lieu of a brand name is primarily to discourage advertising; INNs are internationally unambiguous, and unambiguous article names are in WP's best interest :) Galaxiaad hit the nail on the head—it's a good place for the page to be located. However, given heroin's far wider recreational use, I'm not sure moving the page to "diacetylmorphine" would be a good idea; I can almost read the "what gives" messages on the Talk page already. Any ideas? Fvasconcellos 01:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It is also good if the article name matches what people would use in other articles when referring to the drug. Mostly, we prefer the INN name for both the article, and also any references to the article. To rename it diacetylmorphine might give the impression that that is WP's preferred name everywhere. There are only 8 article-space links to diacetylmorphine, 15 to diamorphine, and over 1500 links to heroin! You can be sure most refer to non-medical use. The phrase "diacetylmorphine addict" doesn't even return one full Google page of listings. Colin°Talk 08:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I also agree with Galaxiaad. Should we copy this to the Heroin talk page? --Selket Talk 08:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Copied. My only other question is would a redirect from Heroin to diacetylmorphine be appropriate? Jeffpw 09:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Did you mean diacetylmorphine to heroin? It's already there. --Selket Talk 09:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
No. I get that the most popular name is Heroin. But the anal retentive part of me still thinks the correct name is diacetylmorphine. So I was wondering if the article should actually be titled diacetylmorphine and anyone typing heroin would be redirected to the article. I am happy to bow to consensus; I just want the consensus to say "We know it's technically incorrect but we're doing it anyway". Jeffpw 09:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Such redirects happen automatically when an article is moved/renamed. Have a look at Wikipedia:Requested moves if you want to pursue this. For such a significant article, which has impact outside of just this WikiProject, you'll need a strong consensus for moving it. I suspect you won't get this, regardless of any merits. A wider discussion may do no harm, though. Colin°Talk 10:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Re It is thought that heroin's popularity... comes from its somewhat different perceived effects: What does perceived effects mean? Effects on perception during usage? The effects it is believed to have? Please make this clear. RedRabbit1983 13:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requiem for a Dream

Why isn't this movie mentioned in the Culture section where it talks about movies about heroin addicts? 4.234.39.21 19:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Does it matter? Unless the movie is culturally significant (it has had a lasting influence on the genre or people's perception of junkies), any reference to the movie in this article is trivia. RedRabbit1983 12:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
As it was an award winning film adapted from a book by an award winning novelist, it does seem culturally significant to me. I'll add it in and wikilink to the article about it.
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