Talk:Heroes (TV series)/Archive 2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Weird symbol

I noticed this at about halfway through the episode, but there's a symbol that reoccurs every time Syler is connected. The genome on the computer, the arrangement of pool toys at the murder scene,and the paintings when Hiro arrives at Isaac's place. It seems to resemble this f. Is their any clue as to what pertinance this has so far? -InsaneZeroG 03:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

well, in Mathematics, that's the symbol for a 'function', that is a particular equation, or manipulation ofthe numbers. I'd say hold off a bit until there's either production based quotes or more episodes to reveal it. ThuranX 03:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, his message on Mohinder's father's answering machine says that he now has a purpose, which can technically be a "function". Maybe this killing is his "function". Also, notice how the people he kills have some sort of a relationship to the "Heroes". Isaac himself was a "hero". The genome on the computer was related to Mohinder's father, who researched the "heroes". Also, the murder scene involved Matt, a telepathic "hero".--68.90.60.104 03:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The significance of each victim is relative. I'm almost certain Sylar didn't kill the guy at the scene Matt was in so that a "hero"—let alone Matt, specifically—would find him. We don't know for sure how Chandra—Mohinder's dad—died. Amd no offense to mister Mendez, but Isaac seems like easy prey. This is what I'd called speculative and circumstantial. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 07:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

A symbol, which looks like an elongated 'S' with small lines drawn extending from the inside of it, two on one half of the S and one on the other half.

It's not the f. If you'll look closely at it you'll notice it has two lines on the bottom curve making it look more like a strand of RNA. It's all over the place if you watch for it. It's been seen in atleast six places in the second episode. Anyways, My feeling is that we should wait till it atleast appears in another episode before it's added to the actual page. The better bard 07:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The "Heroes Symbol" is first shown in the second episode of the series - Don't Look Back. We first glimpse it at the top right corner of the paper Peter is drawing on at the hospital. Afterwards we see it again at Isaac's work space, when Hiro walks in searching for him. There are many paintings of it hanging around the whole work space. Next, the symbol shows up, on an attached note on the map at Mohinder's apartment (originaly rented out by his father, Chandra Suresh) while he and Eden look at it, and, most significantly, in ASCII Art form, in the code of Mohinder's father's computer program, supposebly devised to help in finding anyone who might possibly have "special abilities". Lastly, still on the second episode, we see it shapped by a hose and what seem to be pieces of paper attached to the hose, in the swimming pool at the scene where Matt and the police squad investigate the supposed missing girl and her murdered parents.

The significance of this symbol is still not clear at the end of the second episode, but it is obviously attached to these special characters. While some may think that it is related to the character Sylar, due to its similarity to the letter "S" (a signature symbol), this does not appear to be the case, since it has shown up in many places, not only those directly connected to him.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Logan Pendragon (talk • contribs) at 20:48, October 7, 2006 (UTC)

Uh..kayy. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 21:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, it's not just in murder scenes. It appears on the 9th Wonders comic Hiro picks up at the newsstand, on a post-it note placed on Mohinder's board, and in the code scrolling through the computer program.SuperJerms 22:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, It's now been all over the place in two episodes. I think that makes it significant enough to have some mention in the article. Hopefully someone better at coding and writing could edit it in or something. The better bard 05:54, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I didn't catch the symbol too much in the second episode, but in the third one it was all over the place. It will have to be mentioned somewhere even if it is just trivial information. As of right now, we don't know what it means. --Pinkkeith 15:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Did you notice that the character labeled "Mysterious Associate" on this page was wearing a pendant with that symbol on it? We only saw it briefly, but I think that it was there. Isn't it possible that he's Sylar?

Sylar appears to be white. Sorry. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 02:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you think that it is possible that Sylar's powers include the ability to change his appearance? The character in the bar in the end of chapter 3 definitely has the symbol on his necklace, and is also apparently able to block his thoughts from being "read". Another place that the symbol appears is on Claire's geometry book.Eightysix 08:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody have a picture of it? The page would certainly benfit from a picture of it. JQF 19:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I have a good one that my buddie made but I have no clue about Wikipedia's image rules or anything, Here's the Image. But if you want a screen cap I could find find one of those too.The better bard 20:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll put it up in a sec. JQF 19:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Isaac's power

Isaac Mendez: The character chart says his precognition is "drug-induced." However, I haven't seen anything that indicates his drug addiction and his powers are related.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.51.31.12 (talk • contribs).

  1. In episode one, he says that he didn't remember painting them.
  2. When he paints the explosion picture, he is on an overdose of heroin.

That enough for you?--Ac1983fan(yell at me) 16:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

It's not enough for me. Putting two and two together might make sense, but it's still original research if there's no source for the conclusion. Kafziel Talk 16:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
It's in the episode. Besides, he also says in the first episode he is going to quit cold turkey to stop him from making paintings, so it is basically confirmed.--Ac1983fan(yell at me) 16:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
There's no such thing as "basically confirmed". There's verifiable, and there's original research. It could just as easily be concluded that the heroin only caused the darker visions; he didn't complain about painting Peter flying, or Hiro's adventures in New York. Or it could be said he thought the heroin had something to do with it; no one in the show fully understands the source of their powers yet, so there's no reason to assume he has all the answers about his visions. The article should state what has been explicitly shown, and nothing more. Kafziel Talk 16:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
For arguments sake, it should be noted, that the use of heroin is likely a booster to his powers. While he may or may not have used when painting Hiro or Peter's successful use of power he may need that extra 'kick' to unlock the really powerful stuff. --DJ Chair 17:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
He might. Or he might not. It's unverifiable either way. We'll have to see what future episodes say. Kafziel Talk 17:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
He has stated that he painted them while high, and that if he goes cold turkey, the paintings will stop. That is enough. The character is describing a direct relationship between producing the future-indicative paintings while using the drugs. While we may find that he has other ways of inducing the prophetic works after he quits using, IF he quits, for now we have the charcter's own causative statements, which are enough. ThuranX 20:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. He said he painted the train wreck and the explosion while high. He didn't say he painted the portraits of Peter or Claire while high, and he certainly didn't say anything about scripting and illustrating an entire comic book about Hiro (as he was dead before he could explain). Also, the character's own statements are not enough, because (as I said) nobody yet understands the causes of their powers. He's an unreliable source. Kafziel Talk 20:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, the little stick figure sketch in episode 2 occurs in the hospital some time after his overdose; can we not assume that he isn't high at that time?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bluemonq (talk • contribs) at 20:44, October 3, 2006 (UTC)
That was Peter. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 21:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Oops, wasn't paying close enough attention; this sort of thing happens when you're studying for a midterm =P bluemonq 21:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Now, everyone, chillax. For the record, official press releases state outright that Isaac, and I quote, "can paint the future when he's high". There's no mistake. This was official before the series ever debuted. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 21:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Got a source for that? You can't have a quote without a source. I searched Google for your quote and came up with one hit, a blog. Of the two official sources listed in the article, one doesn't mention it and one is a dead link. I haven't said anywhere that it definitely isn't so; what I'm saying is that it needs a solid cite from a reputable source. That's not negotiable; it's policy, not just some random thing I came up with. Kafziel Talk 23:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
You wanna cite Peter's flight and Claire's healing factor, too? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 23:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I didn't ask you to cite Isaac's ability to predict the future. Just the conclusion that he needs to be on heroin to do it. If you said Claire needed to be wearing her cheerleader outfit in order to use her healing ability, then yes, I'd ask for a source for that, too. Listen, this isn't a matter for debate and certainly not for argument. If someone asks for a source, it needs to be provided. In this case, more than one person has. Absolutely every statement on Wikipedia needs to be verifiable, and I haven't been able to verify this one. If a source can't be provided, it's original research. If a source can be provided, then somebody needs to do it. Kafziel Talk 02:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Kafziel. I don't think the drugs cause the power. I think at this point the drugs may help while he is still learning about this power, but in the end I think we'll see that he can do it without drugs. So I don't think it is necessary to connect drugs to the powers, yet it can be mentioned on his page about him being a drug addict and how he thinks the drugs induce this power. Stetsonblade

Isaac's Occupation; Niki's relation to D.L.

Should someone add to Isaac's occupation, "Writer"? I was watching it again online, and in the comic that Hiro was reading, the back lists Isaac as a writer/artist.

Also, while Niki was talking to that red-head they mentioned D.L. a couple of times, as if he were Micah's biological father. 69.140.12.149 19:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Both correct and notible. However, the thing with Isaac happened in an altrernate future Hiro narrowly escaped from. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 21:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Production of a comic from finished art to press would take a month or more, for the quality of color printing seen in the show. I'd say it's valid to add Sequential artist, as I already did, or writer/artist as it also was at one point. Should this really be a problem for some, I'm willing to wait a week for more information, but not much more than that. I think this is a case of common sense prevailing, and we should re-add the info. ThuranX 02:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

C.S.I. Parody?

At the murder scene with Matt in the second epidode, there seems to be a parody of C.S.I. and possibly Cold Case with the two females, the blonde and the redhead, at the crime scene. Maybe this is enough for the trivia section?Bryanedp9 20:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Doubtful. I'm banking on a coincidence. And, even if it is, it's sketchy at best. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 21:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should also add that its also a Lost parody as both show feature actors who portray characters...

Is Heroes too Gory?

I want to link to this article because it brings up a pretty valid argument about the violence in Heroes:

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/heroes/heroes_gores_it_up.aspx —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Thedrobber (talk • contribs) 18:23, October 3, 2006 (UTC)

Well, that certainly appears to be a valid source, but I guess my question would be: Is the argument that Heroes is NOTABLY gory? CSI, Blade, X-Files, etc over the past 10 years have raised the acceptibility level for allowable gore on television, so I would ask if there's any evidence that Heroes is particularly gory, as opposed to simply another violent show of modern times. -Markeer 22:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd usually be inclined to say it's not, but between Sylar, Niki and Claire, the show has packed five dead bodies and three severe injuries into just two episodes. I don't think a note should be made on the article just yet, but maybe on the episode list article or individual episode articles. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 22:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The gore is refreshing. I'm tired of heros and villians fight and destroying half a city yet nobody gets hurt.

Its on at 9 0'clock at night for an hour. That initslef sould tell you the show is not for kids. I really disagreed with the article with that opinion. The article says that they were targeting it for kids. There is no evidence of direclty advistising for children. people need to begin to realize that comics and super heros has become much more far reaching than kids. At this point most comics at super hero related medie is targeted to teenagers and adults.

The animated Justice League Unlimited was aimed more at adults, even though the toys where aimed for kids.

Hunger?

When you here the message from sylith,(i forgot how to spell his name) he mentions his hunger. Do you think that has any thing to do thing to do with the removal of brains. I think he needs to feed on them inorder to stay alive or somthing.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.156.249.248 (talk • contribs) 23:20, October 3, 2006 (UTC)

Excellent point. We don't want to venture too deep into the realm of speculation, but I'll make a note. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 23:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The show is kind of hinting around that Sylar may be eating the brains of other people with super powers. In his New York apartment he had a map of where heros live that was way more detailed than the one the Indian Professor (Suresh I think his name is)had. The artist who can paint the future didn't have a brain when Hiro found him dead.

Additionally, at the end of chapter 2, the implication is that the brains of the victims are missing, and it is suggested by the investigating officer's inquiries that they are eaten. This may have been a clue dropped as humor/anecdotal comment? - eightysix 07:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

14.3?

The introduction says 14.3 million viewers. The NBC promos suggest 25 million. Any idea which is "true" (in the hazy world of ratings : ) - jc37 01:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

14.3 is the number from the Nielsen ratings for the premiere on NBC (on 9/25). I'm not sure how NBC came up with 25, possibly if they factored in the additional broadcasts (NBC & Sci-Fi channel) and the various places it could be found online... Purely speculation though. Ollie 22:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

D.L. Hawkins

Could this D.L. Hawkins guy be the same person that Niki and her friend (forgot the name) were talking about? The one that would supposedly protect Niki but is on the run from the law.--68.90.60.104 02:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

D.L. Hawkins is Niki's husband, so yes, he is the same guy. -pandaki 06:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Peter's power

I read in TV Guide that Peter's power turns out to be the power to asorb other's powers. But this has not come up in the show. Should it be included?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Outsyder (talk • contribs) at 02:58, October 4, 2006 (UTC)

I'd wait until it actually happens, rumors are an articles bane. Nezu Chiza 03:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
If you can find a copy of that article, please link it here. ::TV Guide is a perfectly decent citation for an article about a television program. -Markeer 03:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
First off, sign your comments. Second, this is the furst time any source has been mentioned. If you're the same GIPU who brought this up on Talk:Peter Petrelli, it would have been nice if you were clearer and more direct. Third, I'd definitely like to see this for myself. I'll honestly say upfront that I don't believe this. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 03:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
A brief glance at TVguide.com does not have any "feature" which specifically mentions Peter's undetermined powers, other than flight, so It may be in the newest issue but can anyone reference the actual article? Zippedpinhead 04:31, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I was the one who asked this on Peter's Talk Page, and I didn't realize that there was a TV-guide article about his power (I was speculating), however if you check above, you'll see that it comes from the October 9th through October 15th edition. I think Ace Class Shadow is getting a snippy, but maybe it's just me. --DJ Chair 13:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

What about the ability he seems to have to tell the future? He tells his mother about that one event in the first episode about him realizing his brother was in the wreck before anyone else knew and he had drawn that picture of him and his brother on the roof in the second episode with him flying. Stetsonblade

Your first point only tells us that he has an empathetic bond with his older brother, which is not unheard of in close families. It is almost as if he can "feel" major events occur in real time. Your second point occurs after he touches Isaac, which under the theory of the mimicry superpower like Mimic, would be allowed.Zippedpinhead 12:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Peter has specific visions of falling/jumping off the building long before he meets Isaac, the precog. Chulbert 13:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

At this point, after episode two, we've observed precognition and flight. While in the hospital Peter drew the rooftop scene from the end of episode two (precognition) and in that scene itself we observed Peter flying. Yes, technically he just "levitated" but between that and his brother Nathan's testimony that he actually flew after jumping off the building, I don't think we need to be overly obtuse on this issue. I also think there's enough evidence to support the case that is actual ability is at least power mimicry, possibly absorption, so I'm perfectly comfortable listing it as a speculated power. However, at this point there is no evidence that he actually steals powers ala Rogue, so I'd rather leave out absorption as a candidate and simply stick with mimicry. Chulbert 15:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I can agree with you on all the points that you made. There still are a lot of questions regarding his powers. I placed "flight" as a speculation since we only observed him levitating as you said. I'll have to go back and watch the episode again, but I think that Nathan said that he grabbed his brother but couldn't hold him because he was too heavy for him. He dropped Peter and he floated down towards the ground. --Pinkkeith 15:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
You moved Flight from the observed to speculated powers and added Levitation to the list of observed powers. How do you distinguish between "levitating one's self" and "flying"? The problem I have with listing Flight as a speculated power is that, imho, nobody actually speculates that Flight is his true power. If you insist on mentioning Levitation somewhere, I'd rather see it listed more specifically as "self-levitation", at which point you practically have to include flight, leaving us with "self-levitation/flight". Chulbert 16:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
He was floating, which is different than flight, because flight is horizontal, and levitaion is vertical.--Ac1983fan(yell at me) 17:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Now you've introduced a new term, "floating", without a specific definition. It is interesting to note, however, that even by the definitions you provide - not that I agree with tem - Peter flew. He moved through the air horizontally toward his brother, Nathan. Chulbert 17:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, we don't know what his power is yet. He hasn't truely flew yet. I don't think we actually observed him flying per se. Frankly, we didn't even see him fly horizontally, the camera was close on his face and then pulled back to show him in the air. We didn't observe him doing anything. I think it would be best to say that it is unknown for the time being. --Pinkkeith 18:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Flying, floating, levitation... This is starting to get technical. Can we just agree that he seems to have the ability to bend gravity? At least for himself?--68.90.60.104 01:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
NO, because that implies other things. He FLEW. He was above the ground which is vertical (levitation) yet could walk across thin air, thus propulsion, which is the essential difference between levitation and flight. ThuranX 02:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Since this story is heavily rooted in comic books and animated shows I will make an analogy to refute your statement. In Looney Tunes, When Wiley Coyote runs after the roadrunner and runs accross the end of a precipace, he continues to walk until he notices that he is walking on Air. The same event occurs to Peter in this show, He continues to walk on air until his brother tells him that he is on air. I would not/Could not make an arguement that Wiley was flying, he was merely doing something without realizing it. Peter was exactly the same way.Zippedpinhead 12:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

X isn't saying Peter knew what he was doing. X's assertion is that Peter could only have done it one way, which makes sense physically. Specifically, X is saying that Levitation does not allow for the much movement, especially the kind Peter was making. Thus, although Peter believed he was simply walking, he had to be subconciously propeling himself forward. Alsom your analogy, while cute, is flawed. This is serious, moderan, live-action, drama series about superowered characters. Looney Tunes are old cartoons with physically impossible sight gags. Loonatics would be a better comparison, but even then...yeah. Anyway, the bottomline is that he was not only in mid air, but moved. Most people would agree to calling that "flight". ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 15:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't a teenage girl having her neck snapped by a football player and then returning it to its original position count as physically impossible? And seeing as we haven't actually seen Peter fly yet, i'd like to propose a different theory. Flight implies upwards (vertical) propulsion in combination with horizontal propulsion; Peter, as far as we know, has only stayed on the same level that he's been on. He did not go upwards when walking across the air to his brother; perhaps when he was falling, he didn't exactly fly, but more stop his descent mid-air, at which point, had he full control of his powers, he would have been able to move as if that height were on the ground. Instead, he fell the rest of the way. Pretty absurd, yes, but... it's super heroes. They're allowed to be absurd.--The Sporadic Update 22:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Whatever the case on the flight thing, I've been thinking more about these "other powers". Firstly, from now on, this article will not try to argue a point. No "assumed powers" based loosely on other assumptions. Personally, I don't see the point in debating terminology between flight and levitation, but I'll leave that be since I don't have a strong opinon or case either way. As for the precognition, I don't think the burden of proof has been met. Spor and I are talking about absurdities; well, what's more absurd than basing assertions on dreams and stick figure drawings? As X has stated, flight-related dreams are very common. Furthermore, he largely arranged for his dream to "come true" after seeing it in his mind. It wasn't like Isaac painting horrible situations which Claire and Hiro later experiences. Also, Peter had the dream before meeting Isaac. The poor drawing is just as weak. Looking back, it was POV that applied the meaning/similarity of the doodle to Peter and Nathan's actual nighttime experience. Honestly, from the positioning of the figure, I see Peter drawing someone taking upward flight, not someone statary or moving forward. Finally, I still yet to see any citation from TVguide, a magazine that is bought and brought to my home every week. So, bottomline: his main power is still, if you forgive the pun, up in the air, but everything else is off the table. This is just like Niki, guys. No speculation, no matter how "obviously right" your theory might seem. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 00:27, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Right now flying is the only power he clearly has. Even drawing himself in the air can be conected to his own dreams of flying, bur we can assume he has enpathic powers or power mimicry (maybe both), but this is expeculating. About the difference between flight and levitation, levitate involves freing himself from gravity without propelling ways, with means he can jump and not fall, but cannot change directions without something else to propel him (this is like My Secret Identity.) At most, we could change it to air-walking (with is also almost the same thing)DinobotTM2 01:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok the floating,levitation, flight argument is really annoying. In most comics, movies, and tv shows, they wouldnt get that specific. At this point evidence points to power mimicing but at that point he could fly. He didnt do it very long, but the we should just call it flight. The defintitions of floating and levitation is just obsesive and nitpicky.
First off, he was flying, he walked out to his brother, indicating horizontal movement, not levitation. Secondly, seeing how it's been decided he mimics powers, I'd say it's time this section be removed.Knightrojen 07:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I feel it's worth noting that in the third episode, he was no longer able to fly. It seems certain that he can only mimic powers of people nearby him. I know Isaac wasn't with him in the hospital room when he drew the picture of himself flying to his brother, but if he was in the same building, he may have been close enough for power mimicry to occur. Should we change the power to "Power mimicry of those within certain distance?" Briham 13:35, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Cleaning up this Talk page

This Talk page has become over-wrote with duplicate comments, due in part to section headers that are ambiguous. I believe that we need to come to a quick agreement on how to best organize this page before it becomes too cluttered and utterly useless to all but the most fanatical of fanboys.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DJ Chair (talk • contribs).

Normally talk pages can be archived when they get big enough, but these discussions are mostly current and/or too recent to move. It's fine for now. Believe me - this talk page is nothing compared to some of the ones you'll see here. Kafziel Talk 16:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
yah, what Kafziel said. At the end of October I'd say do an "archive to date" since some of the unknowns about the characters will be clearer, and it will clear the page up for "Sweeps" month debates since all Nov. episodes of network shows tend to be new. -Markeer 16:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking it may be time to clean this talk page up now as it's getting very unruly. If my count is correct theirs like 4 or 5 sections for the symbol. Also all of the character specific topics should be moved to that characters talk page theres no reason for it to be on the shows main talk page it just gets too cluttered. Barring any objections I will go ahead and do the archive tonight around 12am EST -- Argash  |  talk  |  contribs  22:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
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