Talk:Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is supported by WikiProject Religion. This project provides a central approach to Religion-related subjects on wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details. | |
| B | This article has been rated as B on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) |
|
 |
This article is a frequent source of heated debate. Please try to keep a cool head when responding to comments on this talk page. How about a nice cup of tea?
|
Contents |
[edit] Archives
[edit] Known members
Arnold Bennett was a name given in I. Regardies What you should know about the Golden Dawn. There might be in fact, two Arnold Bennetts, I'm not sure :/ This is all I know about the subject matter of this individual. I'll see if I can spot anything else, in other books, or maybe a middle name. Zos 15:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
- Oh and yeah. My mistake not the alphabetical order. Zos 15:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
- While looking into Regardie's book, you might have considered listing Regardie himself as a known member. No matter that he was "in at the death" (so to speak) of the Order.
- Nuttyskin 21:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
-
- Well, actually, G.D. was dead by then. He was a member of Stella Matutina, IIRC. —Hanuman Das 22:37, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
-
How long does this list have to get before it's split off as a "List of known Golden Dawn members" page of its own?--The One True Fred 07:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Unicursal Hexagram (UH)
Right, it has been removed twice now the image (shown below) of the UH stating that the HOOTGD did not use it or it wasn't their symbol. Like I said, any half decent research by yourselves can find this out. Also, Any credible historians documenting the History of the Hermetic Order will had has given this information.
Tow smal examples are as follows:
- The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic (ltd edition) (Hardcover)
by Israel Regardie, Christopher S. Hyatt
- http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsunicursal.htm
- http://www.smokindragon.com/new_page_2.htm
- http://www.geocities.com/Paris/2110/unicursal.html
Crowly is credited with creating both design innacuratly by some historians. But, he amended the original and placed a five pettled rose in the middle. The original was devised and used by the HOOTGD.
The Unicursal Hexagram originates from the Golden Dawn document "Polygons and Polygrams". When Israel Regardie published his book "The Golden Dawn", he did not have access to document, and it was first published by Crowley, which lead to the generel misconception that Crowley originated the Unicursal Hexagram. Now however, he credits them with this.
Combined with the Marian Rose, the Unicursal Hexagram becomes Crowley's personal sigil, which is the magical union of 5 and 6 giving 11, the number of magick and new beginnings.
FK0071a 17:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
- None of the sites you give meets Wikipedia requirements for references. Please see WP:V - the editor wishing to add the material is responsible for supplying a credible reference. In this case, a historical work showing that the symbol was used by the Golden Dawn and NOT some successor organization, Stella Matutina, modern G.D. reconstruction, etc. That is, a book reference, with a page number so other editors can verify it. Per WP:V, any editor may remove uncited additions. The burden of proof is on the editor who wishes to make the addition. In any case, it doesn't belong at the top of the article! —Hanuman Das 04:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Values and Beliefs
Although there are a lot of good historical and topical explanations of the Order here, this page really needs some in-depth examination of the actual beliefs that ground the Order -- something that can give the reader some insight. Something to the effect of 'Religious Doctrine' in the Judaism article, or 'Beliefs' in Christianity and Islam. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Perditor (talk • contribs) .
- I'm not sure that's workable, Perditor. The HOotGD was not a religious organization, and as such did not deal with issues of religious doctrine or belief. As such, members followed various religions, such as Allan Bennet, a Buddhist, or Aleister_Crowley, functionally an Atheist (in that he did not seem to believe in a "personal God"). Many GD members were Christian (nominal or devout). Justin Eiler 21:07, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Picture
I suggest changing the picture that is shown in the article. It may be relevant for the article on MacGregor Mathers (actually it is also found there), but if the ritual is not a Golden Dawn ritual, then why is it here? My proposal is to use an image from an actual "historical GD" ritual, or of objects used in it. --Jdemarcos 11:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] More balanced?
Hi everyone,
The article on HOOTGD is pretty good, but I'd strongly suggest that you add the following:
1) That the Cipher MSS is undoubtedly fake, and was most likely created to lend an air of authority to the nascent order;
2) That the communications from 'Anna Sprengel' were likewise nonexistent, and again served only as a method of bolstering the idea that the Order had authority and lineage.
69.158.180.15 17:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
