Talk:Herb Green

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[edit] POV

Have a read of WP:NPOV.

resulting in the dishonourable destruction of Herb Green's career,

POV major time

Silvia Cartwright was awarded a DBE and later being made New Zealand's Governor-General from 2000 to 2006.

relevancy? did this case lead her to get a DBE? or is that speculation?

As health minister at the time, Helen Clark, a member of the governing Labour at the time of the Inquiry, now Prime Minister, had a large amount of influence over who would head the inquiry.

citation. How so?

Dame Silvia Cartwright was already a close friend of Helen Clark from the feminist meetings they attended [1], which is believed to have influenced the decision to give Dame Silvia Cartwright a DBE a few years after the Inquiry.

proof? that link leads to a login page (unverifable therefore). Believed to have? by whom?

It is also believed that the cronyism/nepotism that existed between Helen Clark and Dame Silvia Cartwright was behind the decision to appoint Dame Silvia Cartwright as Governor-General from 2000 to 2006: - as prime minister, Helen Clark would have had the full say over who would be the Governor-General.

that is potentially defamatory and unverifable.

The article has major POV problems. --Midnighttonight 05:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the link is meant to point to an opinion piece written in the Herald about a year ago about a supposed feminist conspiracy to infiltrate NZ politics, which the Herald later issued an apology and retraction about. I think the entire second paragraph should be deleted for POV and unverifiability. Tirana 10:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial statements

I'm going to add {{fact}} tags to statements that come under the description "Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately". If they aren't sourced within seven days I'll remove. They need inline citations, external links at the bottom of the article comes under "poorly sourced". - Shudda ^talk 09:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Most of the material is documented in the Cartwright report, and in Sandra Coney's article in Metro Magazine. I've linked to a summary of the Cartwright report as a citation for the second sentence. The rest of the first paragraph, dealing with Green's personal views, certainly needs sourcing and should be removed if such sources are not added.

For the second paragraph, what are you looking for? It should not be difficult to establish that the article appears in that issue of Metro Magazine. Is it necessary to find several newspapers which used the term "unfortunate experiment" over the next few months? It would be easy to do so, I think, but it would require time spent looking through archives in libraries. I can't see that this is strictly necessary. I will clarify that the Metro magazine article was not the first material published on the experiment.

I've rewritten the second paragraph with a source for the bulk of the material. Whether the newspapers used the term doesn't seem important enough to me to be worth my following up, so if no one else provides a ref for that sentence, it can go.-gadfium 19:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The term is well known enough to have passed into NZ English: e.g. Herceptin trial slammed as 'unfortunate experiment', Light-handed Regulation of Telecommunications--The Unfortunate Experiment, Greens urge Govt to reject ‘unfortunate experiment’. It's even made it into the international literature: e.g. "An unfortunate experiment": the New Zealand study of cancer of the cervix., A report from New Zealand: an "unfortunate experiment".. Maybe we can just rephrase the passage a bit, rather than deleting it. -- Avenue 02:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

While references at the bottom of the article are not nearly as rigorous as inline citations, the references given are useful, and the New Zealand Medical Journal certainly qualifies as a reliable source. [1] has a number of relevant documents available online.-gadfium 18:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know whether Green is still alive? He was described as a "bewildered old man" at the time of the Cartwright Inquiry in 1988, so I suspect he is not.-gadfium 19:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

He died in 2001, aged 84. See 'Unfortunate experiment' doctor dies. -- Avenue 01:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)