Talk:Helsinki

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Former FA This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and the next release version of Wikipedia. This Geography article has been rated B-Class on the assessment scale.
This article is supported by WikiProject Cities, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Cities on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. See comments for details.
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Helsinki as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Czech language Wikipedia.
To-do list for Helsinki: edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finland, a WikiProject related to the nation of Finland. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. See comments

If someone has info on the origin of the name "Helsinki", I'd be interested to know. - Quirk 18:13, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • The Swedish name for Helsinki is Helsingfors, and there are other places named Helsing-something in Scandinavia. I think they share a common ancestry, but I don't have a clue what the original "Helsing" is. — JIP | Talk 18:15, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • A rivulet (an å) was in the 14th ct known as Helsingå. It was a waterway (which was the only good ways in those days) between Tavastia and the Gulf of Finland. A church-village was established there, close to its mouth. -fors means rapid. Helsingfors was later moved some kilometers from the actual rapid for reasons I've forgotten. Around year 1900, the town Helsingfors, that had been the Grand Duchy's capital for some 80 years by then, due to urbanization became the predominantly Finnish-speaking town Helsinki. /Tuomas 09:36, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • The area, sparsely populated after earlier viking raids, was settled by people from the Swedish province of Helsingia (in Swedish Hälsingland, or especially earlier also Helsingland, which meant something like "holy land") in the 12th century, after Finland was concured by Sweden. Therefore the Parish of "Helsinge" (was known in Finnish "Helsingin maalaiskunta", in Swedish "Helsinge", the Parish of Helsinki, as opposed to "Helsingin kaupunki", in Swedish "Helsingfors" the "City of Helsinki".) When the city of Helsingfors was founded, it was founded beside the rapids (in Swedish fors) of the river Vantaa, in the Parish of Helsinge, therefore Helsingfors, Helsinge rapids. Later, when the City of Helsinki grew quickly after the war in 1940's-1960's, large parts of the Parish of Helsinki were annexed to it. However, also the population of the Parish grew, and it was first raised to a borough ("kauppala", I think borough is the closest translation, or maybe a market town) in 1972 and then to a city in 1974. As there couldn't be two cities with the same name, it was renamed as "Vantaa" in 1972 after the river flowing through it.
  • There is the Norse god Hel, mabye there is some sort of connection to her in the namesake of the Finnish Capital?

Contents

[edit] IAAF World Championships in Athletics

It should be mentioned that Helsinki has hosted the World Championships twice: 1983 and (currently running) 2005


[edit] Demographics

There is no demographics section in this article, so, could somebody to write it? I would like to know is the Finnish or Swedish language dominant in Helsinki? User:PANONIAN

  • I will be writing a demographics section at some point (unless someone else writes one first, of course). Meanwhile, approximately 87% of the population speak Finnish, 6.3% Swedish and the remaining 6.7% other languages. --KFP 15:02, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Buildings and structures in Helsinki

Should a separate category Category:Buildings and structures in Helsinki be created? It could be a subcategory of both Category:Helsinki and Category:Buildings and structures in Finland. There's no need to create further subcategories for different types of buildings and structures in Helsinki, as that would be overcategorisation. — JIP | Talk 10:37, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

  • I see this has already been done. There are also separate categories for Espoo, Jakobstad, Tampere and Turku, do we need subcategories for them as well? — JIP | Talk 17:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
    • I have created three subcategories for Turku. The other three cities seem to have too few articles to warrant subcategorisation. — JIP | Talk 19:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] article improvements

I think there's quite a bit of things that need to be changed in this article... allthough there is the needed information it is not as wel lcomposed as other similar articles about other cities...

A few things i noted:

[edit] Economy of helsinki

The link under economy of helsinki leads to "helsinki ICT and digital media culture", what's up with that? i know there are some IT-companies in Helsinki but still that has very little to do with Helsinki's economy! maybe the whole heading should be removed unless something regarding the economy is not written there.

Of course there is allot to write about the economy in helsinki, which at the moment isn't very good due to the "kuntaverouudistus" some years back.

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, i removed it from teh headings. Someone with the rights might want to remove the main article too. Gillis 19:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] architechture vs. culture

Under the heading "culture" about three fourths of the text is about Helsinki's architecture... maybe this should be another heading? and something mroe written about cultural events etc. in the city?

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, i changed this Gillis 19:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia vs. wikitravel

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a travel guide, that's what wikitravel's for. So maybe the "sites of intresest" part should be re-written to at least not contain clauses such as "If you are into architecture, Temppeliaukion kirkko is worth seeing. Built inside of stone, this unconventional church is regularly visited by tourists.".

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Education and universities

Why can't universities in Helsinki be a subheading of education in Helsinki? and also, universities is the wrong word when AMK-schools are also lsited, the correct term is institutions of higher education or something like that is it not?

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, i changed this Gillis 19:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

A doubt: "Half of the 41 upper secondary schools are private or state-owned." Who owns the other half? - sooraj 11 June 2006

Well my guess would be here that they are owned by the municipality of helsinki(which basically is state owned), atleast most gymnasiums are administered by "helsingin kaupungin opetusvirasto" while my guess would be that practical schools are directly state owned. But this is just a guess. And makes the text unclear any way you read it. In Helsinki or Finland as a whole there aren't many private schools "for the rich kids" as you might find in the states, due to moremoney in good public education. Gillis 19:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sites of interest

This section looks awful. It should either be made into an alphabetised list or reorganised with actual structure. — JIP | Talk 10:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

yeah as i noted udner "wikipedia vs. wikitravel", wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a travel-guide. All those places could maybe be placed in a category "places in helsinki" or something, but i feel they are in a bit in the wrong place in the Helsinki article itself. wikitravel.org is more suitable for such a list. In fact i think i'll add in http://wikitravel.org/en/Helsinki under See also.
The whole section is like a travel guide. Perhaps it should be trimmed down to just the most famous city parts, or deleted altogether? We could have a "List of sites in Helsinki" as a separate article. — JIP | Talk 19:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah i think something like that would be a good idea. Maybe a short "freeflowing" text (not a list) and then al ink to the list-article.

[edit] Helsinki Still Capital

Boy, Finland nearly lost this one . Add this in, folks!

Helsinki nearly lost its title as capital of Finland on April of 1967. Apparently, the government had put in a bad law, causing riots everywhere.

I'm surprised this isn't in school textbooks.

The above is by 65.0.202.213 (talk • contribs), whose only contributions are on December 3, 2005, to talk pages of several country and city articles. I personally have never heard of Helsinki almost losing capital status. This is to be taken with a grain of salt. — JIP | Talk 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Notable natives

Below are some past discussed names i moved from the improvementslist just so that we don't need to go through these names again. But i recommend that if you want to add a new name then before doing it take it up here as a subheader.

Below are some points that maybe should be reviewed before nominatign someone or adding someone the list (please feel free to contribute more points or dissagree, i am not trying to be a self-proclaimed profet here ;))

  • We are not speaking about just "helsinki natives" here, but notable natives, so please don't add just anyone who happends to have an wiki-article or is not very well known. The category Category:People_from_Helsinki serves that purpouse.
  • This is the international wikipedia, just because someone is very "famous" in finland does not mean they qualify for the list. Try adding only names that are known internationally to a "relatively broad audience".
  • It's Helsinki natives, not people living or associated to Helsinki, so as an example, the fact that Kimi Räikkönen owns a big flat in the center of Helsinki does not qualify him for the list. Discussion can be held on people who maybe were born somewhere else but have grown up and lived in Helsinki for a considerable time.
  • 15 minutes of fame does not qualify, although wikipedia is very frequently updated i think it is a bad move to list people who may be very passing phenomenons. The rasmus and Ville Valo are currently part of the list, but IMHO they are at the brink of being removed if they do not stay "trendy".
  • Keep it short, well as Helsinki is a city of .5-1 million inhabitants this should automatically apply if these pointers are followed, but try not to add names so that the list surpasses 10-15 names?

Add possible add's rm's for discussion here:

[edit] Ben Zyscowitz and Sami Garam

well ummh... it seems people have just splatted in their idols into the list since... well... is it really important on an itenrnational encyclopedia to note that Kirka and Zyscowitz are from helsinki? they are not that famous relly :) Sami Garam i can understand in the sence that he is well-renowned in Helsinki for being an expert in Helsinki-slang. Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

IMHO Kirka should stay there, but now that I think about it, Ben Zyskowicz (that's how it's spelled!) isn't really any more notable than any other Finnish MP. And I'm a Green League supporter anyway. =) — JIP | Talk 10:56, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, well i partly agree with you that Kirka should stay (he rocks ;)), but still if you loo kat what other cities have noted as "Notable natives" they are really world-wide superstars... while i doubt pretty much anyone outside of Finland has much of a clue who Kirka is... but not that it is a big deal really... and i agree that Ben should maybe be removed since it could be seen as unfair to consider him "notable" over a dozin other Helsinkians in parliament.

(I think we have decided on these as no)

[edit] Tove Jansson, Michael Monroe, AIV, R. Granit, Mika Waltari

I removed some people who I think are only famous in Finland. The president of course is staying, and so is Tove Jansson, whose Moomin books are famous pretty much throughout Europe, and in Japan too. Ville Valo is of course staying too but I'm not sure about Michael Monroe. Nobel-winning scientists are of course staying. But I removed Zyskowicz and the Rasmus. — JIP | Talk 19:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
I took the liberty of re-arranging it a bit. i Put the Rasmus back since they are at the moment still a bit pop around the world (try a google search and UK and SE fan-clubs appear), they can be removed in a month or two when they are "totally out" ;) i also arranged the list so that it comes a bit in order of importance (very roughly of course!). I think Mika Waltari deserves a place on the list, after all sinuhe the egyptian was qutie popular and was made into a Hollywood movie etc. so he is probably known by some litterature fans abroad too.Gillis 21:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay seems the following should be be No or No later:

  • Michael Monroe: No
  • The Rasmus: yes but for the time being
  • Ville Valo: yes, unless he goes out of being pop ;)

[edit] Linda Brava

Okay... all good to linda, but... is she really famous outside of finland... no... and is she really famous for her (probably quite nice) violin playing? no. Sorry but i don't think a centerfold is merits enough to be a "notable native" in the class of the others listed here. If Linda should be listed then i could probably say 50 other listable names.... any objections to removing her?

Gillis 16:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay i removed Linda Brava, any objections can be aired here. Gillis 18:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Linda Brava is a notable native

Linda has played as a soloist with orchestras like La Scala Orchestra, The BBC National Orchestra of Wales and Stockholm Sinfonietta.

She has been an international model for Björn Borg and Christian Lacroix.

Linda has toured and performed in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, USA, Canada, Great Britain, Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Switzerland, Scandinavia et cetera.

She has released a classical album worldwide after being singned up for EMI Classics.

Linda has graced the covers of numerous European fashion magazines, and newspapers and magazines like Gramophone (excellent and positive review on Linda's classical album), Classic FM (Linda was called as a violin sensation on the cover story), The Times, The New York Times, The Sunday Times (on the cover of its cultural enclosure), Evening Saturday, The Sun (Linda on it's cover and rated her above Vanessa Mae), The European, Hello! (a five-page article), ELLE, Vogue, Maxim, Café (coverstory), GQ, Q-Magazine, Details (named Linda the best newcomer in music- and sex-categories) and Playboy Magazine (a ten-page article with photos) have written about Linda´s musical career.

Linda has performed and been interviewed on many TV shows all over the Europe, USA and Asia.

Her performance in Royal Albert Hall was shown on BBC and Eurosport worldwide, and her performance in Unicef gala was shown on RTL.

Linda´s music video for Ave Maria is still one of the most watched on Classic FM TV. Classic FM TV´s star search gives you Linda as a one of the stars of the classical music.

I think that Linda deserves her place as a notable native.

User:80.222.58.49 on 07:11, 12 March 2006

Okay, Linda Brava has a fair career as a succesfull violinist, and i see you have kept quite well track of it as the vast majority of your edits have to dowith Linda, this showing she has her fanbase (uneless you are her or her manager, although your ip-address goes to Finland while she is located in sweden at the moment as far as i know). I still disagree though that she ranks among names such as Linus Torvalds, Tove Jansson or AI Virtanen, and as the last rever was not done by me it seems to be a position also held byt others. Gillis 17:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] The Rasmus

Atleast i haven't heard much about them lately in the "mainstream", so i took the liverty of removing them. I think the notable natives lsit should be more of a list of long-term notable people, not the makers of this years summer-hits. (Don't know if Ville Valo should stay, but he seems to at least be a little longer-lived artist. + The Rasmus is mentiond under the "culture" heading already.

Gillis 17:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pop-stars

I did a revert on the addition of some pop-signers fro mthe notable natives on 8.7.2006.

I feel that Ville Valo (lead singer of HIM), the rasmus or the 69 eyes are not really worth to make it on the current list. These are 15-minutes-of-fame pop-artists, and i feel the list should be of the kind that it doesen't need to be modified every sumemr depending on what's playing in teh radio, not that that in itself would be a problem, but i think having more people that have done things that they will be known of in 10,20 or 100 years is more encyclopedic. I think that the lead singer of the rasmus (or maybe it was HIM i can't remember) himself said when he heard they had been played more than jean sibelius that year "Well this is great and all, but i have no doubt about who of us two [he or sibelius] will be more played in 50 years."

There is a category with people from helsinki or helsinki births or something like that, that i think is notability enough for pop-stars. Also it is notable that many of the mentioned bands are already listed under "culture".

furthermore the names listed should be world-wide renowned people. And although the Finnish gossip-press wants to make it look otherwise Finnish pop-stars are not really big outside of Finland. Okay they might be played here and there but they aren't really "big names".

Gillis 19:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

- 15-minutes-of-fame pop-artists? HIM has been a million-selling rock band since 2000, and popular in Finland since the release of their debut. Their popularity is based on loyal fanbase, not so much on the radio hits. They are a big name, and I don't see any change coming there anytime soon. The Rasmus - I agree with you, their popularity is more sensitive to current trends and how well their songs get played on the radio, so I wouldn't add them to the list yet (of course things might change in future). The 69 Eyes aren’t really known outside Finland (and possibly Germany), so I wouldn’t list them either.

- I would also consider adding Michael Monroe back there. Hanoi Rocks was one of those bands that never sold well, but had a big influence on the scene and on other bands, and Michael Monroe is well known among rock-musicians. Of course this depends whether we’re listing of people who’ve had influence (in this case he should be added), or just names that are widely known everywhere in the world (in this case he doesn't qualify). Manatar 04:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

True, i agree with you in the way that if the list was compiled for only Finland HIM would no doubt be right in there. But honestly i am a bit doubtfull of a very large long-term fanbase of HIM outside of Finland, and not, as you put it for the rasmus, sensitive to current trends. It's very important to remember this list is on the en.wikipedia, where most people can be assumed not to come from Finland. Usually its best to evaluate pop-stars once they've dropped from the hit-charts for good, which is the case with Hanoi rocks. I would maybe be more in favour of adding in Michael Monroe, but i guess Hanoi Rocks is more the type of band that is known well to people into the rock scene, as they never really got that huge mainstream breakthrough. Gillis 14:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What if...

...we make a separate article about notable people from Helsinki? --TonyM ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!! 19:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

There is already one, or well it is a category(people from Helsinki or something like that i guess) And that is one of the reasons why i dont like adding a gazillion names to this article. Gillis 19:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Really, HIM and the rasmus

Come on having Ville Valo and Lauri Ylönen on the list is just stupid in my humble oppinion. Him is the more renowned and so far longer lasting of the two, but still the best HIM has done internationally could be pictured pretty much by "only" having made it to a gold record and as best somewhere around the top30 line on the billboards. And i doubt they will stay on the billboards around the world for many years. In comparison an article about Stockholm could probably present 10-20 people with similar merits(but doesen't). HIM and the rasmus are both listed under the culture part of the article and are part of the "list of people from Helsinki" article. I believe this is sufficient. Gillis 01:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bogus inhabitants?

It seems 62.165.185.143 has been adding tens of thousands of inhabitants into the population statistics of Helsinki without any given source (and checking the users other contribs probably to other cities too)

i have a hard time believing the population would have changed this radically in a year with a average population change of around zero percent. The below Finnish väestörekisterikeskus data also proves me right, i put in this as the amount of helsinkains, and reverted the data about greater helsinki.

http://www.vaestorekisterikeskus.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/B3E010C5FB6FB33AC2256FFC00464D40

But please be on the lookout for this kind of changes.

And 62.165.185.143, you are allowed to prove me wrong, but then present some viable government or other neutral source.

Gillis 11:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

"Gillis (→Economy - this paragraph is not really true. Since Helsinki has one of the smallest social inequalities of any city in the world it's size.)"

How come isn't it true? Please, could you specify a bit? :)

Helsinki *has* its fair share of problems, although not to the same extent as many other cities in the world. For example, its murder rate is highest in western Europe and there are more homeless people per 100,000 residents than in many American cities. Also, to my knowledge, violent crime has been on the increase recently. Let's not make the article too biased. ;)

One of the sources for murder rate http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/150000/images/_153988_murder_rate2-150.GIF

As of 2004, the number of homeless in Finland was estimated to be 7,700 single people and 350 families, of which more than half lived in Helsinki metropolitan area. Sadly, I don't have the link where this was compared with statistics in USA and Sweden immediately available, but if you wish I can try to locate it. It was shown at www.finlandforthought.net blog some time ago. http://www.ymparisto.fi/default.asp?node=17791&lan=en

Although you definitely are true that there aren't really proper slums in Helsinki, can we say it's unique in the world? Certain suburbs or areas in Helsinki would definitely qualify as areas (almost) explicitly inhabited by poorer people. The average income in some eastern suburbs, for example, was 15,000 euros per person. That's about one third of what the average income is in the neighbourhoods of southern Helsinki. Also, given the fact that crime rate among some immigrant groups his far above the national average, we could conclude that Helsinki isn't exactly egalitarian city, while the general situation there is extremely good.

Cheers! Thanks for the feedback.

-T


Well, 15,000 euros is not that much less than the overall Finnish national GDP per capita, which is $31,208 (this is US dollars = Monopoly money). The big inequality between (say) Eira and Kontula is not because Kontula is 'poor', it's because Eira is so much richer than the rest of the country.
The reason for the high murder rates is not social inequality, it's just that Finns in general tend to kill each other more often than most other people - it's in our genes. :) - ulayiti (talk) 15:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

True on both accounts, the murders don't usually take place on the streets but at people's homes, often between family members. However, they tend to be more common among less well-off people. Also, regarding the homelessness issue, I know that here the society provides at least something, so that the people don't have to try to manage by themselves alone. Still, I would stick to my claim that like all big cities in the world, there's difference between the various areas of Helsinki. :) It's not all that big problem, as I said (I did, after all, only write to the page that "the social inequality is on the rise"), but the article shouldn't be too much of a tourist advertisement. Looking at the economics part, I think it could more clearly and further underline the city's importance to Finland's economy.

If it's ok, I think I could write something about the services part later. I think the "Also police and fire departments serve citizens." has been there too long already. It has fair share of comedy value, though. :)

-T

I remember this slum thing being featured on the news at some point. I think it was an UN study or something like that. Of course the finnish news likes to hype anything good said about Finland, but i remember the point being that Helsinki has the smallest social inequality in the world of a city it's size(could have been capital too). Of course there is big differences between districts in Helsinki too etc. but they sure are smaller then in many other similar cities i've visited. You won't have to go further then to Stockholm to find bigger contrasts (much due to there being more immigrants there). Also Helsinki has seen much of the socialist politics for districts: homeless shelters are built in top-districts in order to get around social inequality, something i haven't seen elsewhere. And at the threat of sounding too right wing I think that with the highest social benefits in much of western europe i would say the homeless aren't a good meter of poorness, especially as i think there is a difference in homeless and homeless, when i came from scotland a few weeks back i met more beggers in glasgow and edinburgh in two days than i've done here in years. but my point: there are problems in Helsinki, but as they are the same or smaller than in msot other cities of similar size i think it's not really worth commenting on. Gillis 16:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


"And at the threat of sounding too right wing" Nothing wrong with that. :) Despite the impression I may have given my political views on Finnish political spectrum lean bit towards there... But nah, I fully understand your point now. Thanks for the explanation.

How should the Helsinki article as a whole be expanded and improved? I think we should use Wikipedia articles on well-covered cities like Berlin as an example. There's much to do, but I think that with some work it can look a whole lot better at the end of the summer.

-T

[edit] Trivia or no trivia

User Ulayiti removed the trivia part a month back or so... was this really necessary, is not having trivia in articles a general policy on wikipedia. I agree that there is useless trivia, but some could just as well be written under other headers, but would just be more accessible facts when put under trivia.

Gillis 19:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I figure this was caused by the too trivial trivia I added, for example Helsinki being the friendliest city in Finland. Ulayiti removed all the useful trivia along with the useless. JIP | Talk 11:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is the Sami name of Helsinki shown?

Sami isn't spoken in Helsinki... And spoken by only a few thousand in whole of Finland too.--80.186.100.180 22:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Because it's one of the three official languages in Finland? JIP | Talk 05:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually it is not, it is a recognized minority language as Roma and sign-language also are while not a official national language such as Finnish or Swedish. This said I still think it is worth a mention in the article somewhere. Gillis 10:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Agree. It's also notable for being one of the few languages where the name isn't "Helsinki" (or "Helsingfors") or a minor variation thereof. Whether it deserves to be in boldface in the lead sentence is a different matter — it doesn't bother me having it there, but I don't really care much either way. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 13:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
The reason it was there is that 1) it adhered to the way the "native name" has been added to numerous other articles and 2) Helsinki has one of the most sizeable populations of Sámi in Finland. That said, the same rule should probably be applied to the Finnish version of this article, where we have:
Helsinki (ruots. Helsingfors, puhekielessä Stadi tai etenkin Helsingin ulkopuolella Hesa) on Suomen pääkaupunki.
Helsset should be added to the Finnish article, as well.
Perhaps it would be a better idea to have a list or table listing the names in the 3 Sámi languages, in stadi and in slang because right now that addition does not really fit in the paragraph where it is. If anyone know what it is in Roma, that would be a good insertion, too. -Yupik 13:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Sámi is spoken in Helsinki; ignorance of that fact is not really an excuse. For that matter, Northern Sámi is spoken by so many people that there is actually a language immersion program for children here (kielipesä). I can't say what the situation is for Inari Sámi, but there are also a number of Skolt speakers here. -Yupik 07:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Walking on ice

In winter, I and my father routinely go on skiing trips on the sea ice in Haukilahti, Espoo, very near Helsinki. We never have to worry about the ice breaking or melting, or otherwise falling into the sea. So therefore the statement "much caution must be taken" struck me as odd. But it is true that because of all the ship traffic, and complete urbanisation of the entire downtown Helsinki (Haukilahti is a more rural district), the ice in Helsinki never grows as thick and undisturbed as the ice in Espoo. There is ship traffic from Helsinki to Stockholm (see Ruotsinlaiva) all year round. The only ship traffic in Espoo is intra-city, and even that only in summer. JIP | Talk 20:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes and places with strong currents and for instance places outside power plants where they dump out warm water don't have to be all that thick, and for someone foreign this might not be directly obvious, as was seen last winter when someone from Spain nearly drowned when out walking on the ice in the wrong place. Gillis 22:13, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] New category for the nordic/scandinavian capitals?

I would like to suggest a new category for the capital cities of Scandinavia/the Nordic, including Copenhagen, Helsinki, Oslo, Reykjavik and Stockholm. (I've posted this message on the talk page for each city.) Comments, anyone? /M.O (u) (t) 15:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I have notthing against a category itself. But it might be wiser to call it "capital cities of the nordic countries", as in a strict sence scandinavia should be only sweden-norway and maybe denmark, although Finland and Iceland are usually coutned in due to the common cultural heritage. Although it seems it is quite debated in many articles whetever Finland and Iceland should be should be addressed as "scandinavien" on wikipedia, but afaik the common sensus is to count in Finland and iceland into "the nordic countries". Gillis 16:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Complement EU

On December 16, 2004, The World Factbook, a publication of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) added an entry for the European Union. [1] According to the CIA, the European Union was added because the EU "continues to accrue more nation-like characteristics for itself". Their reasoning was explained in this small statement in the introduction:

The evolution of the European Union (EU) from a regional economic agreement among six neighboring states in 1951 to today's supranational organization of 25 countries across the European continent stands as an unprecedented phenomenon in the annals of history... ... for such a large number of nation-states to cede some of their sovereignty to an overarching entity is truly unique... ... the EU ... has many of the attributes associated with independent nations: its own flag, anthem, founding date, and currency, as well as an incipient common foreign and security policy in its dealings with other nations. In the future, many of these nation-like characteristics are likely to be expanded. Thus, inclusion of basic intelligence on the EU has been deemed appropriate as a new, separate entity in The World Factbook. However, because of the EU's special status, this description is placed after the regular country entries.

I might add that EU citizens have EU- numberplates, -passports, drivinglicense, the EU institutions, and regular election. I hope you support the small extension I made... all the best Lear 21 18:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The EU is not a country, look it up. I have reverted your edit, as others have done on the Berlin article. Please stop pushing your POV. --Bob 01:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Is it possible for us to get a Helsinki accent recording of the city's Swedish name? Because the one now sounds awfully like Sweden-Swedish, especially the "fors" part. Andelarion 17:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Yeah, you are correct on that one, if someone pronounced Helsingfors like that in Helsingfors he most likely would have just gotten off the Ruotsinlaiva. Also the Finnish language pronounciation is incorrect, or wended before the person ended the word (she says "Helsin" right now). Gillis 19:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I absolutely agree, it sounds very very odd! As it's now I think Helsingfors is spoken by someone with Stockholm accent while it should of course be spoken in the local Fenno-Swedish accent. I could possibly provide the audio clip myself. However I did not grow up in Helsingfors, so I should disqualify myself? I can let a friend speak. My question is: How do I submit such an audio file? Drquick 12:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Helsingin?

The intro sentence claims that the Finnish name is "Helsinki" and the Swedish name is "Helsingfors". If so, then what does the "Helsingin", which is neither of those two spellings, in the city template mean? If you answer this question here, could you please let me know on my user talk page so I'll know to come check this page? Thanks. —Lowellian (reply) 12:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

  • "Helsingin" is the Finnish language genitive case of "Helsinki". So, "Helsingin" means "of Helsinki" or "Helsinki's" and in this case, "Helsingin kaupunki" translates to "City of Helsinki". --KFP (talk | contribs) 13:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Ah, okay, makes sense. Thank you! —Lowellian (reply) 13:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../h/e/l/Talk%7EHelsinki_9011.html"