Talk:Help! (album)

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[edit] Text removed

Removed:

"You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" is a gripping Lennon vocal; "Youre Gonna Lose That Girl" is a spiteful Lennon vocal;

and

His songs seem to be getting better with this album, as compared to the ones he wrote in 1963 and 1964.

Other stuff I left but could use more neutralizing and/or attribution. KQ

Nice addition about the lifeguard. Let's see an article on usage of the word Help! now. KQ

[edit] Q magazine review

Excuse me... but doesn't Q magazine give Help 3 stars rather that 5 stars? I'll change it atm anyway... Estel

[edit] NJUV?

Is there any significance to the NJUV word, or did the Beatles just not know the proper semaphore positions? I always thought the album cover spelled HELP in semaphore. — JIP | Talk 10:09, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I read somewhere that they actually tried the positions for spelling HELP during the photo shoot but this other random sequence just ended up looking better. Unfortunately I don't have the source handy. (And a bit of speculation from my part: NJUV actually "looks" more like HELP, especially the U->L) --LodeRunner 23:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Samples

I don't know wikipedia's stand on this generally but I am a little concerned about the use of .ogg files in this article (again, i don't know whether this occurs in other articles as well, it is just something I just noticed).

While I am a fan of ogg (am i am sure many other wikipedia contributors are (open-source and all that)) I think using mp3 would be a much better solution. Most computer users (and hence most wikipedia users) are not able to play ogg files (they require an add-on) so in the interests of accessibility I think mp3 should be used.

Any comments, corrections etc are of course welcome. Peteremcc 09:41, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

MP3 has patent issues and my understanding is that MP3 files are not welcome on Wikipedia as a result. --kingboyk 19:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure many media players will play .ogg files. At least I know Winamp does, and that program is pretty popular among computer users.--Fightingirish 15:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] beatles help album

my wife and son purchased a copy of help from a vendor on ebay.i question its authenticity because i can find no date on the album itself or the album picture sleeve.the vendor claims that capitol records did not date albums or sleeves. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.96.218.226 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 30 December 2005 .

No one answered this at the time, and there is no easy way to contact an anonymous editor (based on contribs review this was probably their only contribution), but for future reference this sort of question probably would be better answered at the Wikipedia:reference desk... people don't always watch every article to the level of being able to answer random questions in a timely manner ++Lar: t/c 14:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

I think it would be best to split this page up in Help! (film) and Help! (album) and then turn this into an disambiguation page for those as well as the song and the magazine. -- Dissident (Talk) 20:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I've demerged the film stuff to Help! (film). The dab idea is alright, I suppose, but there would be lots of links to fix... and I daresay most of them would be about the Beatles, not the magazine. --kingboyk 00:42, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've done the move now too, and will start creating a dab page and fixing links. --kingboyk 19:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Should both articles be in both the film and album projects? Added The Beatles project. ++Lar: t/c 03:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American release error

The article states that the score includes Ken Thorne's arrangement of Monty Norman's "James Bond Theme." This is incorrect and should be removed. A simple listen to the James Bond Theme followed by the Thorne intro to "Help!" proves that the latter is an original by Thorne, albeit designed to sound similar to the Norman. Rich 03:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The 'sounding similar' may be the reason Norman got the songwriting credit. Steelbeard1 10:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

But he didn't. Norman's name appears nowhere on the U.S. "Help!" album. Rich 04:52, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed the "James Bond Theme" reference from the listing, but I see you put it back, Steelbeard. I maintain that it does not belong. While the intrumental intro is clearly designed to sound similar to the James Bond Theme, it is NOT the James Bond Theme, and it was NOT composed by Monty Norman. It is an original piece by Ken Thorne. That's why it isn't listed on the "Help!" soundtrack as the Norman piece. You noted elsewhere that you thought it important to list it as such, but there is no reason to list it as such. Rich 20:32, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want to list something like "Instrumental Intro" and credit it to Thorne, I can see that. Rich 20:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved discussion to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Beatles#Help! (album) American version to develop a consensus. Steelbeard1 23:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

This reference in the article had been changed to refer to Thorne's intro as "James Bond-ish," but now I see it has been changed, and is referred to as Ken Thorne's arrangement of the James Bond Theme. I reiterate: this is incorrect. The guitar portion of that intro sounds like a deliberate tip of the hat to the James Bond theme, but it is not The James Bond Theme. It is an original piece by Thorne, and I maintain that it should be noted as such, not as an arrangement by Thorne of an exisiting piece. Thorne's intro has one sequence of five notes in common with the James Bond theme, but they are NOT the same piece of music. Rich 06:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semaphore discrepensies

George's hands appear to be halfway between the N and R positions, maybe this should be added to the article. Also, it's possible that Ringo is signaling a D. Finally, the LPUS comment is wrong as George's arms are at exactly the same height. An S would have the right arm dropped to a 7 o'clock position. BocoROTH 03:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics Links

The following discussion was posted on Wikipedia's main Beatles discussion page, and appears to also be relevant here:

Are links to lyrics sites appropriate? I have noticed them in some music articles, and I believe they do add value to the listings. I added one at the bottom of the external links section. In the interest of full disclosure, it is a website I maintain. If the interest is positive, I would likely add lyrics links to other musical articles where appropriate. Shadar 19:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that lyrics sites reprint lyrics in violation of copyright, and that's why we're not supposed to link to them. The relevant guideline to check would be Wikipedia:External links, but that page doesn't directly address this question. I'm going to post a question to the discussion page there, and perhaps someone can tell us whether my idea is correct or mistaken. In the latter case, I'd be happy to restore the link myself. -GTBacchus^(talk) 19:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I posted my question Wikipedia talk:External links#Lyrics sites here. -GTBacchus^(talk) 19:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

If the decision is made that lyrics sites are inappropriate due to the copyright violation issue, I would like to delete the links I found. As a newbie, it would give me good practice in editting. Is that an appropriate action for a new user, and is there a FAQ on deletion etiquette? Shadar 19:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, we received an answer, and it refers us to item #2 at Wikipedia:External links#Restrictions on linking. It comes down to whether the lyrics are actually under copyright or in the public domain, and whether or not the site in question has the copyright holder's permission to publish the lyrics. If you'd like to remove links to lyrics sites that are in violation of our copyright policy, then you're welcome to do so. The best way to avoid offense is probably to mention the External links policy (or WP:EL, as we like to call it) in your edit summary. -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I can certainly understand that decision. It turns out I violated the self interest clause anyways, since I posted my own site. I should have recommended the change in talk, and then if someone agreed they could make the change. Thanks for the help with this, GTBacchus. Shadar 17:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I notice that there are also links to lyric pages on each of the Wikipedia Beatles album pages. I should have time to fix those tonight. I'll follow the above advice of GTBacchus in mentioning the WP:EL, and refer to this discussion on each album discussion page. InnerRevolution7 02:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I have made the above-stated change. InnerRevolution7 03:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing Album Cover Section

I don't understand how the semaphore can spell out "NJUV," but could also be "LPUS," according to the first section, which later goes on to say the semaphore doesn't say anything at all. Which is it?