Talk:Heckler & Koch PSG1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Related task forces (general topics): Military technology and engineering task force Weaponry task force

Contents 1 Bullet casing flying out 2 Video Game References 3 Fiction references 4 PSG/90

[edit] Bullet casing flying out

"[...] the bullet casing is ejected with substantial force, reportedly enough to throw it several meters sideways. While this is generally not an issue law enforcement snipers, it greatly compromises the military use of the rifle."

If I understand correctly, the "empty bullet", or the bottom part of the unshot bullet flies out fast. Why does that compromise the military use? Several meters doesn't sound like much either. Is the article trying to say that the sideways recyle is too substantial for multiple shots at the same target or target area? Please elaborate. —kooo July 2, 2005 21:38 (UTC)

Is it possible that the metallic glint of the casing could give away the position of a military sniper? I've heard that's a reason why the military favors bolt action rifles--the casing can be ejected when the sniper feels it is most safe to do so.--Daveswagon 3 July 2005 06:14 (UTC)

Perhaps. The bullet casing is also extremely hot, which could have an effect in a dry forest or so. I still wonder what the original author means. —kooo July 3, 2005 10:31 (UTC)

Thats a good point, and (as Kooo was good enough to guess/contact me) I did write this. What I was talking about was the empty bullet casing (or empty shell), being ejected (after firing) with force enough to throw it a good distance, at least substantially longer then regular semi-auto precision rifles. Herein lies the problem with the statment (that you have rightly questioned) - Although I remember quite positively reading that one (of a few) reason(s) the psg-1 was unsuitable for use by military snipers was the ejecting brass could give away the soldiers position. From memory, the article stated the brass was thrown 20 yards after firing, although because I can't find the reference, I couldn't go so far as to write something so specific on memory. Unfortunatly I can't confirm this (as I have never fired a psg-1, again unfortunatly) so I it's open to revision if you don't think this is substantial enough. Essjay-R 3 July 2005 15:58 (UTC)

I must also add, aside from simply hurling bullet casings around I also can only guess why this would be a particular problem. Noise or movement I assumed, however why this is a problem when you've just fired a large rifle is anyones guess. Essjay-R 3 July 2005 16:07 (UTC)

One thing that comes to my mind is also that when you push something with a force, it pushes back with a counter-force; therefore in this case the PSG1 would propably jump significantly outwards from the ejecting brass, or more significantly than with assault rifles or other guns. Military snipers might need to shoot more than once, police snipers probably count to "one shot, one downing" (I guess they would prefer not killing the target, but neutralizing it). If there are many targets, there would also be many police snipers, all counting to shoot at the same time. Ah oops, off-topic. Forgive me ;-) —kooo July 4, 2005 18:17 (UTC)

Who knows, even if it throws shell casings 20 yards sideways - I think price is the main limiting factor on military use of the psg-1. That's what will (or has) killed the lockheed F-22, so even with a superior product the economics of such devices rules their use. Post me a message if you happen to read anything to support the shell throwing idea though. Essjay-R 5 July 2005 17:01 (UTC)

NEWSFLASH! (I can't believe we didn't check this sooner) This article on Mel's Sniper central (on of the external links on this page) confirms that a psg-1 will throw ejected brass a distance of 10 metres after each shot. It also cites the possibility of giving away a snipers location as the primary reason this would be a problem. Although not definate proof, it's at least a reference. I'll update the wiki page now. Essjay-R 5 July 2005 17:08 (UTC)

Great, case solved :-) —kooo July 5, 2005 18:43 (UTC)

[edit] Video Game References

I believe that besides Metal Gear Solid, the "sniper" light gun featured in the Silent Scope series are at least based on the PSG-1.

Is "Video Game References" really something we want into an encyclopedia article? —kooo 11:40, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fiction references

I have moved the list of references to films/tv/video games to a new pages and replaced the section with a link to it. This is to keep it the article clean and uniform with other similar articles and List of firearms in video games pages. (see Heckler & Koch MP5 / Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture or MAC-10 / MAC-10 in popular culture) for similar ...in popular culture pages) and also to help with inclusion into the List of firearms in filmsDeon Steyn 09:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PSG/90

Why is the PSG/90 under "See also"? Aside from the small similarities in the abbreviations and names, does these rifles even have anything to do with eachother? 213.64.18.236 16:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)