Talk:Hawiye

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There have been a number of back-and-forth edits regarding which Somali clan is the largest (e.g. Darod or Hawiye). I haven't been able to come up with any good numbers, myself, but I did cite a couple of sources. This didn't seem to help with the back-and-forth edits. However, in the absence of other citations I will continue to revert to a version that includes them. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Digil and Mirifle Clans

Digil and Mirifle clans who inhabit most of the Southern portion of Somalia are considered to be the largest clan all over Somalia. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 203.135.0.66 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Is there a reference for it somewhere? Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 18:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Digil and Mirifle clans (sometimes collectively known as Rahawein) are the largest clans in Somalia. They inhabit the southern portion of the Somali penninsula. They are about 25% of the Somali population of 10 million people. Generally, they are very peaceful people. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 203.135.0.66 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Again, a reference would be helpful. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population estimates

An anonymous editor had added the following:

"The Hawiye population in east Africa is viewed on the whole 6-8 million people, 1.3 million in Somalia capital Mogadishu."

This really needs to cite a reference. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Darood is the largest

Darood is the largest Somali clan, however Hawiye is the biggest INSIDE Somalia. The Darood Subclan of Ogaden is probably bigger than half of Hawiye combined. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.152.13.117 (talk • contribs) 00:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It would be more helpful if you could cite a reliable source for this information. Also, I'm not sure what you mean in your second sentence; combined with what? Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

As with other articles regarding Somali clans, the list of subclans is becoming quite lengthy. Can all of these be considered major subclans? I think there should also be some actual threshold of notability for inclusion under "Notable Hawiye people." For one, I have deleted the name of a mayor. Unless this person is a notable mayor, or it's a particularly notable town, I don't think this warrants inclusion. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

Apparently, Sheikhaal may or may not be a Hawiye subclan. This seems to be in dispute so I have tagged the listing accordingly . -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean Up Tag could be removed

The information about the Hawiye subclans is now referenced and reliable, so the clean up tag could be removed. S710 08:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I've gone further and used footnotes. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abdullahi Isse

When reverting this article today I noticed that under "Notable Hawiye persons" it says Abdullahi Isse was UN Prime Minister. Now based on the info at List of notable Somali leaders, Somalia, here and here it looks as if there are two errors. It would appear that his name is Abdullahi Issa (with an "a") and he was the Somali Prime Minister "under the United Nations Trusteeship Administration". The way the sentence is now it makes it appear that Abdullahi Isse was Prime Minister of the United Nations and of course there is no such position. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 15:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference needs source

I've removed the following reference because the source is unknown:

  • Somalia Tribal Study, 2005, [1]

The URL is, apparently, for a hosting service, and the document itself does not identify its own author(s) nor publisher. I suspect it is a government document as it says "Unclassified" but a Google search doesn't provide any clues. We need to know the source in order to consider this a verifiable reference. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Refence has a source

The source of the reference is known. It is this document called Tribal Study. The author and publisher are not known, that another matter. There is often valuable information coming from anonymous authors (take Wikipedia for instance). That does not mean that the facts in this document are not verifiable. I would regret it very much if you leave this reference out. It is the only source that gives a survey of the different subdivions that are made of the same clans in different regions of Somalia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by S710 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Comparison of clan size

In this article Wikipedia gives the basic facts about the Hawiye. If you have reliable facts about the numbers of the different clans, they could also be in the articles. The proper place to compare those numbers (if we had them) would be in the article Somali clan or Somalia. But without precise numbers (plus or minus 50.000) it is meaningless to state that the Hawiye is the largest clan. The article now refers to a source (for this topic of size) that is older than five years old. That is completely out of date. The only other source is the CIA-factbook. That source is not of any use either because it does not give its definitions of the clans (which clans are counted as being Hawiye or Rahanweyn or Isaaq). Depending on those definitions you get a completely different number. The information is referenced but dubious. That's why I thought it better to leave it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by S710 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Population of Somalia

Within the past day or so, the population of Somalia purported to belong to the Hawiye clan has been changed from 25% to 45% then 40%. This map indicates 25% so in the absence of another verifiable source I will change it back to that figure. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HAWIYE is the largest without dispute..

i don't beleive lies written the fact of the clans in Somalia, however you can see that the hawiye is the largest clan of Somalia , you can seee how Darod who were ruling that country 4for 21 years were out-numbered in the arena of fighting that still worries them when they hear the Hawiye is moving towards Darod, no hard feeling but this is the wat Somalis respect.... what ever you say or write the reality is unscapeable " If Darod is the largest clan let us seee wat you can" only the thruth can make you freee... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.209.157.139 (talk • contribs).

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