Talk:Havana Conference

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The Havana Conference is depicted in great detail in Lucianos auto biography "The last testament of Lucky Luciano". This article seems to rely heavily on that book as its only source. (Or rather, the CrimeMagazine.com story that is referenced.) Relying on a convicted gangsters own account of world events might not be the best way to go, for instance it is certainly not the case that Lucky was against drugs. (See article on Lucky Luciano, which seems to be more balanced.) Certainly many other things in this article will be of his personal view as well. For instance reading (similarly biased, no doubt) autobiographies of other mobster in New York, Luciano is a very distance figure, certainly not an acting chief in their minds. Hingo

Not only that but it has been proved that the author of that book was in fact fraudulent and that it was not an autobiography as much as a work of fiction. Informant Joe Valachi notes that Vito Genovese in fact had the backing of Luciano during this period but that Costello had grown too powerful to outright unseat.

Contents 1 Vandalism 2 Bugsy 3 Sources? 4 Terribly Written 5 Flamingo hotel

[edit] Vandalism

Article has been vandalized. —This unsigned comment was added by 200.159.136.120 (talk • contribs) 22:58, 24 March, 2006.

In what way, and by whom? AnnH ♫ 23:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bugsy

This article implies that Siegel was murdered with a rifle, but his page give the murder weapon as a WW2 pistol. 124.185.79.206 06:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

His page is wrong. It was a carbine rifle..

[edit] Sources?

This article is interesting but doesn't give even a hint as to its sources. There are references, but in an article of this length and detail there really needs to be footnotes.--Mantanmoreland 22:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terribly Written

This article is terribly written. Spelling mistakes, typos, garbled grammar - normally I would make a few changes to help but this is ridiculous. It defies imagination that someone could 'contribute' this article without being more conscientious. Moreover, the 'tale' told here rings like mythology, wherefore the comment immediately below rings very true. This article seems to be the work of an uneducated, sloppy, semi-illiterate fanboy.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.1.120.22 (talk) 02:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree, except for the invective. It needs a lot of work and I have no idea where this article came from. I am tempted to nom it for deletion, but I would like to give the creator of the article an opportunity to provide sourcing.--Mantanmoreland 04:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This article is hopelessly unreadable. One of the authors, Little Joe Shots, in fact tries to rewrite the history of the American Cosa Nostra (or rather his version of it) and does not limit himself to the actual Havana conference. He also does not mention his sources, does not check his grammar and spelling, nor has the courtesy to properly wikify the links. -- Mafia Expert 23:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

My main concern is accuracy. I'd like to know where all this stuff comes from. If it can't be verified I think it might have to be reluctantly nominated for deletion. That is usually not done for articles that have been around for a while, however.--Mantanmoreland 17:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Most of the writing is poor and needs fixing. Mantanmoreland, you write "I'd like to know where all this stuff comes from". Here is the reference section...

• Reid, Ed. Mafia, Cosa Nostra, Syndicate. Random House, 1954.
• Sondern Jr., Frederic. Brotherhood of Evil: The Mafia. Manor Books, 1972.
• Gage, Nicholas. Mafia U.S.A. Dell Publishing Company, 1972.
• Cook, Fred. Mafia. Fawcett Gold Medal, 1973.
• Maclean, Don. Pictorial History of the Mafia. Pyramid Books, 1974.
• Gosch, Martin. & Hammer, Richard. The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano. Dell Publishing Company, 1974.
• Hammer, Richard. Playboys Illustrated History of Organized Crime. Playboy Press, 1975.
• Roemer, William. War of the Godfathers. Ivy Books, 1990.
• Sifakis, Carl. The Mafia Encyclopedia: Second Edition. Checkmark Books, 1999.
• Repetto, Thomas. The American Mafia: A History of It's Rise to Power. Henry Holt & Company, 2004

The Havana conference of 1946 is well documented and is an important part of Cuban history. [1] [2] [3]--Zleitzen 17:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, all very poor and unreliable sources. I really think some kind of action has to be taken, this guy is not only trashing this article, but others as well, the Apalachin Conference for instance. Moreover, he does not respond to questions about his sources or requests to do something about his grammar and spelling. -- Mafia Expert 19:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ooops... almost edit conflict. I share Mafia Expert's concerns. The "references" section is actually a bibliography. What's needed are references within the text, showing what portion of the article is attributable to what book. Since this is a historical event, journalistic mentions of the Havana conference sixty years later -- probably using this article as a source -- are not good enough. Ditto for May for the same reason. As I said, I don't favor deleting this article, and would much prefer finding sources and inserting them as footnotes.--Mantanmoreland 19:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, in fairness to Little Joe Shots, the article took shape long before he arrived on the scene. The original author was an IP. --Mantanmoreland 19:54, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flamingo hotel

The information on this page about Lansky's involvement in the Flamingo contradicts that found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamingo_Las_Vegas. The Siegel page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_%22Bugsy%22_Siegel also suggests Siegel initiated the plan. Anyone possess knowledge of which version is correct? Ericoides 11:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Haven't the foggiest. Good question, as neither of these two lengthy articles you mention cite their sources. --Mantanmoreland 15:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)