Talk:Harry Potter fan fiction

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Contents 1 Untitled 1 2 Rewrite 3 Issues with article 4 Sub Tag? 5 Fanfic "My Immortal" 6 Untitled 2 7 Im working on the page 8 Redirect 9 Discussion About Redirect Starts Here 9.1 Problems with current version of article

[edit] Untitled 1

Great article! I made a few additions to it. I created the point "Countries" so we can write about Harry Potter Fanfic in different countries and about the differences, and I started out with HP fanfic in Japan. Perhaps someone else wants to write about, let's say Russian fanfic or compare British to American fanfic, or something else...

Second, I changed the point locations to press, because I think the important thing about this point is not the location where the article appeared, but the article itself. And I added a second article about the topic. (Tibbykatze 23:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Rewrite

Personally, I think this article needs a complete rewrite. It has some good points, but it reads like a bunch of unrelated paragraphs. I think we should put up a rewrite tag, to replace the cleanup tag currently on the page. I would like to see if anyone agrees with me. 71.193.137.200 03:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. I think I'll start reworking this entire page.--Cattlyst 11:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Issues with article

I have removed the section about notable people in this article as it was essentially opinion and not notable information. I also removed the two overly large images as they appeared to be original research and were unnecessary. The article itself needs references and citations for a lot of what it says and also needs copyediting in places. michaelCurtis ^talk+ _{contributions} 10:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

There's still a whole paragraph about different fanfiction authors migrating to the Harry Potter fandom which I think is entirely irrelevant. This article should be explaining different pairing portmanteaus (eg. "Snarry" is a fanfiction featuring Snape and Harry romantically paired). There should probably been some references to what Rowling has said on the subject (and she's said quite a bit). Personally, I don't see how different countries add to the article unless there are notable differences in the type or style of fanfiction they write, other than the fact that it may be in a different language. For example, Harry/Draco fanfic is pretty common in English as well. Information about Japanese subgenres would go better under pairing headings. insurreality 13:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with insurreality, a brief summery of the various 'main types' of HP fanfiction would be good for this article, even if it was just a few sentances. In fact, I think keeping it short would be a very good idea. Morgrim 14:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sub Tag?

I think this article has grown to the point where it no longer warrents the stub tag, although I still think there is room for improvement. Anyone disagree? Morgrim 14:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fanfic "My Immortal"

[1] This is the most popular fanfic on fanfiction.net. It has more than 3200 reviews right now. Anyone think this should be included in the article? Heartdreamer 03:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. It's one of the best Harry Potter fanfiction parodies I've ever read. --Meestah-k 03:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hells yeah it should! -- Senor Clean.

Oh yes. It's quite a notable parody; it's been on Something Awful, she has fanclubs, she... yeah. We could almost make an article on it. XD; I've seen articles on less notable things... Misaki Suzuhara 20:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely. The fanfiction with the most reviews at FF.Net, isn't it? It really should be included. Right now it has 3306 reviews. -- SS.

It's one of the most hillarious fics I've read in a LONG WHILE! I swear, whenever I feel low, I read it and a smile once more graces my tear stained face! Thank you, Enoby! You've made my day! *snorfle* -Rashomon Aetelier (No, seriously. The fic KILLS me.)

The popularity of the fic is questionable. While the fic does have over 3400 reviews, most of these are derogatory comments about the writing in the fic. The fic itself is a horrible piece of work. Bad grammar and spelling, no character development. Every canon character is insanely out of character. For example, Dumbledore uses the term "motherfukers". (note the missing c.) Some things that should have had more consequences (the first sexual intercourse between Draco and Ebony) are being trivialized. The author of this fanfic displays an unusually high amount of sloppy writing, and the leading lady is probably the one character with the highest Mary Sue score of all time. Read it for the comedic value, or just to reassure yourself that no matter what tripe you can come up with, at least it can't be as bad as this.

I believe that the extremely numerous flaws are intentional. Though, because the author does not state that it is a parody, it falls under the category of a troll -- an extremely talented one. It's a very entertaining read, if you don't take anything seriously.

Yesterday was My Immortal's first anniversary. It recieved 4280 reviews in just one year. 22:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Untitled 2

Well I just went through and rewrote most of this article. Someone was doing some minor edits at the same time, I hope that I've included all of those changes too. This page still needs a bit of work, and the websites section is somewhat biased, because I've not used all of those mentioned. Cattlyst 15:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Im working on the page

I am re-writing the article to the wikipedia standards right now. Who ever wrote this is the begining did NOT now how to write it. I dont see how Slash has anything to do with HP fan fiction, so i got rid of it and mentioned it in the aludts section.

Dell970 out.

Slash has a lot to do with Harry Potter fan fiction, there are endless sites with homosexual pairings. Don't leave it out if you don't like the fanfiction, we need a wholesome encyclopedia here. Take a look at this article, and at Slash fiction#Slash Controversy. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 21:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect

Following the unilateral action of an editor in making this article a redirect, I've restored it, pending any consensus. --Dweller 10:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion About Redirect Starts Here

• Keep. I voice my disagreement that the article be redirected. I propose that we improve on the article itself and verify any things that need to be rather than redirect. Fan fiction is an aspect of fandom important enough to warrant its own article, as evidenced by the massive amount that is out there, the myriad yahoo groups and blogs devoted to it, and the mindblowing subculture that exists around it (I myself am part of it, as I'm sure many other contributors to this article may be). On the contrary to being too erudite, I believe this article may have the potential of explaining this noteworthy phenomenon to fans and non fans a like. Labrt2004 11:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
• I suppose it was a bit hasty of me to redirect this page, hinging on being too bold, and my apologies. However, I wasn't redirecting the page without merging the information -- I looked at both this article and the existing section at the Harry Potter fandom page and tried to keep any information I found really vital and tried to cite all the information which would pass notability standards and could still be verified. There was a big discussion now archived at Talk:Harry Potter fandom re notability guidelines, the result of which is on the current version of the talk page. A lot of this information was too fandom-y (like six subsections on the "major" FF websites). I think that the only thing which might merit mention in the fandom article which I did not transfer is about the Japanese fanfiction, but I wasn't able to easily find a source for that. Anyway, when you take out all the information on the individual web sites, or at least cut it down to a sentence or two each, it's too short for a main article, and of course belongs in the fandom article anyway, so I figured it should just remain there without a {{main}} link. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 19:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep: I have several major issues with this redirect. Firstly, I believe Harry Potter fan fiction warrants its own article. It has a following of thousands of authors and countless more readers - wikipedia has articles catering to niches of a much smaller size. Secondly, the fan fiction category of Harry Potter fandom is not concurrent with this article. I think it's ridiculous to redirect to an article which is less acurate than the original. In regards to the comment on the inclusion of the subsections on major FF websites, I'd suggest that the websites are a critical aspect of FF, and are therefore noteworthy in this article. The 4 Original sites I had as subsections (Fanfiction.Net, HPFF, FictionAlley, MNFF) represents a significant percentage of this aspect of the Harry Potter fandom. I recognise the potential for this to become an advertising article, so I would agree that the subsections on FF websites should be concise and that we should limit those subsections to those original four websites (As these are, in my hopefully unbiased opinion, the major contributing FF websites). Assuming the consensus is to keep this article, I'd also like to see the {{main}} restored on Harry Potter fandom. Cattlyst 11:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with current version of article

I'm here because I've complete rewritten Harry Potter fandom, and I still believe this article, whatever verifiable points are left within it, can be merged with the fandom article. Please note that I do not have a disliking toward fan fiction, and by this reasoning do I think it should be condensed down. However, for other reasons -- namely exaggeration, and lack of notable sources -- as well as the fact that the fandom article should be all encompassing and to break it down would be counterintuitive. I just want to go through this article and say what I think can be translated to Harry Potter fandom, and how.

Perhaps I was too quick to voice my dissaproval of the redirect. I realise now, given the things you have pointed out, that an editted/concicse/accurate subsection on Harry Potter fandom is perhaps more appropriate. I will go through the points made here and add comments, such that they can be considered for a merge into fandom. My comment about fandom being less accurate has been mostly cleared up since your rewrite, however I would question the mention of FictionAlley (being less notable than HPFF in terms of size), it comes across as an offhanded remark towards the organisation of that archive. Cattlyst 08:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• Harry Potter fan fiction describes fan fiction which is based on J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter universe. From its beginnings in 1999, Harry Potter fan fiction has become one of the largest fan fiction communities in the world. As with most fan fiction, Harry Potter fan fiction exists primarily on the internet, with authors posting works on the dozens of fan fiction websites for others to freely read. – general, general, general introduction to what fan fiction is, and can be found, if necessary, at fan fiction. No citation for 1999.
• Harry Potter Fan Fiction is now the subject of countless websites, many of which are dedicated, and boasts a following of thousands of authors and countless more readers worldwide. – hyperbole that is unnecessary for the lead
• J. K. Rowling has been publicly cited as finding Harry Potter Fan Fiction "Very flattering", but has also denounced fan fictions which put her characters in explicit adult situations.[1] Despite this, the popularity of mature rated fan fictions have continued to grow. – found in the second paragraph of Harry Potter fandom#fan fiction.
• Harry Potter fan fiction saw an upsurge in stories upon the publication of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. – hyperbole, unreferenced, probably rather difficult to reference as well
• The first Harry Potter book was published in the United States in September 1998 and the first verifiable fan fiction arrived in 1999. On September 4, 1999, Harry Potter and the Man of Unknown by an author known as Gypsy Silverleaf became the first Harry Potter fan fiction posted to FanFiction.Net, which was to become the largest archive of Harry Potter fan fiction on the internet. – citations needed for both sentences, notability needs to be established for HP and the Man of Unknown – besides the fact that it's the first story, did it ever go anywhere? the person may have gotten lucky by being the first fan fiction author, but did JKR ever mention it? Did any news source every interview Gypsy Silverleaf? I advise you once again to the specifically-HP inclusion guidelines for online fandom at Talk:Harry Potter fandom#Conversation conclusion.
  • I Agree there are issues with notability of the story here. This particular piece of information was simply retained from a much older version of this article when I first revised it. Cattlyst 08:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
• For a period between 1998 and 2003, it looked like Eastern and Western fan fiction cultures would merge, as each began to borrow concepts, terminology and practices from each other. By 2004, this merging seemed to have ceased. Yaoi and yuri were not being used in Western oriented communities and slash was not being used in Eastern oriented communities. Each community seemed to have retreated into itself. – no introduction to these terms so I'm at a complete loss.
  • Once again this was simply retained from the old article, I just wasn't quite bold enough to delete it. Cattlyst 08:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
• FanFiction.Net, founded in October 1998, is credited with having the earliest piece of Harry Potter fan fiction in its archives. The website, which is often the beginning of new fanfiction communities, now hosts the largest Harry Potter Fan Fiction archive on the internet. – if this is cited, i.e. mentioned in a news article, it's great to include this sentence. As for these:
• However, because the website caters for many different fandoms, stories are poorly organized and hard to find. This is a disadvantage which most of the dedicated Harry Potter Fan Fiction websites don't have. At the time of writing the Harry Potter category on FanFiction.Net contained some 283190 stories. – The first two sentences are not NPOV. The second would probably be better by just saying "Currently, there are more than x number of Harry Potter stories on FanFiction.Net."
• HarryPotterFanFiction.com or simply HPFF, founded in February 2001, is credited with having the largest dedicated Harry Potter fan fiction archive on the internet. The website boasts a powerful search engine, which allows the reader to find a very specific set of stories based on the readers taste and maturity. Also, excepting trusted and experiences authors, all authors must have their chapters checked by staff members of the site before they are displayed publicly to ensure their content is appropriate and suitably rated. Because of this HPFF can be considered safe for children, their parents or indeed anyone who wishes to avoid particular kinds of content. – please reference this, especially the "can be considered safe for children… And what's the difference between "dedicated" archive and FanFiction.Net's stories, which we just said were the most.
  • The second paragraph is irrelevant because it's not the biggest archive (or is it? I'm confused). The third paragraph is too advertise-ish.
    • HPFF is the largest dedicated archive: whilst FF.Net contains more stories, it also contains non HP stories. As for the child safe remark, it is implicitly (though not explicitly) stated in the TOS Cattlyst 08:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
• The Fiction Alley section provides no notability whatsoever and reads like an advertisement and set of statistics. Besides in-the-know fans, has the site ever received any sort of acclaim? The same goes for all the other sites in this section.
• The MuggleNet FF can be briefly mentioned in the main MuggleNet part of the Fan sites section.
• I have more to say but no more time right now. These are just some thoughts that would cut down on material, or cause material to be removed due to improper/lack of citations. Eventually, I think this article can be condensed to fit into Harry Potter fandom. And to User:Cattlyst: if HP fandom is "less accurate," as you say, than this article, let's make it accurate! No need to say that page is bad because it's wrong -- that's why you can edit any article! --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 02:07, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

There's been no further discussion on this now for over two weeks, it appears that Cattlyst agrees with my reasoning, and so I am going to redirect this page to Harry Potter fandom. The only thing I have not merged, remember, is the section on Japanese fan fiction because I could not find any citations for that, and I did not know how notable it was. Please use your own judgement if you'd like to bring that to the new article. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 21:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)