Talk:Harold's Chicken Shack

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I understand there's an ode to Harold's that goes something like:

Charge to Harold's, we all sing
Glory to the chicken king!
Late night snacks on 53rd
Hope our cries for help are heard!
[or "Greasy fries and Wonder Bread
Wish they'd serve Rolaids instead"]

Harold's chicken is the finest
And the sauce will clear your sinus
What's a gizzard, anyway?
Harold knows, but he won't say!

I'm not from Chicago, but I understand this song (or maybe filk) has floated around the University of Chicago for a while. Is anyone familiar with it? Are these all the lyrics? Assuming they are, would posting them here be appropriate? I'm betting they're sung to the tune of "Hark, the Herald Angels Sing," but I don't know.

Joe V. 20:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

JoeV - I helped write this song back in December, 1985. The authors were a group of First Year Undergraduate friends known as the "Fun Bunch" who lived in (all-male at the time) Hitchcock Hall. The song was written for a Hitchcock/Snell dorm-wide competition to create a University of Chicago specific Christmas Carol. We won (over a song based on Jingle Bells called "Oh I'm late", if I remember correctly) and were awarded a 750ml bottle of Bacardi for our efforts which was much appreciated and consumed by us underage drinkers swiftly.

You've got most of the lyrics. Some are outdated. The original Shack this was written about was a block or two further east on 53rd across from Leon's Ribs in a tiny little space with institutional chairs, a pop machine, no tables, and a carrel of bullet proof glass where you shouted your order, passed your money, and eventually received your chicken. They were also only up to Shack #38 at that point.

I'm typing from memory, and I will come back and correct after I consult with the other authors, but it was something like:

Charge to Harold's, we all sing
Glory to the Chicken King
Late night snacks on 53rd,
Hope our cries for help are heard.

Harold's chicken is the finest
And the sauce will clear your sinus
38 locations bring
Glory to the Chicken King.

Greasy fries and Wonder bread
Wish they sold Rolaids instead
What's a gizzard anyway?
Harold knows, but he won't say

Salt and pepper, make it swim
It'll do your stomach in.
(next two lines I don't remember)
("Make it swim" was how we ordered hot sauce on the bird)

chicken liver, thigh and wing
Glory to the Chicken King
(I can't remember this line and will consult with the others)
Glory to the Chicken King (big finish)

Glad to see it's survived! - BigOldGeek

Hey, thanks, BigOldGeek! I've never stayed in Chicago, but I intend to visit a Harold's if I go. I heard about the song from a friend who was at UChicago, and thought I'd ask. I'll wait on your more complete lyrics.... Joe V. 01:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Franchise Info 2 Copyright 3 Inclusion 4 Copyvio statement 5 Tallow

[edit] Franchise Info

Does anyone know if there is published info regarding Harold's franchise pricing? I've been researching but have found nothing. Thanks!

[edit] Copyright

The policy cops are out in force. Copyright infringement on someone's myspace page? Give me a break. TheQuandry 05:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's not a copyright page - then it is blatent advertising - as this article mirrors the page and, IMHO, is not a neutral presentation of the information. Additionally, I am not sure thet HCS meets WP:CORP standards for inclusion. We don't need an article on corner chicken resteraunts unless they are independently verifiable. Which when I was looking for independent verification I found the myspace article - try searching through the google results mostly reviews and an unofficial webpage - no independent or news sources. --Trödel 17:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The WP:CORP discussion is exactly the same as the one we had at Golden Nugget Pancake House. Harold's Chicken Shack is hardly a "corner" chicken restaurant: it's a Chicago institution and a prime historical example of a relatively early African-American business, started by an African-American and geared towards the African-American community. It was determined that GNPH did satisfy WP:CORP and if that did then this CERTAINLY does. Harolds is perhaps more historically important to the Black community in Chicago than Kentucky Fried Chicken is.

I don't think this article is advertising, but I will give you that it's not exactly an outstanding article. We can't prove that the person with the myspace page didn't simply copy the text from the wikipedia article and paste it onto his page. And considering how many people create "official" myspace pages (try searching for your favorite band and see how many "official" pages they have), it seems that myspace is an unreliable method for determining copyright infringement. I think that someone just wanted to make a Harold's page on myspace and copied text from Wikipedia. Anyway, I'm going to try and figure out how to solve this. TheQuandry 06:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I added the article to the temp spot identified in the template with some changes. Mainly, I added some more external links to prove notability. TheQuandry 06:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I've got too much on my plate at the moment to do a major rewrite, but I think this easily passes WP:CORP. I found 30 Lexis-Nexis hits, plus 10 more hits in the Tribune archive -- several of which are about the restaurant, and not just brief mentions. Zagalejo 08:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I am the one who created this article and wrote it in its entirety back in April, although there have been some minor changes since. The Myspace page came after this article and cut and pasted from it, not vice versa, and I can attest to that. The article should be re-instated. Also, Harold's certainly satisfies WP:CORP. It has been covered extensively in the Chicago media, is a large chain, and is a long-standing institution familiar to anyone who has spent much time in Chicago. WildThane 18:27, 19 November 2006 (EST)

There you have it. So please reinstate the article. TheQuandry 02:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I would like to AGF; however, a user who has only edited this article raises red flags for me --Trödel 15:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

You can look at the history of the article. I misspoke when I said I wrote it in April. It was actually February. In any event, the history is clear that this article has been up since then. I can guarantee that the main content is mine, and the information is drawn from a variety of news articles from the Chicago area, as well as conversations with employees at different Harold's Chicken Shacks. Also, I do concede that this is the only article I've written, but that shouldn't detract from whether the article is included. I saw the lack of an article on this subject as being a deficiency of Wikipedia, and created my account for the purpose of contributing to the page. I think Harold's clearly fits the standards for inclusion.WildThane 12:00, 20 November 2006 (EST)

Sorry bout not assuming good faith - I see Wikipedia:Single purpose accounts as a tool occasionally used by others. I still think it is promotional rather than encylopedic - no mention of the recent closure of #2 I believe it was for health code violations, etc. --Trödel 22:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the article is promotional. It merely describes Harold's in neither favorable nor unfavorable terms. Virtually every restaurant chain in the world has franchises caught with health violations from time to time, and that doesn't mean that should be mentioned in an encyclopedia entry about them. Moreover, if you feel that certain negatives about Harold's merit inclusion, that would be a case for adding that information to the article and letting the community edit it, rather than eliminating the entire article. WildThane 23:24, 21 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] Inclusion

From my brief read of the sources people have provided - see also [ this article(PDF)]. There definately is a good claim for inclusion as having historical importance. We just need to find a few more independent references and I think things will be good :) Thanks for the efforts to improve this article - I just stumbled upon it --Trödel 15:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Chicago Tribune profile of Hyde Park - lists HCS as one of Chicago Magazines "Best of Chicago" choices. --Trödel 16:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio statement

After some more research into how Wikipedia works, I believe, ultimately, that the person on Myspace copied the text here and used it on his/her page per Wikipedia's "free encyclopedia" concept. Note discussion above where a unser states that edits he made to the article later appeared on the Myspace page. Furthermore, I don't think that they Myspace page is an official one, just another fan page masquerading as official (you'd think a corporate page would look a lot nicer). TheQuandry 05:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tallow

I believe Chicago recently outlawed frying food in beef tallow (or lard of any kind). Is Harold's in violation of this law, or is the info in the article out of date? Speciate 01:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I think this was actually hydrogenated oils, not tallow/lard. Yay for us! TheQuandry 03:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)