User talk:Handicapper

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[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 12 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Edward D. Brown, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Konst.able 06:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edward D. Brown

Nice work on Edward D. Brown - thank you for adding it to Wikipedia. cbustapeck 13:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did You Know?

Updated DYK query On 4 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Forward Pass (horse), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 18:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On November 10, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Noor (horse), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Ben Ali Stakes

Right on the official Keeneland racetrack site that gives the history of the races run there, it says: "The Ben Ali Stakes, named for noted Thoroughbred breeder and financier James Ben Ali Haggin (1821-1914), had its inaugural running at the Kentucky Association track in Lexington in 1917."

I shall cite this now.

As for Haggin breeding Firenzi, this is stated in Robertson's "History of Thoroughbred Racing History in America," on page 143. I quote: "The greatest runner bred by Haggin was a mare, Firenzi, winner of the..." and so forth and so on. But I see that in her pedigree, it is stated she was bred by Daniel Swigert and owned by Haggin. Hmmmm, where to go from here? I need another source.

As for the "misleading" links, I take your point. This was done only a few times, and won't be done (by me) again. Thank you, ...Ki Longfellow 21:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know

Updated DYK query On 20 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Sarazen, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 10:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Blue Peter etc.

You seem to be interested in the Rosebery studs - any chance of a page on them? Giano 13:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Well I'm not very knowledgable on blood stock in depth, but if ever you do the Rosebery Studs I may have a few photographs and a little bit of knowledge, let me know when you have time. Regards Giano 15:06, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, the address of the Rosebery studs is confusing, and one of those things that only happen in Britain. Mentmore the place is in Buckinghamshire. Leighton Buzzard the nearest town is in Befordshire. The people of Mentmore, Crafton and Ledburn pay their local taxes to Buckinghamshire but do their local shopping and errands in Leighton Buzzard. The Mentmore Towers is not a castle but a Victorian mansion barely a 150 rears old, and Rosebery was an Earl not a Duke, an (Earl is two down on a Duke). Incidentally the 5th Earl of Rosebery who was the first of the Earl's to win the Derby barely knew how to ride a horse, his son was the big owner who rode to hounds etc. The 5th Earl acquired Crafton through marriage, and built Mentmore Stud himself, both are within half a kilometre of each other and the mansion. If you want to know more about them read this page here [1], I may even finish it one day. Both stud farms are today defunct, but the buildings in various forms remain, but there is a lot of British bloodstock history there. Giano 21:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh and just to add to the confusion half the google references (especially the 19th century ones) to Mentmore Stud are wrong they should read Crafton Stud, Mentmore was not built untill anout 1912, the paddocks may have been there, but they were officially part of Crafton Stud at that time, I think after Mentmore was built it became the more famous (hence the confusion) because it was the "public stud" where anyone could send a mare (for a fee) to be mounted by the Rosebery stallions ("Crooner" and The "Duke of Ragusa" was the last in 1974?) while Crafton became private housing just the Roseberys own mares and foals. Giano 21:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Forget the name "Reddings" it is the new name (as in last two years) of an old farm house that once formed part of Crafton Stud, it is now all sold and divided up - hence more confusion...If you immagine a great house in a park - half a kilometer to the west in Crafton, half a kilometer to the east is Mentmore each village had a stud farm both owned by the same man. Perhaps it would be easier if I start a page with the geography and some odd fact, what do you suggest it should be called, I don't think there is enough fo an article on each stud - probably Mentmore stud as that is the most famous with a section on Crafton? Giano 22:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I've just written this quick stub Mentmore and Crafton Studs with redirects from both individual studs. If you want to edit it, please do, I shall add some more tomorrow, The horses you just mentioned are not buried at Mentmore Stud, but in the grounds of Mentmore Towers, if you check out Dalmeny House then follow the links to it's RL website you will see a statue of King Tom that until the 1970s stood on top of his grave at Mentmore. If you look at Mentmore Towers the lead image was taken by someone standing almost on the graves of King Tom, Blue Peter and Ocean Swell, other great horses were buried in the woods behind the house, lesser horses went to the hunt kennels! Giano 23:06, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
The image I've just uploaded on the page is the statue of King Tom when it was in situ on the grave in the 1970s - other Derby winners were buried just to the right of it. Giano 23:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Hawbridge Stables is again a new name, for a cottage and a few stables once part of Crafton Stud, now sold off Today it is a private house with a few stables attached, probably housing the kid's donkey. Crafton is a very small village (a hamlet really) when the Rosebery's owned it all the houses there had names like 1, 2, 3, 14 Crafton etc. Now they are owned by upwardly mobile individuals who prefer to call their houses by quaint names. In Lord Rosebery's time there was just Crafton Stud at Crafton, and Mentmore Stud at Mentmore no other names were used. Before Mentmore Stud was built in 1914 (I looked the date up) part of the site was called "Manor Farm", and part was the former kennels of the Stag hounds. When there is room on the page (page is longer) I will upload somemore pictures.

Incidentally the document giving you all your information is a blue print for establishing a conservation area at Crafton drawn uo by the local authority, ironically that same authority are now attempting to drive a major new road with in meters of the place! Giano 05:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know

Updated DYK query On 24 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Graustark (horse), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 17:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salvator (horse)

Hi, before I tidy up that move, let me get it clarified: Do you want the page at Salvator or at Salvator (horse)? Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, for the moment I've put it back to Salvator (horse), but feel free to move it wherever you like - just make sure you don't do it by copy-and-paste. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know?

Updated DYK query On 2 December 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Winning Colors (horse), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 17:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On December 14, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bertrando, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for the great horseracing articles Handicapper. This article kindly nominated by User:GeeJo - feel free to self-nominate in future. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


The Running Man Barnstar
This barnstar awarded to Handicapper for his outstanding article contributions in equine racing sports Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French accents

When I created the articles for French Group 2 races with an accent in the title, I failed to also create re-direct pages for them without the accents. And so when such a race title is written without the accent it hasn't linked, as you've discovered. Now that you have re-named all of them without accents, a redirect would automatically be created should the accents be restored, and there would be no link problems. Please can you give me permission to put the accents back - articles such as Café and Château include them, and to my eyes they don't appear correct without them. Thanks -- Zafonic 21:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Unless you have any objections, I shall be changing the titles of the following articles on 29th December:

Please note that both versions of each title will continue to link successfully. -- Zafonic 21:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


OK, I won't change them until it has been discussed. -- Zafonic 23:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK!

Updated DYK query On December 27, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article International Special, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thank you for your contributions!! Nishkid64 23:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Tedious

I did not make the remarks you credit to me in the Woody Stephens Breeders Cup Stakes. Secretariat is not a horse I ever comment about since he's so well covered by others. Somehow, I am getting the distinct impression you look for my contributions here in order to make your "mark" on them. You and you alone have made wikipedia unpleasant for me. In return, and just to see who is so critical of me, I used to look over your articles which are often ill-spelled, fragmented, uninformative, and without interest, and yet I seldom "corrected" them. What for? Correcting you and adding important information to what are essentially stubs would take me all day. In fact, I now avoid anything that has your dry tedious hand in it. Your idea of tone, what is relevant, and any other thing you wish to impose on me or anyone else no longer holds the slightest interest for me. From the comments of others I did intend to dampen my writing, make it more wiki-like, but people like you take the fun, if not the heart, out of it. I'm taking a long break from all this. Meanwhile, if I were you, I'd learn to write a lot better, and do a lot more research, if I wanted to continue "informing" others about what you seem to know so little about...Ki Longfellow


Note: the above personal attack is a response to the following which I posted to User talk:Ki Longfellow:

  • Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a sports journal, a newspaper racing column, or an opinion forum. As such, please do not change articles to insert negative information that is completely irrelevant to the article as you did with this edit [2] at Woody Stephens Breeders' Cup Stakes. Thanx for your cooperation. Handicapper 12:23, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Auteuil Hippodrome

I have announced your article at Wikipedia:WikiProject France/New article announcements. If you write more about France-related topics, please announce your articles. Also you might like to consider joining the recently activated WikiProject France. Thank you, and happy editing, STTW (talk) 16:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pete Bostwick

Your updates to this great sportsman are most appreciated. I took an initial stab and trying add to his entry this morning but didn't have enough materials accessable. Clearly you have done him a great deal of justice. I've contributed somewhat to his family's records on The Bostwick/Bostock family tree and will likely look at add to some of his other relatives, e.g. his late sister Dorothy Cambell --Kellsboro Jack 21:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

I just did an article on Gladiateur but did not know and could not get a traslation of the book reference: L'épopée de Gladiateur. Can you tell me the English meaning of L'épopée? Thanx. Handicapper 21:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, "L'épopée" means an epic story, something epic. Here, the translation could be "The epic story of Gladaitor". Have a nice day Historicair 17:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay, but I'm not connected everyday on the english Wiki, so I discover your question today. Well, I live actually in the alps in Haute-Savoie, nearby Annemasse, but I'm come from Hérault, nearby the mediterranean sea. Have a nice day. Historicair 10:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ruth Atkinson Ford

Good, much-needed info on this pioneering woman comics pro. I need to ask, simply since it contradicts published sources such as The Comics Journal, where the information came from. Is there a published or online citation? Thanks for any help. --Tenebrae 02:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow — thanks for the great info! Dataq on Ruth Ford, like those of other early comics pros, let alone women professionals who left the field long ago, is hard to come by. I (and by extension I('m sure others editors in the Comics Project) appreciate the extra resources! Also, I didn't know about the potential lag time in Social Security death dates, so I'll remember to keep that in mind. Thanks again!--Tenebrae 23:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Joseph E. Widener, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On January 18, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Joseph E. Widener, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 02:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you !

Template:Horseracing personalities infobox

  • I wasn't able to decide the template name. I think that this template is a good name.

The Tetrarch

Thank you !--Galopin 17:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 23 January 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Corrida, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page. 
--Yomanganitalk 18:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] United Kingdom Classic Races

I have to say that I have never heard the Classics described as the United Kingdom Classics - they would normally be referred to as the English Classics (all five being run in England) or possibly the British Classics. Would you consider moving the article back to one of those titles? Bcp67 22:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts - the whole terminology thing re English/British/UK is a bit of a minefield! If I ever get round to doing articles about Irish National Hunt races there'll be further problems, as all Irish NH races (including those in Northern Ireland) are under the control of the Irish Horseracing Board, not the BHB. Let's leave the UK Classic Races alone, the links all point there and we all know which races they are anyway. Bcp67 18:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I also prefer "British" to "United Kingdom" and I've been considering some BIG changes regarding category titles which would remove some of the "United Kingdom" references. I want to change Category:Racehorses bred in the United Kingdom and its equivalents (titles I'm responsible for - sorry) to "British bred racehorses", "American bred racehorses" etc - shorter and more alphabetically friendly (they don't all begin with "R"!). Following this, I don't think it would take too much effort to systematically replace "United Kingdom" with "Great Britain" or "British" wherever it occurs in horseracing articles (and also replace "Republic of Ireland" with "Ireland"). -- Zafonic 19:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll go along with Zafonic's idea too - I like the designation "British" for anything to do with racing in the island of Great Britain and "Irish" for anything that goes on across the Irish Sea.

I prefer the "British-bred", "American-bred", "Irish-bred" idea as well. I think you're absolutely right about Republic of Ireland / Ireland too. In terms of breeding a horse bred in the south of Ireland pre-1922 is bred in the "United Kingdom", and depending on the date thereafter in anyone of three various entities. Call it simply "Irish-bred" and it does away with all that. Bcp67 22:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Nijinsky II

Hi, I see that you have done great work to that page but deleted my bit about Piggott's balls-up in the 1970 Arc, without any discussion. I have reverted it, as it's fact. Many still do attribute the horse's defeat to Piggott (and I was careful to say "an unusually bad ride from Piggott).

Also, I've seen various Timeform ratings for Nijinsky, either 138 or 140. Can you clarify which is correct, as TF is a pay site. All the best, bigpad 22:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the message re the 138 rating. Can you do a quick update to the page bigpad 17:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:PippaFunnellDVDCover.jpg)

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[edit] An article which you started, or significantly expanded, John McShain, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On January 31, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John McShain, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.


Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 22:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tantieme

I hope you are already an experienced wikipedian and know about disambiguation, and will no longer do what you did in Tantième article. `'mikka 20:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

There are many pages where this redirect was introduced by you today, could you also revert them. STTW (talk) 23:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
It was refering to your edits of changing Tantième to Tantieme, without giving any reason. Would be nice if you could mention that in the edit summary, or perhaps on talk page of the concerned article as per Wikipedia:Consensus. STTW (talk) 00:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gary Moore

I placed a comment (mistakenly!) on Zafonic's talk page about confusion regarding Gary Moore, Gold River's jockey, and Gary Moore the English trainer - from your Gold River article, which you might want to have a quick look at. Hope you don't mind. Bcp67 20:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message and research. Bcp67 15:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abernant

Just had a look through your article on Abernant - it's excellent. I usually have a look at your stuff and amend links etc. Keep up the great work! Bcp67 20:22, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transatlantic classic winning-owners

In your article about Rokeby Stables you say that it the only thoroughbred owners to own Classic winners on both sides of the Atlantic. Not sure about that - if you have a look at the article about Michael Tabor it names four owners (including Paul Mellon) who have done it. I'll leave it to you to edit if you think it needs it. Bcp67 21:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Winners tables

I've noticed that lately you've been abbreviating some of the longer names in the winners tables, e.g. "Fulke J. Houghton", "P. Chapple-Hyam" etc. It's always difficult to judge how much can be squeezed in to these tables - what looks good on one person's screen might look a mess on another's.

To try and overcome this problem I've made a copy of the "King George VI & Queen Elizabeth" table using a smaller font size. Please have a look on User:Zafonic/winners tables, and see what you think. Thanks -- Zafonic 20:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bar Colour

Good idea - I'll change the colour for races currently run on dirt. -- Zafonic 19:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Reid (jockey)

Thanks for your message about John Reid - but I only amended the last few lines of the article! Bcp67 18:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bruce Hobbs

Can I ask for a bit of help? The article about Bruce Hobbs describes him as an American jockey & trainer. He was born on Long Island while his father was working there but returned to England at age 2 and was British. How would you amend the article? Would he be an American-born British jockey & trainer, or would you just call him a British jockey & trainer but note him as being born in the the USA? What would your thoughts be? Thanks Bcp67 20:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Battleship's trainer was Reg Hobbs, who was Bruce Hobbs's father. Bcp67 18:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] King Tom

Nice little page :-) Giano 14:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jeffrey Fell

Hi Handicapper, I will go to Hamilton City Hall today and pickup Jeffrey Fell's birthdate for you.  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat 

[edit] Introductions and contribution

Just made my presence known in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Thoroughbred racing and posted the link to this: Template:Horseraces infobox. Seeing your one of the prolific contributors in the project, thought you'd want to be the first to tell me if I did an okay job and tell me what I did wrong and hopefully help me to improve the template and make my "hit-n-run" edits to horse racing articles an enjoyment on Wikipedia. --293.xx.xxx.xx 04:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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