Talk:Hamersley, Western Australia

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[edit] Article Grading

  • Importance = Low its only a burb of Perth without any major historical events,
  • Class= B covers the subject maybe some more expansion from single paragraph section to 2-3 paragraph sections, well referenced basically ready for a nomination at WP:GAC Gnangarra 11:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article

I've passed this article as a Good Article. Although it has one or two minor problems, overall, it's certainly well-referenced, more or less neutral now that I made two minor edits, looks broad enough to me, the images are fine and its more or less well-written. Some things to fix is that in the intro, surely there's a more precise way of saying "north-north-west", (It just doesn't seem normal to me :/ ) I can't tell if "The name applied to the entire region extending to the coast." is referenced or not, the Town Planning Scheme law looks ambiguously referenced too, and the mortgage belt thing at the bottom might use a sentence of explanation; since its already talking politics, it might be easier to say what that term means in a sentence rather than a reader having to load up another article. Homestarmy 13:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Politics

Would a graph be more informative. Fred 18:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably - I am yet to decide what to do with the politics, other than that what's there now must change. Orderinchaos78 02:55, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

Moved here from main article temporarily (This is a self-confessed dumping ground for images. Once the article is reasonably complete, and even before then, any opinions on which images should go in and where would be most appreciated Orderinchaos78 12:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Natural history - common or scientific names

No sure here but in the Natural History section the combination of latin and common names does not seem to flow well. I think that Tuart tree rather than Eucalyptus gomphocephala (Tuart) reads better but don't know the consensus in the style manual on this. Peripitus (Talk) 11:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's any consensus as this is an unusual situation of a geographic article containing some specialist information. In that context I think it's leaning towards general names but correctly linked to the species. I'm wary of changing it in case I break it though :) Orderinchaos78 12:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Support better known names. 'Tuart' over 'tuart trees' to imply type of country. P.S. is it possible to identify "... first suburb in the region to be guided by the ... Fred 13:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
My thought would be to use either Tuart tree (my preference) or Eucalyptus gomphocephala rather than the duel Eucalyptus gomphocephala (Tuart) which should really be Eucalyptus gomphocephala (Tuart), anyhow I'd wait for Hesp to return and get his opinion. Gnangarra 14:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
That's why I'm not doing anything yet with it - there is plenty of time and I still have two big sections to write. Orderinchaos78 14:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Side thoughts, I would have expected the area to have a large Banksia prionotes population. The geography section with sub section on natural history is a difficult read, suggest that the soils structure is taken out of the Natural history section, maybe change the title of that subsection to a flora/fauna section. Gnangarra 14:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
My biological knowledge is relatively poor, but the linked Banksia species appear to be correct from my observations and photos, as is the bottlebrush and sheoak. The major species sadly at the bottom level of many of the bushland areas appears to be those imported wild oats one sees in many places around Perth (I believe of South African origin). (Any scope for invasive species?) Orderinchaos78 14:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
<--
This article is shaping up nicely! Thanks for waiting around for my input guys. I stand by "Eucalyptus gomphocephala (Tuart)" as the usual method used by people with an interest in this level of detail of natural history, and as the method that would best stand up to a paper edition - we must always remember that this encyclopaedia need not only be delivered over the Web. I have no objection to adoption of the reverse convention: "Tuart (Eucalyptus gomphocephala)". I am rather less enthusiastic about removing either scientific or common name, but will leave the decision to OIC.
Aside from its age, the Atlas of Natural Resources, Darling System is about the best reference imaginable for this kind of thing; if it doesn't mention B. prionotes, I would be pretty confident in declaring B. prionotes unmentionable. Having said that, Gnangarra is right on the money re: B. prionotes's distribution and habit: The Banksia Atlas shows B. prionotes occurring in the rough area of Hamersley, and says that "B. prionotes shows a strong preference for deep sandy soils, often yellow in colour."
Hesperian 12:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Now got a ref for the dieback thing (this is notes rather than a proposed inclusion, as I have no idea how or where to get it in :))
Aintree-Eglinton Bushland (located between the recreation centre and Lampard) is a Green Plan Site under the City of Stirling's Green Plan 2 (City of Stirling (2004). Green Plan 2: a strategy for conservation of urban bushlands.  Explanation of the role of Green Plan 2 at City of Stirling (2004). Strategic Plans. Retrieved on 2007-01-31.) There are 58 Green Plan Sites in the City of Stirling. Aintree-Eglinton is also a registered dieback site under the plan. Orderinchaos78 01:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Thought of a way to get it in under Geography. Just have to get gazettals of the various reserves (which include area to square metres as well as a number I can follow right through to the present). May also see if I can actually see a copy of the Green Plan. Orderinchaos78 00:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Should I put in about the dieback? It's on a sign at the reserve and has been confirmed by the Parks and Gardens people at the City of Stirling but isn't actually printed in the Green Plan 2. Besides, I can't figure out a way to put it in that doesn't sound awkward. Also, do I need to reference the acreage of the two reserves? Can be done easily (they're from Govt Gazette entries and verified against a cancelled public plan map) but I don't know if it breaks up readability Orderinchaos78 11:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Either a no but.. or yes if.... The reason for a mention of dieback would be dependant on whether the CoS, DCE or some other group are doing/done anything specificily notiable to control or erradicate it. Outside of that I wouldnt include within the article. Again with the reserves unless there is someting of note that would warrant more information what you got is fine. Gnangarra 11:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks :) The CoS are, but it's a question of proving it - the guy told me on the phone a list of things they are doing, including injecting things into the trees and so on, but I can't find a written source anywhere. As for the reserves, it would just be two more refs. I think I'll take that bit as is to FAC and if they say it needs references I can always put them in then (it's just two more Govt Gazette entries) Orderinchaos78 13:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Wonder if its the same thing they have been trialling at Kings Park there they are marking the trees they injected. Suspect if you talk to the parks/gardens guys they will have a source it would be worth mentioning if these parks are unique to CoS, otherwise if its CoS policy for all reserves then it would worth a mention on the CoS article and the web page P&G section will have more info. Gnangarra 13:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead

[edit] 1st para

From; Hamersley is a residential suburb of Perth, capital city of Western Australia. It lies 14 kilometres NNW of Perth's central business district (CBD) and 6 kilometres inland from the Indian Ocean at Watermans Bay. The suburb is adjacent to the intersection of two major arterial roads, Mitchell Freeway to the west and Reid Highway to the south, and falls within the Hamersley Ward of the City of Stirling local government area.

To; Hamersley is a residential suburb 14 kilometres(8 mi) NNW of Perth Western Australia's central business district (CBD) and 6 kilometres(3 mi) from the Indian Ocean at Watermans Bay. The suburb is adjacent to the intersection of two major arterial roads, Mitchell Freeway to the west and Reid Highway to the south, and is within the City of Stirling local government area.

removed redundant words

  • Perth, capital city of Western Australia - duplicated info in para
  • inland - a burb cant be out at sea can it
  • it lies

Unnecessary words

  • Hamersley Ward of - mentioning ward isnt necessary for opening para of lead CoS is enough summary info
  • falls - action word for a static location, poor prose

added

This is the what and why for my edits to the first para of the lead. Gnangarra 02:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd para

from Hamersley was built in the late 1960s and early 1970s as part of a major effort by the Government of Western Australia to force down the price of land elsewhere by opening up and developing land for housing as quickly as possible.[3] This was a response to upward pressures on land prices across the metropolitan area, including demand created by the growth of the Kwinana industrial district south of Perth and the establishment of the iron ore industry in northern Western Australia. By 1968 land speculation had also become a significant factor, with individuals and companies profiting by buying and selling released but undeveloped land.[4]

to Built during the late 1960s and early 1970's as part of a major effort by the Government of Western Australia in response to upward pressures on land prices across the metropolitan area.

this sentence would then be added to 1st para. Gnangarra 02:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

note - I havent done this edit as I need to see where the two reference can be used first Gnangarra 03:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Refs are actually a repeat of elsewhere. They appear singly in the history section, but are bunched together up there because the only alternative was three numbers in a row. I've transferred the McCarrey one to its other ref in the article. Orderinchaos78 10:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other edits

Dunno about you but I find it good to print these things out and go through them on paper, I just don't seem to see the same things on the screen! This article is very good but I think what has happened is it's been edited a lot of times and there's some consistency issues. I have edited the lead to be a bit tighter, and also I looked up the policy on leads and they have to be a summary of the article and say why the suburb is notable, so I tried to do that as well (the only bit was the radio tower before really) Hope nobody minds if I go through the whole thing like this... DanielT5 09:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

More edits - The end of the history section just kind of ends. I looked up on my new student access at uni and found a heap of stuff about Hamersley, although I don't know where to put it or how to lead it in. There's been a few domestic crimes in the area. Sunday 16 July 2000 a 38-year-old woman Deborah Boyd was "bludgeoned to death in her Hamersley home" allegedly by her ex-boyfriend (both the west australian and the sunday times reported on it twice each) while in February 1998 there was a shooting involving drugs on Beach Road, on Saturday 22 May 2004 a man was "fighting for his life" after being stabbed in the back, and just last week there was a six-hour armed siege in the suburb (I saw this on Tuesday's paper on the bus here and thought "I should see if Orderinchaos78 knows about that" :)... Anyway I have put them here so people can decide if they go in, I can put the sources up if anyone needs them. DanielT5 10:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Daniel :) Your improvements to the wording look good IMO... re crime, I'm not sure what the above would add to the article, apart from the Deborah Boyd situation which I do remember being on Channel 7 (didn't realise she was Hamersley! but having looked up Factiva can see the articles you probably did). The above suggests a high crime suburb whereas the general level of crime is much higher in other areas - a POV real estate report I found claims that "crime and petty theft are almost unknown within its boundaries" and a check of Stirling Times crime sections appears to confirm this - and most of the above are the sad products of domestic disputes rather than an evidence of crime in the suburb. Orderinchaos78 04:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I wonder if?

I wonder if the information on the student numbers at Glendale Primary School are available as it would be an interesting comparison between over crowding peak c.1974 and 2005. Gnangarra 04:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting point. Will see if I can get access to the Hamersley Gazette again - it had *some* information about it, although of course it's a secondary source. I might contact the good people at Dep of Ed and see if they have any records of these sorts of things publicly available somewhere. Orderinchaos78 10:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images Needed

  • Aintree-Eglinton Reserve
  • Sattelite map like Image:Cullacabardee location.jpg this one
  • Community centre?
  • A primary school
  • A bus along Eglinton Crescent <-- might try for this tomorrow or Monday Orderinchaos78 16:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Rannoch Tay Earn Reserve, preferably with one or more of a pathway, a grassed area and banksia forest
  • View from Rannoch Circle
  • The radio tower
  • A native bushland area

is this excessive? DanielT5 11:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

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