User talk:Hal Raglan

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Welcome!

Hello, Hal Raglan, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  -- Longhair | Talk 03:37, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Big Country

Hi. Just a quick note to say I've seen your update regarding the Peace in our Time album and think that it is reasonable. The reason I saw fit to alter it was because I felt the description of 'Stadium Rock' was not accurate and represented an opinion, possibly, of someone who'd only heard the track King of Emotion rather than the whole album. Your present update removes most opinion and concentrates more on facts, so it's fine by me.

All the best.

[edit] Al Franken

Has this been confirmed? The last I heard Franken was merely "seriously considering", but the article makes it seem like a given. Could someone provide a link to a source?Hal Raglan 00:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Glad to oblige. See this USA Today article. EdwinHJ | Talk 05:06, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to that 2004 article. But it clearly says that Franken is only 50/50 about running, and that he won't make a firm decision until "next year" (2005). I haven't read or seen anything recently that confirms he has made up his mind. I really don't think he should be referenced as a candidate in the 1st paragraph of the article until he has indicated he definitely will run. What do you think?Hal Raglan 07:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
According to an editorial in the Dec 6, 2005 Madison Capitol Times [1], Al Franken is still only considering making a run. Thats the most recent article I could find via Google. I found nothing stating that he was going to definitely run. Based on this, I think the sentence in the first paragraph proclaiming him a candidate should be removed. If anyone wants to reinstate the sentence, please provide a source of information. ThanksHal Raglan 00:45, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
  • In know an Al Frankin junkie like yourself might not get this upfront, but wikipedia has an NPOV policy, so you might want to look into that before you go around editing articles--IworkforNASA 03:15, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Your poorly written, bizarre comment makes no sense, since all of my edits in the Al Franken article conform to wikipedia's NPOV policy. What are you talking about?Hal Raglan 03:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Media bias in the United States

(Addressed to IworkforNASA, see section above):

Because you put your rant under the Al Franken subheading of my talk page, I understandably had no clue what you were squealing about. Now that I've figured out that you were actually referring to the Media bias in the United States article, I still have no idea how you think I was violating wikipedia's NPOV policy. In case you're still confused by my edit, here's what I added to the discussion page of the Media bias article:

IworkforNASA jumped on my talk page and accused me of violating wikipedia's NPOV policy simply because I want a verifiable citation, whether to the FAIR website or anywhere else, that shows that FAIR is a "liberal organization." My whole point is if you're going to provide a link, make sure it goes somewhere that verifies what you've written. The page that was linked did NOT say anything of the kind. For the record, I believe that FAIR is inarguably liberal in their viewpoint, although they describe themselves somewhere on their website as "progressive" (and, yes, I agree that's the same thing). Hal Raglan 03:39, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I've just tried a compromise, with my new edit noting that FAIR is a "self described 'progressive' media watch group", followed by an actual link to a page on the FAIR website that shows they really do describe themselves in this matter. Is this satisfactory?Hal Raglan 03:52, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Argento/Bava

hi, nice work on the argento/bava films! Tenebrae (film) article is great. any plans on doing Deep Red, Lisa and the Devil or Bay of Blood at some point? Zzzzz 19:11, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! If I find the time, I will try my best to write articles regarding those titles you mentioned. I'm amazed nobody has done them yet. Eventually, I also hope to greatly expand the Mario Bava main article...its incredibly skimpy as is.Hal Raglan 20:54, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

regarding tenebrae fair use images, have a look here: Wikipedia:Image_description_page#Fair_use_rationale - basically some text needs to be put on the image pages as described there. Zzzzz 23:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

hi, yes i saw its now featured, congrats. i also requested it to go on the Main_Page on 3 may here, lets see if it gets picked up. if you want to collaborate on any other articles, italian-horror related or not, let me know! (p.s. could you do me favour - i have another article on FAC: Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Halloween_(film), is it possible you could vote "support" or "object" with your comments at some stage? cheers. Zzzzz 20:49, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Al Gore controversies

Thanks for your edits to Al Gore controversies. They have been needed. --Allen 20:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alec Baldwin

You don't think what he has said constitutes "attacks" c'mon now..read the sources, these are not crtiscisms at all--Bairdso66 05:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I know you don't agree with me, but his comments are criticisms, not attacks. I think your most recent edit (changing "attacks" to "strongly criticized") is far more acceptable than the way you originally had it worded. Thanks. Hal Raglan 05:20, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


I appreciate you response, but I am confused as to what constitutes an "attack" if these don't -"lying theiving oil whore" -"murderer of the U.S. Constitution" -"trust fund puppet" -"constitution hating sociopath" -"hate filled maniac" i would say "so and so has not done a good job" would be a critiscism Thanks...--Bairdso66 03:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, but if you read other wikipedia articles devoted to famous individuals who repeatedly make similarly heated comments, such as Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh (to choose only two), you'll note that the editors of the articles go out of their way to describe their statements as "opinions", "commentary", "remarks", "criticisms", etc. This is an attempt to conform to wikipedia's NPOV policy. I think we should attempt to do so in the Baldwin article, also. Even if you personally believe his admittedly emotion-filled, hyperbolic responses are simply "attacks", to note that in a wikipedia article would be editorializing, i.e., inserting your POV into the text. We should simply leave the controversial quotes in the article and allow the reader to determine if Baldwin's comments are legitimate criticisms or simply "attacks".Hal Raglan 03:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Got it, thanks for the response--Bairdso66 17:26, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Halloween

Thanks for your comments on the article Halloween (film) at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Halloween (film). I think I have addressed all of your concerns now. Dmoon1 05:23, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Since you have gone through this process before, how do you know when an article has been promoted to Featured Article status? I can't find any suggestion as to how long it stays or howy many "votes" it must receive. So far, the Halloween (film) article has been on the nominations list since April 23 and the comments are supportive. There has not been any additional change to the nomination since April 25. Thanks. Dmoon1 17:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Halloween (film) was promoted to featured article status today. Thanks again for your comments and support. Dmoon1 19:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olbermann

Why did you remove the passage of Olbermann reminding viewers of "mission accomplished" the source was included?? I also feel that your Olbermann additions may have a slight bias toward him --Bairdso66 19:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

While I appreciate your attempts to conform to the NPOVpolicies of Wikipedia, it does seem that you tend to frame your contributions to make "Liberals" always look like the innocent party. For instance, the Baldwin/Olbermann edits seem to have a little bent.You also seem to reference Limbaugh and Coulter to prove points about their bias, but are eager to defend Olbermann and Baldwin about their similar bias.Are you practicing what you preach?? --Bairdso66 17:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I edit/add/delete/rephrase potential POV problem material when I see it. I don't go looking for it, but when it jumps out at me I try to correct it if I can. I think you're right that most of the time I do make attempts to reduce hostile editorial comments from articles on liberals/moderates. In the Baldwin article, the section on the radio show incident was originally ridiculously biased against the actor; it didn't even relate at all to the available transcript. I added direct quotes and made it as neutral as possible while still maintaining factual and sourced details. The overall article as it stands clearly shows that Baldwin has liberal views and is deeply critical of the Bush Administration. I don't think the article makes him look "innocent" or "guilty" of anything. As far as Olbermann is concerned, I've never seen his show but I have read his blog from time to time, and from what I did read I never picked up on any "liberal agenda" he was pushing. The section in his wikipedia article that claims he has been accused of having a liberal bias -- which could very well be true -- simply needs to exhibit actual cited cases of those accusations. If he really is commonly thought of as being a liberal, then examples should be all over the internet. As far as practicing what I preach, if you truly care, I have made repeated attempts to help reduce overly negative unsourced commentary, or simply spurious information, from the Bill O'Reilly article. POV nonsense in any article has no place in wikipedia and should be removed, or modified and replaced if possible with actual facts/sourced details. Hal Raglan 18:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Appreciate the response..--Bairdso66 19:53, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I inserted a link to "Olbermann Watch" for readers to see for themselves how the website is set up.--Bairdso66 22:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horror WikiProject

From your edits, it seems that you might be interested in a Horror WikiProject (temporary page: User:Myleslong/WikiProject Horror) that Dmoon1 and I are thinking of starting. If you're interested, please visit that temporary page and/or leave comments on my or Dmoon1's talk page. Thanks. --Myles Long 19:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:PenguinHorror.jpg

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[edit] Bill O'Reilly controversies

Hi Hal. I was just wondering why you removed the line in the Glick section about Glick continuously interupting O'Reilly--I saw the interview, and believe me it happened. Not having that line makes it look as though O'Reilly cut his mic because of disagreement in opinion, which is misleading. Stanley011 18:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Hello! In response to your question about why I removed the line about "Glick continuously interupting O'Reilly": Frankly, from the available transcripts, it seems like the conversation quickly broke down to the point where both participants simply wouldn't let each other talk. To me, it definitely seems like O'Reilly did most of the interrupting, but thats my admittedly POV interpretation. I think its best to conform to the way the O'Reilly/Franken dispute section has been recently edited...don't pass blame on either participant, simply present the basic facts and let the reader follow the provided links for more info/details. Not sure if you'll agree with me but thats why I made the change.Hal Raglan 19:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CNN

I didn´t think that I needed to provide a reference for something when one only has to watch and listen. You are right though, because it was an article in The Sunday Times, which I will try to find. andreasegde 10:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olbermann

Hi Hal, I'm not sure if we need to add the fact that this is Olbermann's "alleged bias" because, after all that is the title of the section. I'm not sure that is a POV problem. Thanks--Bairdso66 16:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

  • It might seem redundant to you (although the title of the section is "Accusations of Bias", not "Alleged Bias") but I think it is important to specify that the bias is strictly alleged, especially when the article mentions that there is a website that exists to "document examples of Olbermann's bias." That makes it seem like there really is bias to document. By the way, one of the things that concerns me about this section, as its currently written, is that it is giving way too much credence and space to a conservative blogger who clearly is obsessed with Olbermann. One mention of this guy would be okay, but two? Its already noted that he has an anti-Olbermann website so who cares if he also (predictably) is salivating with hatred regarding the new book? Isn't there someone else a little more notable who can be quoted regarding Olbermann's liberal bias? If its only this blogger and an editorial in The Cornell Review making such allegations, I fail to see a controversy. I'm not saying the Cornell Review isn't notable, but there must be some damning quotes from other sources available all over the internet if, in fact, Olbermann is widely considered to be a "controversial" pundit relentlessly pushing a liberal agenda.--Hal Raglan 17:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Hal, I agree for the most part. I guess I would just encourage yourself and others to watch Countdown and report any objectivity you may see. Naturally you wouldn't find any Democrat who would cry wolf at Olbermann's "alleged" bias no more than you find republicans bashing Rush etc..I myself don't even think he is subtle in his "left wing" ways. Thanks again--Bairdso66 22:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Media bias in the United States

Hello! Regarding your "tweaking" of the Byrd/Lott comments, just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the time you took to clarify the nature of the Lott quote while still including the nature of the controversy (which revolved around a perceived pro-segregation tone of the comment(s)). As originally written, the section had no indication whatsoever of what Lott's comment actually was, and I thought it was important to mention that.--Hal Raglan 17:25, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem! I thought I was done with it, until I realized that if one didn't know better, they'd wonder what the big deal was. So I had to make sure that Thurmond's segregationist views were put back in. Sorry for the over-zealous editing! Dubc0724 17:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sidney Blumenthal

Hi there! I noticed you removed my comment on Sidney Blumenthal's page that he is associated with "liberal" (the word I used) American Politics. Maybe left-leaning would be more appropriate? Democrat-aligned? Just simply reading over his salon page (http://dir.salon.com/topics/sidney_blumenthal/) I find it hard, personally, to characterize his writings as anything but, he's hardly center and definitely not right (coming from an objective standpoint here). If you were to place his viewpoints into a camp of political thought, what would you pick? (By the way, I hardly think my addition of the word liberal was "grotesque", as you put it, but that's besides the point. FYI, I'm not right-wing whatsoever.) Let me know what you think. Best, --Dgsaunders 15:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello! While I don't believe Blumenthal should be categorized in the article as a journalist of "liberal American politics", it wasn't your edit that I was referring to as being grotesque POV. I was referring to the following, all placed in the article w/out sources: "During Clinton's impeachment trial Blumenthal was deposed by the Senate about his attempts to smear Monica Lewinsky. Christopher Hitchens later accused him of lying during that testimony." "He once sued Matt Drudge for $30 million for claiming that he beat his wife. After nearly four years of litigation, Blumenthal rushed to settle the case when Drudge filed a motion to dismiss the suit for lack of merit and to recover attorneys' fees." The Drudge stuff was strictly POV and in my edit I kept the basic facts of the matter while remaining as neutral as possible. The "smearing" of Monica Lewinsky and Hitchens accusations I completely removed but they can certainly be placed back into the article if properly sourced and written with a NPOV tone.
As far as the "liberal American politics" description, Blumenthal may in fact be a liberal but as a journalist his area of writing expertise is American Politics in general. Looking at most of the titles in his bibliography seems to confirm this. However, if you feel it important to tag Blumenthal as a liberal, it could possibly be done later in the article.--Hal Raglan 15:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Witchfinder General

Sure I'll look at it sometime soon. BTW, you can nominate the article as a Good Article yourself, you just can't promote it. In my opinion, it is at Good Article level and after a peer review will be ready to be listed at FAC. Good work!! Dmoon1 19:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure, glad I could help. Dmoon1 03:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your GA nomination

Please make sure to read the instructions fully when using project pages; for example the GA nomination process states repeatedly (and in a big red box no less) that you should provide a helpful edit summary when changing the nomination list.  -- Run!  08:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vietnam as a campaign issue

Advertisements, speeches, etc. The center theme was "I was in Vietnam", therefore I will be a strong wartime leader. If you notice I framed it to read as though conservatives were the one who made the argument. This is not an allegation, it is a fact. Vietnam/combat experience became an issue at the behest of the Kerry campaign. Please! lets keep it as neutral as we can and not deny obvious facts.--Bairdso66 01:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Your claim that Kerry used his military career as a "campaign issue" was unsupported. I'm assuming the fact that you have changed this to now read "campaign theme" means you agree with me. There is a big difference in meaning. Thanks for taking the time to reconsider your choice of words. Now, I don't agree with you that it was Kerry who made his war experience a crucial issue of the campaign; in fact I think its amazing that anyone could possibly think this when its clearly obvious that it was Kerry's opposition that did so. At any rate, we clearly have different opinions on the matter and there is no point in arguing about it. I will accept your change as a compromise and leave it at that. This section still needs to have some sources added where I've indicated. In the first sentence, please provide a reliable source citation indicating at least one or two prominent conservative critics who made the "hypocrisy" claim. This should be easy. Also, the final sentence claims that Kerry made his service "a crucial part" of the campaign; this needs to be sourced.--Hal Raglan 03:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kerry

Hal, I guess I appreciate your attempts here and like you said it doesn't make sense arguing about it. However, I believed you are extremely misinformed if you don't beleive Kerry brought the issue up. True, conservatives added fuel to the fire, but you cannot honestly tell me he DIDN'T bring it up, that claim is ludicris.Several ads and speeches are available on JohnKerry.com, if they still exist, which show him on a boat in Vietnam and talking about the experience. The opposition came out later on to disagree with accounts of his combat experience. That claim that the oppostion brought it up dosn't hold any water in my book, I lived through that 2004 campaign, did you?--Bairdso66 03:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I never wrote that he didn't mention his military service. He talked about it in his speeches and in interviews. Why would he keep it a secret? But there is a big difference between mentioning something and turning it into a "crucial issue" of a political campaign. It was the Republicans who did that, in my opinion. (Hint, hint: Swift Bloated Liars) But you disagree with me. Fair enough. I would suggest you try to calm down before writing any more of your responses, as your final comment comes close to being insulting in tone. Thats not much appreciated around here (please see Wikipedia:Civility).--Hal Raglan 03:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way Hal, but I am getting tired of having to deal with the reverting by one user(i.e. you) on most of my contributions. I have tried to be balanced and do not feel as your responses indicate that you have tried to do the same. Any way, the show goes on. --Bairdso66 04:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I haven't reverted most of your edits. Glancing at your user contribution page I noted that you have made hundreds of contributions. I've seen and responded to a very small handful of them. You say you're "tired of having to deal with" these reverts. Sorry to tell you, in case you hadn't noticed it already, but that is the very nature of wikipedia; nobody's edits are set in stone and in fact all of us run the risk of having our contributions always being questioned and possibly changed/deleted/tweaked by other editors. You seem to be taking this very personally, when in fact all I've asked of you is to remember to always consider wikpedia's NPOV and verifiability policies. I'm hoping that you really have read and understood these by now. The verifiability policy requires that everything we add to wikipedia be verified by reliable sources. There are many rules and suggestions on wikipedia but to me those are the most important. Most of your edits seem to be good faith edits but the ones I've questioned are easily fixed simply by reducing the POV tone and adding sources. The Kerry section is fine now (or at least it was last night) as written except for the fact that it has uncited assertions. Also, please let me add if you have any real problems with my editing of your contributions, to take your concerns to the respective article's talk page. That's usually the best way to resolve any concerns. Immediately jumping on another editor's talk page in response and questioning them seems a little antagonistic to me.--Hal Raglan 13:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Check out the new additions to the vietnam campaign article, I added two conservative critics. --Bairdso66 23:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stephen Colbert accessdate links

Why did you change the accessdate links back to being like July 7, 2006? If they're like that, they look like [[July 7, 2006]] with the brackets included in the ref display's output. If they're changed to being the YYYY-MM-DD format, they'll look correct in all date preferences. Also, its the format used by the other refs, and is recommended by the {{cite news}} template. Kevin_b_er 20:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I really do apologize: I meant to make one modest change in the introductory paragraph and somehow stupidly ended up reverting to an entire earlier version, complete with a multitude of differences I didn't mean to include. Sorry for the confusion.Hal Raglan 21:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nagin

Hi. I'm not sure why you wish to insist that there's only been one design of Wonka related satire on the Ray Nagin article. I put in a link to a Times-Picayune article mentioning two others, and reference to several more (including a couple of pix I took around town with such shirts visibile) on the article talk page. Should you wish to find more, a few minutes of google search for variations on combinations of "Nagin" "Ray" "Chocolate" "Willy" "Wonka" "Mayor" should turn such up. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 15:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello. There seems to be some confusion on your part as to what issue I was addressing. Any/all claims should be verifiable by a reliable source, and that source should be clearly cited/referenced in the article. This is basic wikipedia policy. The citation that was originally included only mentioned ONE online store that sold the referenced T-Shirts. I never wrote anything about T-Shirt designs; your claim was that several sources were selling shirts, while the cited article only mentioned one store. Now that you've added the link to the Times-Picayune article that clearly indicates other vendors, my concerns have been addressed. This link was not included in the article previously. Thanks.Hal Raglan 16:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I see we were editing somewhat at cross purposes. I was trying to correct what I knew to be an inaccurate description of the situation in the article text, whereas you were editing to put the article in accordance with what was in that single link. I'm glad we seem to have resolved this detail. Thanks for your work. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 16:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thank you for your vote on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill O'Reilly controversies (second nomination). --Blue Tie 02:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Witchfinder General

The article is looking great. A few minor notes. I noticed in quite a few uses of the word relatively, as in "relatively smooth", "relatively small budget." Consider removing or replacing with content. As to comprehensiveness, I was comparing it to a few other film FAs--is there material for sections on writing, direction, music and casting? I am not saying you need all of these, just that these sections have been addressed in other FA movie articles, and past examples can be the best teachers. Oh, I added one fact template--that section contains a very specific list of movies that were influenced by this movie; screams for a citation.--Fuhghettaboutit 00:15, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Congrats on the FA!--Fuhghettaboutit 18:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey Hal. How's everyhting? Noticed your edit on my watchlist, thought commenting it out might help. Feel free to revert.--Fuhghettaboutit 04:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wallace

You don't beleive Olbermann's hate-filled commentary belong on the wallace page??--Bairdso66 16:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Judith Crist page

Thanks for taking out the POV on the Crist, Judith page. What I meant when I wrote "accomplished" was "prolific." My bad :) SaraK

[edit] Pauline Kael is a Jew

I noticed that you just removed all references to Pauline Kael's being a Jew. Are you particularly opposed to having this publicly displayed? She was Jewish. I see no reason why it should not be included. - Abscissa 04:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

"All references", you say. There was one reference in the article, in the lead paragraph, which I removed. I removed it because the lead paragraph should concisely detail the subject's defining characteristics. Take a look at the following wikipedia articles devoted to other film critics: Judith Crist, Jay Cocks, Vincent Canby, Andrew Sarris, Roger Ebert, Armond White, James Agee, etc. You will notice that they are simply defined as being film critics. If you believe it is very important to anyone remotely interested in Ms. Kael that she be identified as being a Jew, please add it in the biographical details of the article. Thanks.-Hal Raglan 04:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
In fact, I just took another look at the article and in the "Biography" section she is already described as having been born to Jewish immigrants. Why do you believe it so important to mention this fact in the lead paragraph? I honestly don't think most people would describe her as a "Jewish film critic".—Hal Raglan 04:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
None of the people that you mentioned are Jewish (that I am aware). A couple of the articles (I looked at two or three) are a couple of sentences long. You say: "concisely detail the subject's defining characteristics" and being Jewish is obviously a defining characterisitic as it only describes about 1% of the population. Thus, being white, Christian, Chinese, male, etc. would not be defining characteristics? - Abscissa 04:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
No, being an "American film critic" is her defining characteristic, at least in terms of an encyclopedic entry. If she had repeatedly proclaimed her Jewishness in her reviews, and had become famous as being a "Jewish American film critic", then that would be important to note in the opening paragraph. My point about the other critics was not that they are Jewish, but that whether or not they are Christian, Jewish, or otherwise is not even mentioned in the lead paragraphs of their articles. Why should the Kael entry be any different? Again, it is already mentioned in the article that her parents were Jewish, so its not like I'm attempting to keep something important from "public display".-Hal Raglan 04:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Of what relevance, is it then, that she is an "American film critic"? Since she doesn't deal only with American filims. This refers to her being an American. Why is that there? The plain and simple fact is that she is a Jew, religiously and ethnically. If it is so important that she not be labelled as such then we can just leave it out but let's make your rationale quite clear. - Abscissa 05:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, the relevance of Kael being described as an "American film critic" is because that is exactly why she is/was famous. It is standard to discuss somebody's nationality in the lead paragraph of an encyclopedic entry, not their religious beliefs unless that was one of the defining characteristics of their fame. And Kael was NOT famous for being a Jew, she was famous for being a film critic. If she was a practicing Jew (and I have no idea if she was or not), she never discussed it in print (as far as I can recall) or in any interviews, and it didn't seem to be reflected in her critical POV. Now, if she had repeatedly brought up her ethnicity/religion in her reviews as some kind of critical barometer, I could easily understand why somebody would feel compelled to describe Kael as a "Jewish film critic". But she didn't do that. And again I direct your attention to any of the other film critic articles on wikipedia. Is Roger Ebert a "Christian film critic"? Andrew Sarris an "atheist film critic"? Not according to wikipedia they're not. (I'm using those two as examples...I don't know or care what, if any, religious background they may have). And as I've previously pointed out, it is already noted in the "Biography" section of the article that her parents were Jewish. Removing this from the lead paragraph will not be "leaving it out" of the article at all.-Hal Raglan 06:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
You may be unaware but "Jew" is also an ethnicity -- and many "Jews" are "Jews" only by ethnicity, so it is no different from saying someone is "American". Again, there is no need to describe majorities using adjectives to describe their majority status, since, in your own words, this includes "defining characteristics" -- for majorities this might be male, white, anglosaxon, catholic, American, Chinese, etc. - Abscissa 19:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I am not unaware of that. I have no problem with your most recent edit to the article, but be aware that since referencing a subject's nationality is pretty much SOP for the lead paragraph in a biographical wikipedia entry, someone else will probably eventually add "American" back.-Hal Raglan 13:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shepard Smith

I have seen that you have done some very good and thoughtful work in POV and controversy issues. I thought that you may add to this [2] discussion with your knowledge, thank you. I don't believe that someone perceived sexuality constitutes as a controversy and was hoping that you could take a look and give you opinion perhaps? Thank you

[edit] Citing in Liberal Media Bias

In the Media Bias article, I added Fox and Fox News. We need to do this all or nothing, have citations for all, or remove all citations. I say no citations because it would clutter the article. Your thoughts?


[edit] Tenebrae (film)

Hi, I notice that you have unpicked nearly all of the additions I made to this article. I was just curious as to your reason? All of it is verifiable. Mallanox 19:04, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, so noted. Obviously the information I found didn't just fall off a truck, it took me a while to add it all in (especially as I had an update error and had to do it from scratch twice). It is, I'm sure you know, frustrating when people revert a load of stuff that was researched. I realise I'm not "owed" anything but a short note to explain your reasoning would have saved bad feeling.

I do not think that removal of the English-language category would be justified, adding the Italian-language category would be more approriate. As you say, it is explained in the body text about the languages spoken on-set. Mallanox 02:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:FILMS Newsletter

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[edit] A request

Would you mind looking at Reggie Oliver again? Nareek 16:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:FILMS Newsletter

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[edit] King Kong Jessica Lange

The Amazon.com link I provided was not for the customer reviews but for respected long-time professional critic Marshall Fine's review which is listed as "Amazon.com's review". MrBlondNYC 12:48, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pulp

I see that you've written several FA film articles. Pulp Fiction has been collaberating for awhile now and I've done basically all I can. If you could put a fresh set of eyes on the article it would be appreciated. Andman8 01:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Cat and the Canary

Hey Hal, how's it going? I was wondering if you could take a look at this. I created the stub in June and finally completed a "good" draft. While researching this article, I noticed a lack of sources that discuss this film. Most books only mention it in passing. I thought you might know of anything that could possibly added to this article. Thanks. Dmoon1 09:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

A Horror Barnstar is given to Hal Raglan for exceptional work on horror film articles. Dmoon1 18:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
A Horror Barnstar is given to Hal Raglan for exceptional work on horror film articles. Dmoon1 18:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your help with this and other horror-related articles. I don't know if you're into barnstars, but here's one for you anyway as a sign of appreciation. Dmoon1 18:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Pit and the Pendulum (1961 film)

No problem :-) I had a skim through your other film FAs and they're great work - keep it up. Trebor 22:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jurassic Park (film)

I have responded to your query on the peer review. Please reply. Wiki-newbie 18:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I saw your response in the peer review for Jurassic Park. You said Production should follow the Synopsis. Is this a guideline from somewhere, or just a personal preference? Some FA-class film articles like the Star Wars ones lead with the Production section. — —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Erikster (talk • contribs) 20:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
Appreciate the feedback. Since you've gotten some film articles to FA status, can you take a look at The Fountain and tell me if there's any glaring omissions or errors that need to be accounted for? What would it take to get the article to FA status, basically? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 20:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your tips. I'm used to writing descriptive information, so it's weird trying to get my head around being objective in writing these opinionated reviews. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

How is it coming along with your old magazine specials on the film? Wiki-newbie 12:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Do I presume real life has caught up? Wiki-newbie 18:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the extra information. Do you think you can add double references to some stuff too, to increase the article's verifiability? Wiki-newbie 11:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Screenwriter Aaron Sorkin's article in review over at FAC

Hello, I have self-nominated the Aaron Sorkin article over at FAC and was wondering if you could review the article? It chronicles the rise of a Screenwriter, and the collaboration of Screenwriters and filmmakers, and it's about one of the more popular Screenwriters of our day: Aaron Sorkin. Let me know what you think. I would appreciate it.-BiancaOfHell 04:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Films Newsletter

The January 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Nehrams2020 07:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Children of Men

Seeing that you profess in quality film articles, I was wondering if you could share your opinion over a disagreement at Children of Men. There is a mild conflict between a couple of editors regarding a phrase that appears at the end of the film after credits have rolled. Its thematic importance is pointed out later in the Themes section, but one editor believes that it doesn't belong in the plot, while the other editor believes it to be part of the overall package being delivered by the director to the audience. You can read discussion beginning here, going... a bit of ways down. :) Personally, I'm conflicted, as I originally tried to insert it in an objective light (merely saying that the phrase appeared), and leaving the interpretation for the Themes section. If you have the time, your input would be appreciated. Thanks. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 18:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Outside Opinion Requested: Children of Men

Hi! I was hoping to enlist your assistance in resolving a difference in edits for the article for the movie, Children_of_Men. The differences in edits is relatively minor but contentious, with low-level edit-warring back and forth replacing one version, then the other. It has even resulted in one of the parties being reported for 3RR violations. And of course, it has strained civility to the breaking point. A third voice (preferably someone who has seen the movie, but not vital) is needed. A request for editor review was requested before from two other editors, without response. I would suggest taking a look at the key points as they have been debated on the discussion page, but the debate has gone on for...quite a bit. If you will permit me, the two edits take place in the synopsis, viewed by their diff here.

  • One side of the debate (indicated by the linked edit on the left) argues that statements and sounds heard at the end of the film (the sounds of children laughing and playing and the words Shantih, Shantih, Shantih appearing on the screen at the very end) were not specifically part of the synopsis as it was no more a part of the "storyworld" than the credits or specifcally thematic components. This pov statees that the components are solely thematic, and should be only be mentioned in the Themes header of the article.
  • The other side of the debate (indicated by the linked edit on the right) argues that these same statements, by the very fact that they were observable portions of the film should be a part of the synopsis, in keeping with the definition of the word, further reasoning that casual visitors want an accurate depiction of what was on the screen for the film's duration, allowing for any thematic discussion of the synopsis to take place in the Themes section, either in brief or in depth.

I thank you for taking the time to read this request, and I hope you can assist us in finding a compromise.Arcayne 15:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE:Thanks

You're very welcome. Was a nice article :) DoomsDay349 21:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Films February Newsletter

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[edit] Assessment

I'd recommend adding a cast section to each article and then reassessing it to B class yourself once you're done. Remember that any WP:Films member can assess article, just use your best judgment. I helped to assess thousands of films, but it is likely that I was too harsh or too lenient. Good job on the articles and keep adding sections of information that is sourced. Then take it to GA like you did with The Pit and the Pendulum. Keep up the good work and let me know if you have any questions. --Nehrams2020 21:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cast section format

Hello Hal, you are doing a great job of writing articles about films. I enjoy reading them. Regarding the cast section, I guess there is no consensus as to how to write it. In most of the film articles, cast sections are using a ==Level 2 heading== (examples: Blade Runner and V for Vendetta). The examples you gave were the first ones I have seen that use a ===Level 3 heading===. Also, the style guidelines imply (to me at least :) ) that cast sections have the same level headings as plot, production, and references.--Crzycheetah 04:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] March WP:FILMS Newsletter

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