Talk:Hélio Gracie

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] (If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

	This page is part of the Wikipedia Martial Arts Project. Please help ensure that it follows those guidelines as much as is reasonable; if you do not agree with those guidelines, please help us improve them!	Chinese Manual of Style - Naming conventions Indic Manual of Style - Naming conventions Japanese Manual of Style Korean Manual of Style - Naming conventions
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

More Gracie worship. This article needs to be rewritten. Adding NPOV tag until some major edits can be made. --Malathion 01:17, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Coming from a member of the martial arts community, I must say that this is nothing close to Gracie worship. Go look at Bruce Lee's page if you want to see worship. --Aika 21:12, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Changing tag to a cleanup tag.. we need the article to be in better shape before we can start picking apart at piss ant details.. because if we pick it to the bone now, we will be left with an article that fits your anti-gracie POV agenda, but a poorly written article still. --Aika 02:19, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

What are you talking about with "anti-Gracie POV agenda"? --Malathion 06:03, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

hehe, I was just being facitious since you have done edits about Pat Miletich and he has had a running feud with the Gracies regarding a contest between Militech Fighting systems and Gracie Jiu Jitsu, claming that Miletich is the evolution of the MMA game and BJJ is just part of a greater picture now. Bad humor and my fault for not elaborating :) Cheers friend.. lets try to get this article looking better--Aika 22:45, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what you're talking about with any of those edits. I don't recall editing any Pat Miletich articles. To be honest I'm a semi-serious BJJ student for about 3 years now, but I am cognizant of the fact that BJJ and Gracie fanboyism is something we need to combat, in ourselves as well as others. BJJ is not the be-all and end-all of martial arts. --Malathion 22:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 This article was stolen 2 rewrite 3 "submit" 4 NPOV 5 Fights 6 Dr. Mario? 7 The é in Hélio 8 Famous Belt 9 Longest match

[edit] This article was stolen

I can't believe no one has noticed that this article was taken wholesale from the gracie academy website: http://www.gracieacademy.com/generations/helio.shtml. What a disgrace to the Wikipedia community.

• If you are going to discredit Wikipedia, at least have the courage to sign your post. RedWolf 08:01, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] rewrite

I rewrote this article on it's temp page, it should be cleared of the copyright issues. Rx StrangeLove 19:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

• Temp page has replaced the main article. RedWolf 08:01, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "submit"

Maybe it's some sort of technical term, but is "He submitted John Doe" a correct usage? Shouldn't it be "He subdued" or "He subjugated" or maybe just "He defeated"? — flamingspinach | (talk) 20:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

submitted means the other person tapped out signaling that he quit. i'm not sure but the term tapping out may also apply when somebody is caught on a choke and while not tapping goes unconscious and a fight is called. uri budnik 06:37, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, but if person B surrendered, would you say "Person B submitted" or perhaps "Person B submitted to Person A"? Or would you say "Person A submitted Person B"? I'd personally think one of the former makes more sense but I don't know how it is colloquially used. — flamingspinach | (talk) 02:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

your 3rd usage is the one popularly used. for example royce gracie submitted dan severn in a triangle choke hold. this (together with many variations thereof) is widely used phrasing in [mma] circles. uri budnik 06:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

• Technically speaking, you're talking about transitive and intransitive verbs. I agree it's common enough in MMA circles and it's just plain quicker than 'made X submit'. Mglovesfun 18:11, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

The section "Beginnings of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" contains a few lines that are obviously opinion, and praise, rather than fact; lines such as "a certain auspicious encounter would spark the creation of the greatest fighting system in the world." This is certainly not neutral, nor is the line "Herein lay the creation of the foremost fighting system yet to be seen" near the end of the paragraph. This needs to be fixed.

[edit] Fights

1932: Submitted Karate Sensi

Are you sure "Karate Sensi" is a name? --zeno 15:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Mario?

Was there really some clown named Dr. Mario or is this a joke?

In an English Wikipedia article he should probably be referred to by his last name; but in Brazil it is common to call people by their first name, even in a formal situation, such as "Dr. Mario". --Cotoco 22:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

(If anyone's not aware, Dr. Mario is also the name of a video game.) Shawnc 14:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The é in Hélio

I have never seen Helio spelled with an accent mark over the e anywhere outside of Wikipedia. It not spelled with the accent in the The Gracie Way or the Gracie Academy website or anywhere else that I've ever looked. Just look at the newspaper about his fight with Kimura:

It doesn't even have an accent mark when "Vitória" does. If no one objects, I'm removing the é and moving the article back to Helio Gracie.

--Aesopian 15:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, you could not tell what is the right spelling just by the above newspaper, I think it's too soon to move to Helio Gracie (by the way you would need administration rights to make that move). Hélio is correctly spelled with the "é" punctuated. However, proper names in brazilian portuguese can be registered with spelling errors if the scribber did not paid attention to the mistake or if he let the mistake. It's also common to spell names that have a latin root with or without accents: Julio = Júlio, Vinicius = Vinícius althought the correct spelling is with the ´ placed. So you'll have to take a look at his birth certificate or ID, or else it will always be speculation, and the article being Helio of Hélio will not matter. I would stick to the correct portuguese spelling unless undeniable evidence that it is indeed spelled as Hélio surfaces. See List of Portuguese given names. For a small list of places where Hélio is written witht é follow the links: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. Almost all brazillian pages spell it as Hélio, and the majority of english pages spell it as Helio, simply because they are unaware of the accent mark. Regards. Loudenvier 19:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Belt

The caption for the picture says "Helio Gracie wearing his famous belt" but no where in the article does it explain why that belt is famous. Perhaps someone could add an explanation.

--Nechevo 03:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Longest match

Hélio holds the world record for longest match, a feat achieved when he spent 3 hours 40 minutes fighting his former student Valdemar Santana (also known as Adema Santa), losing by knockout from a knee to the head.

I think it should say something line "Together with Valdemar Sanata, Hélio holds [...]" not only he wasn't alone, he also lost!. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.76.120.123 (talk) 19:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC).