Talk:Hán Tự
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While I am not an expert on the subject, I am pretty sure the statement that written Japanese and Chinese are indistinguishable is not true. In fact, unless by Japanese it means classical Chinese written in Japan, then it is definitely false. Japanese does use chinese characters, but also two separate written scripts for parts of speech which have no equivalent in chinese. the meanings have changed, and pronunciations are also often different. Based on this, I would assume the assertion that one can read the chinese characters by simply replacing them with one's native language is also false.
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[edit] Definition
I have rewritten this article because I found that the old article said Chu Nho is a Vietnamese writing system which is not true. Chu Nho is classical Chinese, that was used in Vietnam. Vietnamese could be written in vernacular chinese characters as well, but that is today called Chu nom. - Retval 10:49, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Merger
I think this page should be merged into the Sino-Vietnamese page, although the Chu Nom page should remain sperate. Le Anh-Huy 03:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
- Sino-Vietnamese does not refer to the writing, but to the vocabulary, which can be written in any form. DHN 18:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Requested move
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 17:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Hán Tự → Han Tu — Per WP:NC(UE), articles should be named using the Latin alphabet. This article uses the Vietnamese alphabet. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC) Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Survey
- Add # '''Support''' or # '''Oppose''' on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
[edit] Survey - in support of the move
- Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
- Weak support. Article titles should not include diacritics for indicating tone; otherwise we would have article titles like Máo Zédōng and Zhāng Zǐyí. On the other hand, some other diacritics are acceptable; it's not clear whether ư is among them. Wikipedia lacks consistent policies on this subject.—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 19:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- The difference is that Máo Zédōng and Zhāng Zǐyí are transliterations and not their names. Hán Tự is the actual name. (And I support using complete correct pinyin [i.e., with tone marks] but I know it would be a losing battle). — AjaxSmack 19:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Well, except they are not just transliterations of their names, those are basically their names in English. You'll notice that most English publications do not actually add those tone marks in their names when they are written. I just did a quick search on BBC and CNN, and I noticed they do not add tone marks when their articles mention Vietnamese names. I think we should follow that convention. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:10, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- The difference is that Máo Zédōng and Zhāng Zǐyí are transliterations and not their names. Hán Tự is the actual name. (And I support using complete correct pinyin [i.e., with tone marks] but I know it would be a losing battle). — AjaxSmack 19:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move
- Oppose. WP:UE doesn't apply here since Hán Tự is not English anyway. (The English would be Chinese character which is already taken by a related article). And the Vietnamese alphabet is a form of the Latin alphabet with diacritics (like with French or Hungarian) that Wikipedia freely uses in article titles. — AjaxSmack 02:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose. The English and Vietnamese alphabets both use the same script: Latin. The title of the article will not be any more English with or without the diacritics. Diacritics hold meaning to some. Others may ignore them without any difficulty. A redirect already exists for Han Tu, so there no difficulty finding the page. Bendono 11:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- Weak oppose, but perhaps it should be moved to Chữ Hán (128,000 ghits[1]) or Hán tự (11,200 ghits[2]) instead. Wikipeditor 02:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion
Just a comment - editors interested in this move request might also be interested in the same move request at Talk:Chữ Nôm. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Junyo?
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
