Talk:Guns and crime
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If citing "UN data" or other sources, please give specific references. Interpol publishes official statistics on crime, they are probably far more reliable than data copied from unspecified sources.
Note, however, that comparing crime rates between countries is quite meaningless unless you take many factors into account. Some, for instance, have argued that some decrease in US crime statistics was due to the abortion becoming legal, because it resulted in fewer young men who had had a bad childhood (there's an article by Pr Ivar Ekeland in Pour la Science about it). With so many factors like these, comparisons are very difficult to make. David.Monniaux 08:28, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Cleanup
This article seems to be something of a POV mess atm, nothing more than an ongoing debate between two sides of the issue played out by wiki editors. It would be nice to see more of the claims sourced rather than just thrown out. I'm going to put up a cleanup tag in the hopes it will attract some non-partisan attention. Sylve 15:00, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
Be aware, before trying to compare countries: With the exception of the United States, many countries consider accurate crime statistics to be practically secret. In some countries (both totalitarian and free) the crime statistics actually ARE state secrets.
The matter is further complicated by the different methods of counting crime. ex. England has long been considered to have a lower crime rate than the United States. However, the US counts a crime when it is reported. England has a system that seems to count a crime when there is a conviction. Comparable statistics probably exist, but you will not get valid results simply comparing the "crime rate".24.10.102.46 04:21, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- If you have references for these facts, please add them (the facts and the references) to the article page. This is all good stuff to know. But don't add this if you can't point to a reference or it's just more unsubstantiated talk, which this topic already has too much of. Lkesteloot 05:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I'll do some checking for specifics (if anyone out there can help, I guarantee it won't be a waste of time - at least in learning how difficult getting the answer can be).
Check Wikipedia: "crime statistics" just about last line. The comment on secret crime statistics is based on several sources. The only one I can remember was an article in Newsweek. The article was about the recent Singapore execution of a drug dealer and how difficult it was to find out anything you could trust. I will try to get the (fairly recent) date of the mag. (Like a dummy, I threw it out about 3 days ago).
There are several web sites that comment on lousy official statistics from various countries and Arabia just plain being secret. I'll get the addresses for you.
England using different definitions: This is a 30 year old lecture in law school. It won't be easy, but I will try to get a better reference than just me.24.10.102.46 03:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Spurious claim of increase in UK gun crime
The previous version of the article claimed:
- "In addition, the firearms crime rate in the United Kingdom has massively increased since an almost total ban on handguns in 1997/8, with violent gun crimes, including shootings to death, increasing at around 40% year on year, for over five years..."
I've removed the 40% claim, as it is simply untrue and/or misleading. All "Violence against the person" crimes did rise in the five years after 1997/8, but the highest annual rise was 27.7% and the lowest 1.5%, with an average of 19.2%. In the subcategory of "Attempted murder and other acts (including wounding), the year-on-year changes ranged between +4.0% to +33.6%, with an average of 13.5%. At least 20% of crimes in this subcategory are committed with imitation firearms or air weapons. "Other" VAtP crimes ranged between -0.3% and +33.4%, with an average of +21.3%. At least 70% of crimes in this subcategory are committed with imitation firearms or air weapons.
As now explained in the article, firearms homicides are so small numerically (<=97) that percentage changes are not meaningful, although in the five years in question they ranged between -9.3& and +32.9%, with an average of +10.3%. As is also explained, three years' figures were affected by changes in counting rules, which had the effect of including crimes that wouldn't have been previously.
Nick Cooper 11:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Brady Bill/AWB correlation with crime level contradiction
I've just dated the AWB, and in doing so have noticed the inherent contradiction with the text of the section on it versus that on the 1993 Brady Bill. The latter claims it coincides with a reduction in crime, yet the opposite is claimed for the ten years the AWB was in force, i.e. 1994-2004. I'm assuming whoever was writing about the AWB was thinking in terms of crimes specifically commited with the type of firearms it covered, but it's needs to be addressed with someone more up to speed on that level of detail than I am. Nick Cooper 12:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I'm pretty sure the statistics for Australia vs. the U.S. are off...
I'm fairly sure that 1,300 deaths from gun homicide in the U.S. for 1998 is very low. It's probably up in the ten thousand + range. 54 might be low for austrailia too. Maybe someone can get to the bottom of this and verify it? look at this article:http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/02/murder.rate/ No way that statistic is correct. Someone might want to fix it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.166.126.242 (talk • contribs) 10:13, 4 January 2007.
- Looks like someone shifted the decimal point and used an old figure. The US Bureau of Justice Statistics gives 8,299 handguns and 2,355 other firearms for 2004, making 10,654 in all, which is 66% of the 16,138 total. [1] According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, 53 out of a total of 305 homicides in 2003-04 (financial year) involved firearms (i.e. 17%). [2] I'll amend the page accordingly. Nick Cooper 12:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cleanup, again
This artiicle is still a POV mess. I've made a couple changes that hopefully neutralize some of the stuff, but jeese...
Just look at the Japan section... "Another example (of why I am right) is Japan....".
This page needs a major overhaul. I propose that it should start with the basic conceptual arguments of each side, and then proceed to specific statistical examples with an absence of biased language. I'm no gun nut, but it's quite clear that the "gun control rocks!" crowd has had their way with this article.
- I've reinstated the context of widespread firearms access in Switzerland, as you can't use the country as an example without it. To be honest, I think we should dispense with the UK Vs Switzerland section and just deal with each country separately. Some of the detail on the UK handgun ban should be reinstated, as both sides use it as an example/argument, although rarely with the context that only 0.1% of the population had handguns to be banned in the first place. Nick Cooper 08:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
