Talk:Green Hills Software

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[edit] Stubified

I have reduced this article to a stub. The so called 'Products' was a total unsourced mess. This can now be expanded with /sourced/ material. BlueValour 21:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The unsourced material has been added back without sources. Please only add content back if it is accompanied by a source - see WP:CITE. BlueValour 20:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

See also from WP:V "The burden of evidence lies with the editors who have made an edit or wish an edit to remain. Editors should therefore provide references. If an article topic has no reputable, reliable, third-party sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on that topic. Any edit lacking a source may be removed ..."

The unsourced material is: '*Optimizing compilers targeting a variety of 32-bit and 64-bit platforms, including ARM, Blackfin, ColdFire, MIPS, PowerPC, x86, and XScale.

• Hardware debug probes for platforms including the above.
• MULTI, a multiplatform IDE for C and C++ able to run on Windows, Linux, and Solaris. Aimed at embedded engineers, it is tightly coupled with Green Hills' optimizing compilers and hardware debug probes, and therefore can be used to develop for all the processors in the above list. Additional features include an integrated CVS browser, a diff viewer, automatic code completion, graphical class hierarchy generators, integration with Eclipse, a bug tracker, and scriptable breakpoints.
• TimeMachine, a set of tools for optimizing and debugging C and C++ software. TimeMachine records every instruction executed on a CPU, archives the instructions, and allows the developer to review the executed instructions. (In other words, the debugger can trace or single-step "backwards in time" as well as forwards; hence the name of the product.) On embedded processors, TimeMachine is implemented using a trace port on the CPU. Since trace ports are built directly on the processor die and thus have virtually no performance penalties, TimeMachine can collect debug information at full speed.

  TimeMachine is useful for analyzing race conditions and other Heisenbugs. The ability to replay instruction sequences at a later time is also useful for embedded engineers who cannot use breakpoints because halting the program is impossible (for example, when debugging the flight controller on an airplane).'

BlueValour 21:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The external link points to GHS' Web site, which contains extensive marketing materials. In my revision of the Wikipedia material, I tried to remove some weasel words and subjectivity, to make the article encyclopedic in tone.

I will restore the material you deleted tomorrow, unless you can convince me that you really don't believe Green Hills' Web site, their marketing materials, or the common knowledge of their employees and customers. There aren't any trade secrets in the Wikipedia material that I can see, so I don't think there are legal issues. Please elaborate: why do you oppose this material? --Quuxplusone 00:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The provision of an external link is not sourcing. It is not my job, nor that of any other reader, to try to validate statements in the article; it is your job to source them, linking each statement with a website reference. "the common knowledge of their employees and customers" is OR and not admissable. If you reinstate material without sourcing it will simply be liable to be removed. A more constructive approach would be to recast the material into a sourced form or suggest an alternative. BlueValour 02:26, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I really, seriously do not understand how the "unsourced form" of this article is any different from the "sourced form" of the article on Angela Lansbury. I've added links to source material anyway, but I think they make the article look crass and cluttered. Wikipedia is not an extension of a commercial site. If you think Green Hills isn't notable or encyclopedic, just nominate the article for deletion; I'm a sometime deletionist myself, and I will abstain from voting in this case, because I think its notability is borderline. However, please stop reverting this article to a meaningless stub. If you think there's something wrong with it other than the fact that it's about a commercial company, fix it. If the commercial nature is the problem, nominate it for deletion; Template:prod is thataway. <--- Thanks. --Quuxplusone 05:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

BTW, you might take a look at other pages in the same category: Wind River Systems, LynuxWorks, MontaVista. Maybe you could clarify why you aren't reverting them to stubs too. (I'm not trying to make an argument that "everyone else is doing it!", just asking why you believe Wikipedia standards require more than is already present in the current article.) --Quuxplusone 05:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC)