Talk:Green Corn Ceremony

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This article was nominated for deletion on 3 April 2006. The result of the discussion was Speedy keep.

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[edit] More Rewrite

I've made this article a pet project of mine. I even searched the archives to find out what has gone before. I discovered the old argument over resources. I reviewed the article in question and found that the author did in fact know what he was talking about. I Revised and edited that peice to details that I can vouch can be found in;

Hudson, Charles, The Southeastern Indians, University of Tennessee, 1976

This book is a gold-mine of information.

Peace,

Lojah 23:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I rewrote the article and most importantly sourced it. I'm probably the furthest thing from an expert here so I'd really like to see someone more knowledgeable than I add WP:V sections on each tribes specific variations on the Green Corn Ceremony.--Isotope23 20:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poor Authorities

This Afd and resulting edits are an excellent example of why non-Natives should stay away from these topics. Google is not likely to have accurate or verifiable information about Native Culture. Neither is someone who lives in Germany. As a result of the actions of the admin who tagged and the non-Native Google expert, a decent article with accurate content has been reduced to a small diatribe on an extinct tribe from 1500 miles away. Perhaps this is a good indicator that Native American content shoulds reside somewhere else and probably does not belong here. Asgaya Gigagei 19:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Anything that is not verifiable does not belong here. Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Assuming good faith does not extend so far as simply taking someone's word for the accuracy of information in an article if that information cannot be backed up with sources. Angr (talk • contribs) 19:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. Content which comprises original research should be be in Wikipedia. It was a good call on your part to tag the article. I was not criticizing your tagging of the article, I was agreeing with you and pointing out the issues with WP hosting this type of content and the quality of its processes. You are 100% right.

Asgaya Gigagei 20:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Nowhere in this article does this state that this is the definitive account of the Cherokee "Green Corn Ceremony"... I'm well aware that it has moved away from focusing on the Cherokee. The problem is that there is a derth of WP:Vinformation on this topic as relates to the Cherokee version of the Ceremony. Since you seem to know so much about it, maybe you should write a book, get it published, then we can use it as a WP:V source for the Cherokee subsection of the article. As it stands I will try to tweak this a bit to better convey that this is an extremely broad overview that does not apply to the specific practices of every tribe.--Isotope23 20:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The content is question is posted here [[1]]. Perhaps you can use this as a primary source. I noticed the article was flagged. 70.103.108.66 20:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[[2]] wouldn't satisfy WP:RS. Wikis are terrible things to base on as a source... but at least your article is catalogued somewhere and the content isn't lost.--Isotope23 22:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It's sad that even Wikipedia's content would fail its own WP:RS requirements. Posting a link to that content will preserve it and provide more materials for folks to review. I appreciate you thoughfulness in exploring the content and reviewing the site. Please feel free to use the content in Wikipedia if the rules allow. 70.103.108.66 22:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some other Matter

Be aware that this IP address 70.103.108.66 is seen in headers of an email sent by Jeffrey Vernon Merkey to the Linux Kernel Mail List as recently as Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:15:11. Here, Merkey is referencing his own web site wikigadugi.org as a "source".

It seems that Merkey is up to his old tricks again: posting despite numerous bans, posting to one side of a discussion from multiple sources, deleting previous content that he finds upsetting, principally because it reveals his game-playing. -- talks_to_birds 21:58, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you here to help wikipedia and improve articles are to harass other editors? Review of your contributions indicates you have not produced any articles of any kind other than a single article about Merkey. 70.103.108.66 22:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

See contribs for this editor talks_to_birds (talk • contribs • logs). It appears this editor is here to stalk other editors and harass them. 70.103.108.66 22:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Jeff, you've been banned so many times I've lost count. Three? four? counting IP addresses, how many times?

We all help in our small ways. -- talks_to_birds 22:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

And currently 70.103.108.66 resolves to:

[root@gaiser ~]# host 70.103.108.66

66.108.103.70.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer solera_gw.soleranetworks.com.

and the following header from an email from Jeff Merkey to Al Petrofsky

 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:10:01 -0600
 From: "Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@soleranetworks.com>
 To: al@scofacts.org
 Subject: Posting of Private emails
 Message-ID: <42E50ED9.6010005@soleranetworks.com>

Almost certainly this is a sockpuppet of a user blocked multiple times. --Jerry (Talk) 05:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

An important message

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Furthermore, the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees has ruled that: Where the user has been vandalising articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way, [personal information] data may be released to assist in the targeting of IP blocks, or to assist in the formulation of a complaint to relevant Internet Service Providers. (Wikimedia privacy policy in full)

This notice has been left for you because another Wikipedia user suspects that, perhaps innocently, you may have defamed someone in your contributions. Please recheck your edits. Do not make allegations against someone unless you have provided evidence from a reliable publication, and then make sure you describe the allegations in accordance with our content policies, particularly Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research. Don't rely on hearsay, rumours, or things you believe without evidence to be facts, and don't use sources to create a novel narrative. Wikipedia requires reliable sources for all claims.

If you repeatedly defamed someone, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. If you find that you have inadvertently defamed someone in an article, do two things:

1. Remove the defamation from the article immediately.
2. Leave a note on the administrator's noticeboard saying that you have accidentally included defamatory claims in a named article or articles. (Don't repeat the claims. They will be able to see from your edit removing them what they were.) The claim will then be deleted from the page history.

Once that is done, and the defamation is gone completely from our records, the problem should be resolved.

Jerry, Please stop posting allegations and personal attacks against other users. 70.103.108.66 18:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

So.. Let's see. Are you or are you not posting from IP 70.103.108.66? Does or does not that IP resolve to solera_gw.soleranetworks.com? How many folks do you suppose have soleranetworks.com accounts *and* post stuff to wikipedia? Sorry Jeff. It isn't defamation if it's the truth. --Jerry (Talk) 18:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved Editorial Here

From the front page: Note. The contents of this article refer to the Green Corn Ceremony of the Oneida and Northern Iroquois Nations, and not the Ceremony performed by the Southeastern Woodlands Tribes. For more information about the Cherokee and Southeastern woodland tribes, see Cherokee.