Talk:Green

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Linked from Atlantic Monthly

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[edit] Uncategorized comments

I've removed "However, this is ironic because the only symbol Muhammad chose for his new religion was a black flag[citation needed]." It seems to be a subtly negative statement and does not have a citation and I cannot find any more information on this online.

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hey, this reads very nicely.

An important fact that isn't here yet:

Green is the name for the broadest spectrum of colors that human vision can see... apparently an evolutionary adaptation to distinguish many shades of it for purposes of grazing and getting around in a forest or grassland.

This might account for its wide iconic significance in human cultures, especially in desert regions (Islam), but that's just speculation. The factual part is that humans can distinguish more shades of green than any other color with one name...

e.g. sea birds might have similar capacities to distinguish blue, and you might expect seagulls then to adopt blue as their basis of unity.

Isn't also green the symbolic colour of hope ?
And in French it is the name of the area of the golf course where the hole is, but I have no idea if this is the same in English ?
I won't add them since I'm not sure if they are suitable for the English Wikipedia → SeeSchloß 20:58, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

moved from article:

(?????????????Please could someone verify/elaborate this - as a Chinese myself, I am puzzled by this text, because there is definitely a single word for "green" see http://www.okdaily.com/cgi-bin/ecdict.cgi?english=green . We use it all the time to describe the colour of trees, leaves, etc. Also, qing refers to the colour "light green"/"lime green", see http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=46237&dict=CALD , or describes metaphorically something that is young, or if someone looks ill hence the colour, and a few more other uses. However never in my whole life have I used it to refer to the colour "blue". There is a separate word for "blue", see http://www.okdaily.com/cgi-bin/ecdict.cgi?english=blue . The colour between blue and green, we called it "blue green", "sea green", or if it has a bluey tinge "sea blue". As for the colour "black", there is a single word for that, too, see http://www.okdaily.com/cgi-bin/ecdict.cgi?english=black . Note that, there is a separate word for "colour", hence, if we can also say "green colour" or "black colour" to make it clear that it is the colour we are refering to, hence the two words shown in those links to www.okdaily.com, the first word is the actually colour, the second word is the word "colour".)


Isn't the word "midori" used for green in Japanese? Wiwaxia 23:01, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Insertformulahere== Toki Pona language == I apologize for hasty editing, having said in my summary "... language so seldom spoken that we don't have even an estimate of speakers in our article on it". In fact there is an estimate, and i missed it.

The estimate is 10 to 20. Speakers, not thousands of speakers.

Please direct comments on my complete removal of the link from Green to Talk:Toki Pona language rather than here, as i will be looking for other absurd links to Toki Pona language, and any challenges to the deletions that result should be discussed together. --Jerzy 23:17, 2004 Feb 14 (UTC)

I have changed the page because I am 11 years old!--66.110.197.20 22:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)2 + 2

[edit] RGB coordinates for Green

See the message in the talk about red titled "RGB coordinates for Red", the paragraph about replacing red-words with green-words.

I've added a reference to George Green's page (mathematics, Green's theorem) and, because of the lack of clarity between the people linked, I've added brief information on the supposed character. Hope this helps.

[edit] Green and blue in Japanese

I suggest to erase Japanese from the sentence "The English language makes a distinction between blue and green, but some languages, such as Japanese, Vietnamese, and Tarahumara, don't have a separate words for green and refer to that color using either a word that also can refer to yellow, or one than includes blue."

I don't know about Tarahumara, but this seems correct, as long as I know, for Vietnamese (actually Vietnamese does have words to distinguish between green and blue, but they are not currently used in ordinary language). But Japanese certainly has a word for green (midori みどり,　緑) as opposed to blue　(ao あお,　青), and everybody use both words to refer to green and blue objects respectively. It is true that Japanese did not make such a distinction commonly in the past, and some specific "green" things are still referred as "ao". The most common of them is that a green streetlight is referred as "ao". But a the color of a green sweater, the color of trees, the color a green plate or cup etc. will not be refered as "ao", but as "midori" nowadays.
--Milaiklainim 13:03, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Complement: Magenta or Red??

I just heard the quote "The complement is either magenta or red, depending on your color space". Why are the 2 "color spaces" different?? 66.32.241.40 02:01, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yes, IMHO, compliment color doesn't depends from color space. Kenny 10:13, 2004 Aug 8 (UTC)

That quote sounds like my edit summary. I admit that "colour space" was the wrong phrase. What I should have said, and what I did try to say in the article itself, was that it depends on whether you are using the additive light primary colours red, green and blue, or the subtractive paint primary colours red, blue and yellow. I think the problem is that physicists use the standard primary colours (I believe they were defined by the CIE, based on the optimal tristimulus values for human vision) which are RGB for light (as in colour video), or CMY for pigments (as in colour printing), whereas artists use the traditional, non-optimal paint primary colours red, blue and yellow. Perhaps if the art world were to re-establish itself on physical principles, painters would switch to using the printers' CMY pigments, but I suppose there are practical reasons why artists choose different pigments. -- Heron 15:42, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This must mean that R/Y/B are based on tradition and M/Y/C are based on logic. I know several things that differ from each other with one being based on tradition and the other on logic, including:

  • Tradition: The earth is 6,000 years old.
  • Logic: The earth is 4.6 billion years old.
  • Tradition: The earth is the center of the solar system and is perfectly flat. Seven bodies, including the sun and the moon, revolve around it.
  • Logic: The earth revolves around the sun and is one of 9 planets. The moon is the only body that revolves around the earth.
  • Tradition: Everything is made out of only 4 elements: earth, air, water, and fire.
  • Logic: There are more than 100 elements, including hydrogen, helium, lithium, beryllium, etc.

True or false: this is another example of tradition/logic:

Tradition: the primary colors are red/yellow/blue. Logic: the primary colors are magenta/yellow/cyan.

66.245.78.144 17:15, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think you are being a bit harsh on the RBY tradition, 66. It is not in the same category as the other examples you listed. Your examples of mediæval thought have all been abandoned because there is no practical benefit in retaining them. The RBY scheme, on the other hand, does have a practical benefit: red, blue and yellow are easily available pigments, whereas cyan and magenta are not. I quote: "Some artists have expressed the opinion that suitable pigments for the subtractive magenta and cyan primaries still fall short of workable pure hues. " [1].
Next, m'lud, I quote the Chambers Dictionary, which first defines 'primary colours' in the accurate sense that we all accept, then says "or (in general use) red, yellow and blue".
I agree that we should state that the true primary colours are RGB, but I still think we should mention RYB, because they are still used. What should we call them? "The traditional primary colours", or "the colours that people used to call primary and still sometimes use as such even though they know they're not"? Somehow, the word primary always finds its way in there. What would you call them? -- Heron 19:13, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
P.S. This short article is also a good read. It says that cyan and magenta paint are available, and that the RYB tradition is on the way out. So perhaps your view will eventually find its way into the dictionaries.

Well, what year was it first revealed that M/Y/C (as opposed to R/Y/B) is the true set of primary colors?? 66.245.7.55 21:36, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It must have been after 1860, when James Clerk Maxwell discovered that the additive primaries were RGB and not RYB, and before Aemilius Müller published his CMY subtractive colour theory in 1951. I base this reasoning on an excellent web site, http://www.colorsystem.com/, that describes the history of colour systems in huge detail. There is a full discussion of just about every colour system ever devised from Ancient Greece to the present, with nice pictures. The path to the understanding of subtractive colour mixing was a long and interesting one, but Müller is the first person I can find who used the names "cyan, magenta and yellow" for his subtractive primaries. I'm open to offers of an earlier inventor than Müller. -- Heron 09:56, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Green rubles

I added

This is illustrated by a joke told in the days of the Soviet Union: "Name something green, other than money", with the correct answer being "A ruble".

in spite of having only one source, and that oral (an American who was then just back from 6 months in Dubna). Surely the color or colors of Soviet banknotes is/are easily verifiable, and even if the joke is not, a Soviet preference for green would make the same point. --Jerzy(t) 09:29, 2004 Aug 23 (UTC)

[edit] RYB Tradition

Above it says that RYB tradition is on its way out. True or false: a good estimate on when it will be complete is around 2040. 66.245.105.9 23:15, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] List of terms associated with the color green

At least some of these should be merged into this article. anthony (see warning) 22:33, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Green wavelength

Look at the range of green's wavelength and blue's wavelength. These appear to have nothing in between despite the sequence:

Red-Orange-Yellow-Green-Cyan-Blue-Violet

Any comments on what to do with these?? Georgia guy 01:34, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Green wavelength 2

in 1 E-7 m :

  • 500-520 nm — wavelength of cyan light
  • 520-565 nm — wavelength of green light

in this article :

  • Green light has a wavelength of roughly 490-570 nm

quite confusing isn't it ? --FoeNyx 11:38, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

Looking at the original text of this article by User:Zundark the spelling Colour was used. Why is this now Color? I think Wikipedia guidelines state that for non-culture/country specific articles such as this, the original language variant should be used.Arcturus 13:31, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No response by 3 April so I'll change instances of Color to Colour in this article. This will reflect the original writer's intention and go a small way towards making Wikipedia less American-centric (I don't think it matters that most, if not all, of the other Colour articles use US spelling). Arcturus 11:25, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've been trying to make a list of the top 10 things that Wikipedians complain about. I know for sure that U.S.-centrism is one of them and another is articles that someone is more likely going to want to use a dictionary. Georgia guy 14:00, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Maybe we should put up a banner, "Please don't change spellings, british or american spelling is both fine!" on this page. You see, every couple of months all the spellings move from color to colour and back, with the occaisional flamewar in between. it'd be nice if people just left it :-) Kim Bruning 16:13, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Good point! I'm quite happy with the other colour articles using color, but this one did start off as colour. I don't know about most of the others, though in my edits on Scarlet (color) I've maintained the originial color. I think I'll move onto something more important. Arcturus 18:56, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Bad point! For the sake of consistency all the color articles should use either 'color' or 'colour', not a mix of both. I do not really care which, but since the main article already is color and other colors also use color, we better use that. MH 11:03, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
There is no Wikipedia guideline (at least I don't think there is) which states that articles in any sort of series should maintain the same spelling preferences. The guidelenes do state, however, that the spelling preference of the first major contributor should be adopted - hence for Green it's Colour, as previously noted. This is maintaining Wiki standards. Yes, most of the colour articles use Color, but some (Orange and Cream for example) use the alternative. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The reader will not find it jarring when moving from one article to another, as he might with mixed spellings in the same article. Having some of the colour articles use colour help to redress the massive bias towards American spelling and grammar that is currently exhibited by Wikipedia. This change to Color should not have been effected without at least some debate. Arcturus 18:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Orange
About these coordinates
About these coordinates
— Color coordinates —
Hex triplet #FFA500
RGBB (r, g, b) (255, 165, 0)
HSV (h, s, v) (38°, 100%, 100%)
Source [Unsourced]
B: Normalized to [0–255] (byte)
> There is no Wikipedia guideline...
Then maybe there should be one...
> but some (Orange (colour) and Cream (colour) for example) use the alternative... This change to Color should not have been effected without at least some debate.
Then change the color infobox template as well.
MH 12:11, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

[edit] Does this make sense??

A few Internet sites say that green is the easiest color for the eye to see and that yellow is the most difficult. How does this make sense?? Georgia guy 03:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

that is becuase the human eye can most easily distinguish shades of green. that is why it is used in night vision you *** **** fool. 66.166.172.178 14:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Please refrain from the use of explitives in your responses. Trust me, yelling at someone online doesn't help sway them to your cause. Georgia guy may not have your expertise in night vision, but the point of wikipedia is that it is a place to learn, to become less of a *** **** fool, as it were. Ame Errante 19:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yellow can sometimes blend in with white, but that's all I know. Evan Robidoux 02:34, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to add any confusion, but I will add another different idea to the pot. The way I remember it being explained in Physics class was that the eye is most responsive to the green/yellow portions of the visible light spectrum because it is in the center (I don't remember the reason as to why). Therefore, green/yellow would be more noticable than red/blue at the same intensities. I remember being told that was the reason why the newer fire engines, other emergency vehicles, and some road signs were painted a green/yellow color.Stovetopcookies 00:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horrible Article

This is a horrible article. It is now being deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.166.172.178 (talk • contribs).

Don't like it, don't read it.Stovetopcookies 00:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lime/ green, no cmyk representation, HUH?

I don't know about you, but green green as in the g in rgb is just 0,255,0 , and the cmyk value is 100,0,100,0 , as far as I can calculate. The 0,128,0 has a cmyk value of 100,0,100,50 (at a black pullout of 100%). Could someone source the current claim in the article? Kim Bruning 20:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Have you ever worked with CMYK directly? This is not a bizarre claim, it's just a basic fact. Any software which works accurately in CMYK will reject such a bright green or convert it to the much darker "greenest" CMYK value. The exact shade used would depend on the CMYK profile used. RGB to CMYK conversions are meaningless at best, but that one was just too fantastically wrong to remain. Notinasnaid 22:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Look for instance at the picture [2], which is part of [3]: the picture shows how utterly wrong the simplistic "RGB to CMYK" ideas are. Notinasnaid 22:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I get a 403 on one of those URLs.
The problem is that the color does map to those coordinates, but these coordinates are outside the normal gamut of colors provided by real life ink. If we had perfect ink, these values would be the correct mapping. I do agree that a warning to that effect would be useful, I don't agree to removing the mapping altogether, because it is occasionally useful. Kim Bruning 10:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for perhaps reverting outside by area of expertise but I agree with Kim. I think this situation reflects a bigger problem with the whole colours thing on Wikipedia. Some of the colours are given with the simple, 'naive' CMYK values (i.e. my naive photo editing software agrees exactly with them), whereas others are given with what I assume are values more realistic in the real world. I think someone with authority needs to decide which ones should be used, rather than having a inconsistent mix of different systems throughout. I'd personally say that CMYK (100,0,100,0) is no more correct than RGB (0,255,0), all RGB and CMYK values need to be transformed according to the properties of the inks/phosphors involved before they can be used. If I went to a printer and asked for a bright green rectangle on a piece of paper, he'd probably use CMYK (100,0,100,0) or similar; he wouldn't say "No-one can print green, it's impossible." --RobertStar20 10:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3d8e01

What color would you say E9ECFF as? I thought at first hat was the color for green, but, no, it's not. The Web Color for it is 008000. Is there any differences?
Look these are what they look like:
008000
3d8e01
I see none, but, that's just me. 4myself4 23:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

There are 24 million combinations of colour possible if you code them this way. A lot of them, probably a million or two, will look green. These are similar, but not identical, colors. Notinasnaid 23:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unlucky?

has anyone else heard of green being an unlucky colour? --86.20.247.36 15:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Donald Campbell wouldn't have anything green anywhere near him. He certainly considered it an unlucky colour, and I've heard this superstition elsewhere. Arcturus 20:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irish Flag

I think the statement about the green in the Irish flag being derived from shamrock is untrue. See this link to the FOTW website [4]. There's no mention of it on that site. If no dissenters, I'll remove the statement in a couple of days. Arcturus 20:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Never heard of that, but would love to know where the association of green with Ireland comes from. Care to work together finding out why as opposed to deleting without replacing? --sony-youthtalk 00:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I would agree that the statement is probably untrue. I imagine that green is associated with Ireland because we get lots of rain, so the grass is very green and there is rather a lot of it. List of country nicknames gives: "The Emerald Isle - from the lush green of the Irish landscape". Grass is certainly a lot more common than shamrocks. Martin 14:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps this website gives a definitive answer [5]. Sony-youth - agreed. Can anyone find out anything else? If so, add it here and I'll edit the article accordingly. Arcturus 19:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Green-eyed monster

Why is jealousy associated with the color green? Drutt 06:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

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