User talk:Gram123

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Contents 1 Moving pages 2 Re: Late Night Tales 3 List of independent record labels 4 Fabric Live 17 5 Amady / Amdy 6 Eastern Cinema template 7 Zero 7 8 Ran (film) 9 re: Black Star 10 East Asian Cinema 11 Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot 12 Welcome to the Films WikiProject! 13 WP:FILMS Newsletter 14 World cinema navigation template 15 South to Latin America ? 16 WP:FILMS Newsletter 17 Notice 18 WP:Films Newsletter 19 Middle Eastern cinema 20 FAC 21 WikiProject Films February Newsletter 22 Film template 23 New WP Films department started 24 March WP:FILMS Newsletter

[edit] Moving pages

When you move a page, use Move function. You can see it in the top of the page. You can read more about it in Moving a page guide. The Move function is the only way to move the article edit history along the page. You can't do it by simply cutting and pasting text into a new location. The edit history is left in the old article location, where it is hard to find. But we must know the edit history, because Wikipedia's GFDL licence requires attribution, which means acknowledging the authors of the articles. So a cut and a paste move is actually a copyright infringement.

Also, you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:Naming conventions. The title that you gave for the Stars On 33 (Aim) article is against the guidelines. I made the page a redirect to the correct title. I moved the disambiguation page to the correct album article title, and then reverted the album article. (The disambiguation page had the essential edit history because you left it there when you cut and pasted the text elsewhere.) I created a more illustrating disambiguation page, so I have solved this problem. The situation isn't always as fortunate, sometimes people have to ask an administrator to solve the problem.

If you can't move a page with Move function, ask an administrator to move it at Wikipedia:Requested moves. -Hapsiainen 23:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

• Ok, understood. I will bear this in mind for the future. Cheers. Gram 09:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Late Night Tales

Hi Gram123,

good work on the Late Night Tales albums. I'd always use categories for large series of such items, and when there are more DJ-Kicks articles they will get one too. A suggestion: Maybe you should add a {{album infobox}} to your album stubs? You don't have to fill out all the blanks in them, but in my opinion, an album article with a complete infobox is nearly past the stub stage already. I've added one to DJ-Kicks: Nightmares on Wax now, you can see how it's done there - more information is at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums#Table. Anyway, good work - and keep it up! -- grm_wnr Esc 21:51, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Aim albums is already done right (except that all categories should have supercategories, which I've already added). You just have to put "[[Category:Grand Central Records albums]]" into the article text, save, then click the red link in the categories bar and create the category page (with supercategories - the Grand Central one would get Category:Albums by record label). After that it should work. A tip: When linking to a category, use a colon before the Category name, like this: "[[:Category:Grand Central Records albums]]", which creates Category:Grand Central Records albums. Without the colon, you just put the page into the category, and the link isn't displayed. I hope that helps - I have to go to bed now and can't categorize the pages myself, but if there are still problems I can help you tomorrow. -- grm_wnr Esc 00:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of independent record labels

Hi Gram123, I see you have been adding countries to some labels in the list of independent record labels. That's nice, but wouldn't it be better if all lists of record labels are done in the same way? Extra information in the list when the article is not created yet (eg website, country, ...) but once the article is started there is no need anymore for this in the list. Please check also List of record labels, List of independent UK record labels, List of electronic music record labels, List of jungle and drum n bass record labels who all use this method (most of the time). warpozio 19:58, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

• Ok. Gram 15:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fabric Live 17

yeah i just rotated the tracks and titles, it just makes more sence to me. i am slowly adding the other Fabric Mix Albums so was just keaping it consistent. Junior Aspirin 21:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• ok thanks, i didnt realise the was a standard. i will change the others to match, thanks for clarifying. Junior Aspirin 19:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amady / Amdy

Because I'm an arse and despite changing the link you (rightly) corrected to the version you corrected *from*, I forgot to change it back wnen I swapped the mis-spelt article over from it's redirection. And if that makes no sense, drop me message and I'll explain it better when I'm sober... IainP (talk) 00:33, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eastern Cinema template

You can find these templates by editing the page that hosts it and checking at the bottom of the page for the template. Here is the one for European cinema http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:EuropeanCinema --Jahsonic 22:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zero 7

Hello. I have removed the copyvio text from your comment on Talk:Zero 7 and have responded to it. Please let me know if there are any problems (or simply post on that talk page!) Thanks. --Nick Catalano (Talk) 00:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ran (film)

I couldn't help but notice (Edit Wars, grrr...) that you resumed doing some revamp work on the Ran page. I'm getting another page ready for a Featured Article nomination (Battle of Badr) but afterwards I was going to turn my attention back to Ran, now that I have the Criterion Edition and Stephen Prince's "The Warrior's Camera". Let me know if you're interested in collaborating. (This probably wouldn't be for another week or so) Palm_Dogg 11:00, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

• As you may guess from my User page, I tend to primarily edit entertainment articles that I'm interested in. Ran is in my watchlist, as I'd added the DVD cover pic back in August, not long after I'd bought and watched the film. However, I've only seen it once (too many DVDs to watch) and the recent revamping was done in repsonse to seeing the {{peerreview}} template, and the to assist with the systematic removal of unnecessary date links (try doing a whatlinkshere to a date article!). As such, I don't know how much help I'd be, but I'll certainly keep an eye on proceedings and provide some input if I can. Gram 11:20, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Black Star

As long as they don't double-redirect, it's ussually not much of a problem. But if you want to bypass the redirects, that is of course a worthwhile task. --FuriousFreddy 22:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I've nominated the old Black Star redirects for deletion: Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion#February 8. Please comment there if you don't think the redirects should be deleted (after a small history merge from Black Star(Music)). Mike Dillon 01:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] East Asian Cinema

I notaced that the old eastern cinema article has been narrowed down into East Asian cinema - but isnt this a kinda unfair exclusion? Most people would consider India to be part of the east asian cultural block, especially given the closeness of South East Asian culture and film to Indian. Indian film, especially non-Bollywood industries, which produce regional language and art cinema, clearly support this view. The west asian cinema and culture starts with Iran - India should be included, or else, where exactly would you classify Indian cinema when it quite obiously isnt western? I strongly reccomend either including India in the east asian cinema article, or changing the entire thing back to eastern cinema - because the move seems to be one purely directed at excluding India, rather than one aimed at raising awareness. I would be glad to write that section if you wish. Vastu 05:23, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

My intention was to write an article which drew together the film industries of China, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea, these being my area of interest, and the countries with the largest film industries in what I would know (possibly due to an Anglo-centric view) as "Eastern cinema" or "Far Eastern cinema" or "Oriental cinema". It was pointed out to me that Eastern cinema is a bit of a vague title, and to be geographically accurate, East Asia is a more appropriate term. I have since learned a little about the film industries of neighbouring countries (which would still fall geographically into East Asia), so I created the article and template to be inclusive of these areas.

I understand your gripe - what I meant by "Eastern cinema" is more correctly expressed and understood using the term "East Asian cinema". The move was not done to exclude anywhere, but to clarify my original intention.

I disagee that India should be included within this article, because I don't believe it is geographically accurate to do so. I would suggest that it is absolutely appropriate to have an "Indian cinema" article (actually Cinema of India already exists) and if you so wish, a relevant regional cinema article. Looking at the articles for East Asia and South Asia, it is clear that India falls into the latter, not the former, so your regional article would be South Asian cinema and should therefore contain summary info about the cinema of:

• Bangladesh
• Bhutan
• India
• Maldives
• Nepal
• Pakistan
• Sri Lanka

and perhaps more...

Were a South Asian cinema article to exist, you could adopt the same template format I did (I originally copied it from European cinema). I would be more than happy to include references to a South Asian cinema article within this article.

Gram 14:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

My point is perhaps a very tenuous one - but basically, what im trying to say is the geographical boundry is purely a man-made construct - for example, Thailand, a heavily Indicised culture, is part of South East Asia - thus it is both East Asian and South Asian in terms of culture and geography - yet nobody would consider defining Thailand in the same catagory as South Asia - an article on South Asian cinema would not include Thailand, Indonesia, or another South-East Asian country, yet your article on East Asian cinema does include those countries. The East Asian name of the article is perhaps well defined - but isnt informative, because of this exclusionary paradox - my point is that it is eaither better to define eastern cinema in different terms (I would actually call it eastern cinema or oriental cienma and include South Asia), or be even more strict in the East Asian definition by removing countries of South-East Asia. India is not a middle eastern country, yet is doomed to be thought of as one, despite the fact that South-East Asia bears more cultural commonality with India than with East Asia, because modern racial profiling, to put it bluntly, classifys India on the basis of the superficial appearance of Indians - non "Mongoloid" as some old anthropologists would put it. Yet what is a human? We are made of our minds not our bodies - thus when classifying Eastern cinema, should India not be amongst its other Eastern peers? A counter argument might be that Indian cinema is stylistically different - yet no more stylistically different than Thai cinema from Japanese cinema. I should point out that above your compared the wiki article on East Asia and South Asia - well those very articles illustrate the problem, since the East Asian one infact dosent include Thai and Malay lands.. Vastu 19:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, when I started this article I asked for assistance in several places, and little was forthcoming, so I carried on in my own vein (albeit with an admittedly limited geographical knowledge). As mentioned, the key film industries in my intended focus were those of China, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea, as films from these countries are becoming significantly more successful in the West. I was able to add Taiwan as it too had a cinema article. I couldn't find any Cinema of Mongolia, Cinema of Vietnam or Cinema of Macau articles.

Some of the info I garnered was from the Far East article, an article, which in its opening sentence says "an inexact term often used for East Asia and Southeast Asia combined". As this article was initially called Eastern cinema I felt this to be the relevant starting point, but since moving the article "East Asian cinema" to be more geographically accurate, I've perhaps been remiss in leaving in countries that are technically in Southeast Asia - Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia (someone else added Philippines).

So the solution I would propose is to be, as you say, more strict with the definition. To remain as geographically accurate as possible we should split this article into "East Asian cinema" and "Southeast Asian cinema". I stand by my assertion that "Cinema of India" belongs in a "South Asian cinema" article. And again, there is nothing wrong with these articles referencing one another.

Geographical boundaries may well be man-made, but they are also universally recognisable. If anyone was willing to do the work, I would argue that a continental "parent" article be written too, entitled "Asian cinema", which could draw together East Asian cinema, Southeast Asian cinema, South Asian cinema and beyond.

And one final point - I created an article entitled Asian cinema purely as a redirect to this article. I concede that this is inaccurate, but did so because in my experience, Americans say Asian when they mean East Asian (wheras Brits are more likely to say Oriental). Similarly, Brits often say Asian when they mean South Asian. If proper articles for Asian cinema, South Asian cinema and Southeast Asian cinema were written, this issue would be resolved and the articles would have more educational value.

Gram 23:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Right, I've gone ahead and created a basic Southeast Asian cinema article and template, and have split the East Asian cinema article and template as appropriate. I had a little trouble with the templates, which hopefully someone will assist with (think I may have created them twice). I've also stopped the Asian cinema article from being a redirect to East Asian cinema, making a very basic stub. I've made reference in each of these 3 articles to South Asian cinema Gram 00:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

That seems to be the best solution then - thanks for changing it - I will check the new articles out later, and try to help with their content if I can. Vastu 06:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Welcome to the Films WikiProject!

[edit] WP:FILMS Newsletter

The November 2006 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Cbrown1023 23:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World cinema navigation template

Hi Gram. There's discussion going on here, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films#New Cinema navigation box, about a box that would go at the bottom of world cinema articles like the ones you started for South American cinema, Asian cinema, etc. There's some confusion and concern about some things, like maybe Cuba and Puerto Rico being better grouped under a Latin Americam cinema article and Turkey's presence in the middle east. Maybe you could add your voice to the proceedings? What do you think? Take care. — WiseKwai 17:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South to Latin America ?

Hi Gram123, thanks for giving opinion on the world navigation. I hope you approve of the template as it mentions sub-regions without splitting vertically. Under 800x600 resolution it really hurt. One thing is the South American cinema. Can it become Latin America to include all countries from Mexico down. The merge to "Americas" is maybe not the best, but given the few of countries of N.America, it makes the template smaller. I've started a section for such issues in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films#Notes on "Cinema of (Country)" series and would appreciate if you post your opinion there. Thanks. Hoverfish 15:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:FILMS Newsletter

The December 2006 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Please also, if you have not already, add your name to the Member List. Cbrown1023 00:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notice

This is to inform you that Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Categorization has started. Any contributions in further developing it are warmly welcome. Hoverfish Talk 15:42, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Films Newsletter

The January 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Nehrams2020 07:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Middle Eastern cinema

Hi Gram, there is plenty of sourced evidence that cinema of Iran/Persia doesn't fall under Middle Eastern cinema. Look in my tak page, if you like, for links to sites and google search results about the issue and if you like take a look about Egypt etc. I am trying to come up with some rearrangments, if possible, so I would be glad to have your opinion on all this. I know we've been through all this in WP Films before, but even so. Hoverfish Talk 23:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm quite with you in that since we are doing this by geographic boundaries, we should keep it regional. There is no big deal subdividing India to cultural/language zones, like it's no big deal to divide Africa into Arab/non-Arab (or maybe North to indicate Arab countries) for cultural reasons. But when it comes to Asia, I am all for going exclusively by regions. To avoid the Middle East dillema (Turkey is also in this), although a very well-known term, there is the widely acceptable alternative term "Western Asia", which takes in all Middle East (Arab and non-Arab), Turkey and as deep as Iraq (if they had any cinema before "liberation"). But even if we let Middle East as it is (with Turkey in it), Iran/Persia should go to another zone, and since we don't use the generic "Asian cinema" before subdividing, we could place it quite acceptably in South Asian Cinema. Iran, Afganistan and Pakistan are regionally together and they can all be said to be South Asia. Hoverfish Talk 18:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC

Hi Gram! Just in case you have time:

I would like to have your comments on my recent work for further improvement. Any suggestion will be very much appreciated. Thanks. Sangak 18:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Films February Newsletter

The February 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Cbrown1023 talk 22:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Film template

Hi Gram123! There is important talk about the film template. Your opinion would be appreciated in Template talk:Film. Thanks. Hoverfish Talk 09:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New WP Films department started

The Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/List and navigation management department has started and you are welcome and encouraged to participate. Hoverfish Talk 08:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] March WP:FILMS Newsletter

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