Talk:Gold Diggers of Broadway (film)

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[edit] Technicolor

It's not really necessary to go into detail on this page as to how the Technicolor system worked, is it? The Technicolor page, to which this is linked to, does a good job of that already. The Photoplayer 05:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

My reasons for doing this were not to change the Technicolor pages, which I had a scan through and although much improved contain points I would have liked to see clarified, so I enlarged information about the particular version of Technicolor used on the film just for this entry. The section needs removed, but I would be pleased to see the Technicolor entry enchanced with more of this detail a few points clarified and I would have to dig out far more references at the moment and don't have time.

Just some of these would things like:

• transfter process made underwater
• roller pressure used to force imbibition
• wash jets uised to control dye strength
• matices could be rewashed and reused
• printing was a continuous non stop process (reels printed in batches in sequence)
• print quality problems in 1930
• lack of definition due to dye spread
• discontent with quality (New York times hostile reviews - See review for 'Woman Hungry' as an example)
• The two color process did not use a key image (ref SMTPE minutes)
• The floating dye troughs were only used for cemented prints, the matrices were dyed in tanks (see Colour Cinematography - 1951 AB Klein)
• The taking filters were improved so they could be removed and replaced with different combinations for outdoor work to prevent a green sky being recorded.
• The print definition was improved in 1931, using combined improved processing methods ands a faster film.
• The price for a single feature contract was $50,000 non refundable.

Excellent points and I share your enthusiasm for adding this important information. If you could do me a favor and please post this on the Technicolor talk page as a "to do" list, I'd be ever so greatful (and I'm sure people would oblige by looking up the proper sources and then adding this information to the page. At that point, we can remove the information from here and add a "see Technicolor page for more information" note. The Photoplayer 16:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank-you. My main reason for not adding to the Technicolor page yet is that each point really needs to be properly referenced and it takes time to do that. The probem with Technicolor is that there isn't much written on the subject and recent books have muddied the waters. To provide more than a scant listing would involve a lot of careful and complex referencing. Most previous Internet attempts have concentrated on the camera mostly, but haven't menntioned much about the transfer machine. To prevent movie fans enthusiastically contesting information, citing authorative references might be the best answer. SMPTE articles are very useful in this regard as being written at that time. Klein's book 'Colour Cinematography' gives an incredibly detailed description of the transfer process. --Emitron1 18:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two Girls Dancing

The Fairbanks Twins, Madeline & Marion

It seems that there is some debate as to if this picture:

...is from Gold Diggers of Broadway or from On with the Show. According the the Vitaphone Project website, it is (or at least, it's on the same spool as the other section of Gold Diggers of Broadway, I assume). I know of the guy who owns these clips, so I will email him and find out for sure which is where.

Which also comes to mind-- none of these clips have proper notation as to where they came from. Who was responsible for the content information? We'd better label them correctly before they're deleted. The Photoplayer 17:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

All the clips bar one are from the recently found color nitrate. The Vitaphone site labelled the clip of the two girls as from 'Gold Diggers of Broadway. As a b/w print exists of 'On With the Show' exists and matches, it can be determined that this shot is from that film. --Emitron1 17:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Which begs the question: was this on the Gold Diggers roll (and if so, why?). If it was on the Gold Diggers roll, do you think it's possible that perhaps this is a stock shot reused from On with the Show or vice versa? They have it labeled as the former, but this seems like an error on their part. The Photoplayer 17:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you make a very good point. The audience shots for both films (and Sally) are all photographed from the same session. It may have been a re-use of footage. However the sequence with Winnie Lightner and Albert Gran takes place away from the stage setting according to the soundtrack. The actual clip of the girls does appear just before the other dressing room shot in On With The Show so my guess is it wasn't labelled properly. :::--Emitron1 18:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. In speaking to the owner, it is from On with the Show. The Photoplayer 19:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I just watched On with the Show again and your right it is there towards the end (it's a very short sequence). I just moved it to the right page. Thanks. Vitaphone 19:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed this "talk" page, and find it somewhat amusing and equally curious that anyone who considers themselves moderately expert in both Vitaphone and musical films (and this excludes Emitron1) would be perplexed by the photograph's origin. More time spent viewing (and enjoying) these films would yield effortlessly gained knowledge, far more than just collecting and cataloging them in the same way one does stamps or baseball cards. The eccentric dance routine depicted is so unique, and the performers so unusual (twin girls,) that even a casual viewing or two of the film should have immediately identified the source at first glance of the photo. -Vitaphone1

Sign your statements with a ~~~~ four tilda signature next time.

The confusion was initiated by experts (the Vitaphone Project). While some of us were pretty sure that the clip was from On With the Show, there was no published source to proove that at face value. That is why (a) we rewatched the film and (b) asked the owner. Now those particular evidences may be used as sources. The Photoplayer 19:06, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know signatures had to manually added, but thanks for your genteel reminder. Too bad this page didn't exist earlier than it did, as any confusion would have been cleared up straight off. I was the fellow who forwarded the frame grabs (courtesy of the owner) to Ron Hutchinson of The Vitaphone Project for inclusion in the newsletter and website, and I suppose the word "Show" threw him off, for it was misidentified in the printed newsletter as being from "The Show of Shows." The error was corrected, although not soon enough. All that aside, I suppose the only hard "evidence" anyone really needed to identify the still/footage was some degree of familiarity with "On With the Show," easily gained via a viewing or two. Jeff (vitaphone@aol.com) aka Vitaphone1 20:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed the new additions to this "talk" page, and find it somewhat amusing and equally curious that anyone who considers themselves moderately expert (i.e. the so-called Vitaphone Project) in both Vitaphone and musical films (and this excludes Emitron1) would be perplexed by the photograph's origin. More time spent viewing (and enjoying) these films would yield effortlessly gained knowledge, far more than just collecting and cataloging them in the same way one does stamps or baseball cards. The eccentric dance routine depicted is so unique, and the performers so unusual (twin girls,) that even a casual viewing or two of the film should have immediately identified the source at first glance of the photo but the silly so called experts there pretend it is from "Gold Diggers of Broadway." I've been looking at the Vitaphone Project website and have been quite amused at the numerous mistakes and errors that these so-called experts have made. One wonders where the so-called donation money (that this website is seeking) is actually being spent on.Vitaphone 09:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The misidentification of the still in the Vitaphone Project newsletter was a typographical error. As to funding and allocation of private donations, I won't even qualify this with a comment other than to direct you to the portion of the web site that details titles that have been restored and preserved only because these funds exist. Then too, there's much to be said for people who have dedicated themselves to selflessly seeking out and rescuing material that might otherwise be lost, with the ultimate goal being that this material is made widely available and once again reintroduced to the general public. Sadly, there are those who look upon these films merely as ripe additions to their own personal collections, which they can then snatch up and sell, or use as trading fodder. Fortunately, the motives of these ghouls are always ultimately discovered. Always. Vitaphone1 14:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Feather dusters at 400 yards? I hope perhaps we can move away from denigrating other people's efforts. I only want to restore detail on this film and others for the good of everyone, so that we can have fewer film histories that proclaim talkies only got off the ground properly in about 1933. All of the early Vitaphone and Movietone films desperately need entries which inspire people in the 21st century to seek them out. There is much to be enjoyed from 1927 to 1932 and this is perhaps the most neglected period of film history. I'd think there are more silents out on DVD than earely talkies from this period! --Emitron1 16:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)