Talk:Global warming conspiracy theory

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This article was nominated for deletion on March 21, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

[edit] On the intro refs

I marked the phrase "The term conspiracy theory is commonly, though not always, used in a pejorative way," with a fact tag, because it was unreferenced. I noticed one editor put a lot of useless refs around other things I wasn't inquiring about. Said editor then removed the fact tag and put this link after commonly, though I don't know why because it seems out of place and the article doesn't seem to be talk about it. The excuse he gave in the edit summary says confirm in conspiracy. Perhaps said editor is unaware, but Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources and are not to be used as sources. Try again. ~ UBeR 21:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Can you cite an authority for your view that "Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources and are not to be used as sources". It doesn't appear to be stated in WP:RS and it is not consistent with the practice of other encyclopedias, which routinely use cross-references for this kind of thing. Obviously, I can go to the article and cite its sources, but this is going to get very cumbersome, very quickly.JQ 00:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually I can. Lest you're lazy, I'll quote it for you: "Wikipedia and other wikis sponsored by the Wikimedia Foundation are not regarded as reliable sources." Also, WP:OR makes this fairly clear as well. It makes sense, because otherwise we would just be arguing in circles (circular logic/begging the question). My claims are justified. Are yours? ~ UBeR 01:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. And although I thought that the relevant bits of the Conspiracy theory article were well-sourced, they actually are not. So, I'll find and add some sources to both.JQ 02:47, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article added to List of pseudosciences and pseudoscientific concepts#Purported pseudoscience

I just need some citations to justify inclusion in that list. Count Iblis 23:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

First, "the claim that the theory that global warming is caused by humans is a conscious fraud, perpetuated for financial or ideological reasons" is not a scientific claim. Ergo, it cannot be a pseudoscience. Real science doesn't care why people may or may not lie. ~ UBeR 00:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What should be the in the claims section

From reading this article, it appears only Crichton's State of Fear and Durkin's documentary are being labeled as conspiracy theories. The rest of the sources in "Claims" have not been labeled as conspiracy theories by any sources. ~ UBeR 01:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

At this point, it would be better to focus on improving the structure of the article, sources and so forth, rather than trying to delete material. If you want to help on the former, that would be great. JQ 19:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I think the unbalanced, unsupported, and other material in violation of Wikipedia policy should be removed first. I will gladly work on improving the article, especially in terms of cleaning it up, etc. after that. ~ UBeR 21:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

We just went over all this on afd. Do you want to reopen proceedings there? If not, I think you should take it that your view that material alleging frauds, hoaxes and so should be deleted does not command significant support.JQ 22:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the article is unbalanced. The "Criticism" section is currently geared towards providing evidence that many notable people have described skeptics as propounding conspiracy theories. I think it should summarise the more substantive arguments that critics of the conspiracy view have made. Of necessity this will need to link back to other global warming articles on Wikipedia, to avoid too much duplication of material, because obviously many of the substantive arguments are actually arguments against what are claimed to be "scientific" arguments made by the GW-skeptics.

Furthermore, the idea that global warming could be a hoax, without being a massive and far-reaching conspiracy, is a wee bit puzzling to me, and therefore the "overheated rhetoric" section could do with an example or being deleted.

This is a point where you could certianly help, UBeR. I included this section because I thought it would be reasonably easy to find people calling AGW a hoax without invoking a conspiratorial motive of some kind, but a trawl through hundreds of ghits produced no good example. You have claimed many times that people who call AGW a hoax are not conspiracy theorists, so maybe you could provide some examples.JQ 10:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

As for your claims about improper synthesis in the article: I want to register my disagreement with the synthesis policy - I think it's an overly bureacratic rule which needs loosening - but it's official Wikipedia policy so I'm willing to adhere to it. Having said that, what specifically do you think is still contrary to Wikipedia policy in the current version of the article? —greenrd 10:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)