Talk:Glitches found in the Pokémon video games

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Contents 1 Should the Missingno. section be split into a separate article? 2 MISSINGNO. is not 'M 3 MISSINGNO. Variants In All "Standard" PKMN Games 4 Trading PoKemon not necessary for Missingno. glitch 5 Missingno merge? 6 Major loss of info 7 Berry Glitch 8 Guess what i done. 9 Glitch City merger 10 Lock Missingno. and 'M pages? 11 Glitch City : Location ? 12 Missingno. and 'M 13 Missingno. on gaming wiki 14 3trainerpoké 15 Proposed Rename 15.1 Survey 16 Old revision of Missingno. 17 Glitch City's merger 18 Move 19 E4 glitch? 20 MissingNo. and 'M left articleless! 21 missingno dex 22 glitches can cause corruptions and freezes 23 missingno dex 2 24 Cloning in Gold and Silver 25 Renaming of the "Mew Glitch" 26 Suggested Merge To: 26.1 Survey 26.2 Discussion 27 cloning 28 Another D/P Glitch 29 Sunny Town? 30 Emerald Glitch 31 Sourcing and other glitches 32 I cloned 33 GENERATION 2 GLITCHES 34 Other games glitches 35 Cloning 36 is the pokerus a glitch? 37 Changing level in Mew glitch allows Level 100 Mew 38 Merge from Pokemon bad eggs 39 Glitch City 40 We need citations here

[edit] Should the Missingno. section be split into a separate article?

I think the missingno. section should be split into it's own article. There is a lot of other information that isn't in this section. Like the item duplication and pokemon over level 100. there is a lot of info. that could be put into it's own article. and if it's so notorious, shouldn't it deserve it's own article?SuperWiki5 21:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MISSINGNO. is not 'M

I think it should be noted that MISSINGNO. and 'M are completly different Pokemon, despite having the same 'Dex number and similar sprites. For one thing, aside from the Hall of Fame bug and scrambling all sprites if its status is viewed, MISSINGNO. is a generally stable glitch. Its counterpart, however, 'M, is a lot more unstable-- it is 'M that causes the game-erasing, permanent glitches. 71.166.75.248 21:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MISSINGNO. Variants In All "Standard" PKMN Games

I also think it should be noted that MISSINGNO./'M, or some variant, has appeared in almost every Pokemon game using the standard battle system.

Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal: "?????", a version of 'M

Pokemon Stadium 1: MISSINGNO. (has a SUBSTITUTE 3D model)

Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen: "??????????", is a version of 'M AND has actual text for Pokedex data. Its sprite is the same one as the symbol used to represent Pokemon in the Pokedex who one has not seen; also, it also has its TYPE listed as "UNKNOWN POKEMON". (type is general information, examples include "MOUSE POKEMON", "DRAGON POKEMON")

Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen: "?", a Pokemon whose sprite is a very blocky "??" and is a version of MISSINGNO.

SOURCE for ?????: http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/goldsilvercrystal/gsc000

SOURCE for ??????????: http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/rubysapphire/tenquestion

SOURCE for ?: http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/rubysapphire/question

??????????'s Dex data is:

This is a newly discovered POKeMON.

It is currently under investigation.

(page 2)

No detailed information is available

at this time.

(now this part IS speculation, but I don't think talk pages need sources...) Perhaps that 'Dex data was added just in case someone managed to view the DATA page on one of the unknown Pokemon? (as noted above, in the Pokedex, the symbol used to represent Pokemon who one has not seen is the same sprite as ??????????, and they might've just set it to use ?????????? as a filler for the Pokedex...)

71.166.75.248 21:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trading PoKemon not necessary for Missingno. glitch

I don't ever recall a need to trade pokemon for this glitch to work. Could someone investigate for me? I don't quite have my Pokemon Red on me at the moment.

No, trading isn't needed. I don't have a source, but it's common knowledge that all you have to do is...

1. Talk to the OLD MAN in VIRIDIAN CITY who shows you how to catch Pokemon, and watch his demonstration.

2. FLY to CINNIBAR ISLAND.

3. Use SURF on the east coast, so that it looks like you're half on land and half on water.

4. Keep surfing along this coast, and eventually, you will find Pokemon whose species and levels are determined by the characters in your name. (I believe yDxDxDx, for example, caused this glitch to give you only Mewtwos.)

There WAS a table for how to get a MISSINGNO.-causing name at a site located at profglitch.tk (WARNING: POPUPS), BUT the site died a while ago and has since been replaced with a redirect to another site that lacks this information. The site even had information on how to encounter all forms of MISSINGNO. with one name (the name was "Zowayix" and it allowed you to encounter MISSINGNO. with UnID'd Ghost sprite, Fossil Kabutops sprite, Fossil Aerodactyl sprite, and the standard glitch-pixel sprite) 71.166.75.248 21:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missingno merge?

I don't think the entire Missingno. and 'M articles should be merged to this one -- they're very large. Maybe a paragraph about each of them should be added to this article in the same way there is a paragraph about Glitch City. Latitude0116 07:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

They won't be large after all the how-to, unsourced analysis, and other cruft is removed. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Missingno. should NOT be redirected here -- it's not good to remove months of collabrative effort simply because some of it is unreferenced.Latitude0116 08:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

None of it is referenced, and the vast majority of that article was speculative, unencyclopedic, and dubiously sourced. We don't need to describe every single inconsistent result of a glitch. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, take note of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/'M, where the consensus was overwhelmingly to merge. The only reason it didn't happen is because I volunteered to do it, then drifted away from Wikipedia for a while. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

There were parts of the article that were dubiously sourced, but there were also parts that were sourced. Also, cleaning up an article doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of large amounts of information: see Wikipedia:Cleanup process Latitude0116 08:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The only source that was even close to passing muster was TRsRockin, and there was a ton of corner-case stuff even they were fuzzy on. In this case, cleaning up involved removing a ton of original research. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

At the very least, the information on the original article should temporarily be put under Pokémon Glitches/Missingno. and then put together piece-by-piece using the best information. Latitude0116 08:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

If you want to do something like that in your userspace, be my guest. (The history for Missingno. is still there.) Just be aware that TRsRockin is just barely passing as a reliable source; all of their explanations of how/why the glitch happens are original research (as they are theories unpublished anywhere that passes WP:RS), and all of the strange interaction between Missingno/'M and games other than R/B is just plain cruft in addition to being original research. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Any experienced player of Pokemon knows that the details in this article about Missingno and 'M are true. Some of this information can no longer be referenced: the pages that contained the data are long gone, and were mostly fan sites to begin with. I do not understand this obsession on Wikipedia about needing references, even though the sites referenced may have been fan sites maintained by 10 year olds. Wikipedia is supposed to be a source, yet people demand citations, even if such citations are less reputable than Wiki itself. I do not understand this. If I set up a page repeating the very same info that is here, it could be cited, and accepted as true.

Please sign your comments. Anyway, I think Wikipedia is not designed to be used as a source, but rather it is a collection of info from various other sources - am I wrong? --Libertyernie2 22:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

No, but that's not the whole picture either. Wikipedia should be a collection of information from reliable, published secondary sources -- publishers who have already collected and analyzed the primary source or subject themselves. Citing primary sources directly is somewhat discouraged because if you start to synthesize those sources into conclusions and speculation then it becomes original research, which is prohibited by the fundamental Wikipolicies. So the issue so much isn't about the information itself, but where it's from or who said it. --Stratadrake 01:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see. So suppose Watson and Crick decided to write an article on Wikipedia -- even after publishing their findings about the structure of DNA elsewhere. The information would be regarded as original research and promptly deleted by people like you, because, after all it would be violating the (NOR) regardless of whether or not they are reliable resources in general. Besides, looking at the big picture, why have any articles about the Pokémon video game franchise on Wikipedia when they could be delegated to sub-wikis such as Bulbapedia? -- 71.96.9.7 23:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Bulbapedia isn't really a sub-wiki; it's completely separate. --Libertyernie2 03:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Bulbapedia uses Wikipedia scripts for the same interface, mechanics for the search engine, functions, such as editing, etc. It's a sub-wiki. -- The M.P. 16:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess what Libertyernie2 means to say is that it's not a sister site (i.e. part of the Wikimedia project like Wikibooks or Wikinews) but a fan wiki (one which runs on the Wikimedia software). --Stratadrake 22:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that's what Libertyernie2 could have meant, but neither did I mean that Bulbapedia was a sister site. (Sub-wiki meaning a site using Wikipedia scripts, of course.) Btw, sorry for not signing in, you'll probably learn to recognize me by my IP address, if not, this is The M.P.. Anyways, these last four edits were completely off-topic, so lets get back to the point of this discussion... -- 71.96.9.7 17:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the (unsigned) comment above. I honestly don't get the need for citing sources if it's common knowledge and/or there ARE no sources to cite. Could screenshots and/or videos be cited as proof? (for example, the fact that MISSINGNO./'M alters the Hall of Fame could be cited with a video of someone doing MISSINGNO. glitch, and then viewing said HoF glitches?) 71.166.75.248 21:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major loss of info

Who merged Missigno,M',and the mew glitch together?I suggest a reseperation,because now,they have less than 10% of what it used to be-Sure merging them is a good idea,but it's hardly informational anymore-No 3trainerpoke,no Charizard M',Barley anything!

I have posted the original information at Pokémon information at Pokémon glitches/Missingno.. And I agree with you that the merge should be reverted -- too much information was lost. Even though a lot of the information was unsourced, getting rid of it isn't the solution. At least people were trying to create a legitimate article -- it's hard to do since Missingno. is an unofficial Pokémon. Latitude0116 03:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't a Pokemon wiki, and it isn't a vieo game wiki, so it really shouldn't have an in-depth page on these topics. However, Bulbapedia would be a great place for this info, IMO. --Libertyernie2 19:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It was unsourced original research, as well as excessive detail about a subject of extremely limited interest. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Look up the WP:AFD discussion on MissingNo. and 'M sometime. That covers pretty much all the bases. --Stratadrake 08:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

On a topic like this, it seems like almost all of the information is original research. --Libertyernie2 15:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Does everyone even know about Missingno.?! Missingno. is actually a pretty large subject. I suggest the merge be reverted, since a HUGE amount of information was just totally thrown away! --Eugene2x ☺ [[Nintendo rox!]] 17:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

A huge amount of unsourced original research was removed, and should stay removed. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

A Man in Black, I'll respect your opinion, but really. The missingno., mew, and glitch city glitches are notorious. They are on hundreds, if not thousands, of web pages. It might have started as original research, but didn't everything? It is no longer original research, as these glitches have been acknowledged by Nintendo. So cut the smug attitude and sh*t. And I'm not signing this comment. You shouldn't care though, as you wrote that back in August, and it's November '06.

Well, sorry if this is off-topic, but trsrockin.com is actually a pretty fine place for info about Missingno., and pretty accurate too. It's no longer actually original research, because many people have tried the glitches and posted them all around the net. --Eugene2x -- ☺ Nintendo rox! 18:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

If they're posted all around the net, then I'm sure it will be trivially easy to add sources that don't mention the 100-rocket-launches Jirachi hoax in the same breath. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think a sentence should be added somewhere in there talking about how similar Pokemon to Missingno & 'M are in the coding of the second & third generations SNS 19:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you have any sources for that? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/goldsilvercrystal/gsc000

http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/rubysapphire/tenquestion

http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/rubysapphire/question

I think those would count as sources; 3 pages detailing the main MISSINGNO. variants in GSC and RSE. 71.166.75.248 20:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Those multiple question mark Pokemon that used to have an article (before you got it deleted because you thought it was too detailed & not notable). I would think just a sentence mentioning them would be okay. As for sources, the only place I can think of right away is the site that is usually linked for these kind of articles (http://www.trsrockin.com/)... SNS 19:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I didn't delete the question mark glitch article; the community did, because it was unsourced and wasn't a glitch you could run into without corrupting a save or shorting your game. I think "The game acts weird when you short it out" is close enough to a tautology to go without saying. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

If anyone wants to see all the original research from the article, then click on the links below:

• Missingno. info
• 'M info

--Eugene2x -- ☺ Nintendo rox! 19:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the merge should be reverted, I don't get whats so bad about original research, if someone discovers something new the information is still valid as long as it is true, so if there was original research in the article someone should test if it is true by going through the steps on their own game pack, if they produce the specified effects then the source for the information can be listed as the game ie: Pokemon red and blue Shadoom1 05:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

That is emphatically not what this project is for, and direct observation of the games themselves is not an acceptable source. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, Shadoom1, remember that the standard for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. In other words, it's not whether or not it's true but who else reported it, because doing your own individual research to verify it is not allowed either. --Stratadrake 06:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

As the original creator of the "The Mechanics of the 'Mew glitch'" article, I can see how the Wiki community wanted to merge my article with the Notable glitches in the Pokémon video games article, but I did not appreciate the loss of a lot of my information. I'm pretty sure everyone knows the glitch exists, but if not, NOA has confirmed it. Now, for the accusation that it was original research, think again. Firstly, the article you merged mine with, Notable glitches in the Pokémon video games, contained information that supported every factor of the "Mew glitch" that I included in my article, just in less detail (the reason why the merge did not offend me), but none of my more thorough information, (it, itself, confirmed by NOA) was included in the newly merged article. That is what offended me. Secondly, I know trsrockin.com should never be trusted for valid information about glitches, but you can find posts by several people that support my information. Coincidence? Most likely not. (I viewed posts at trsrockin after my article was merged. I hope that clears up for A Man In Bl♟ck and everyone else that my article was not just a bunch of random information that I made up or got from some even more random website. - The M.P. 21:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but the official standard for verifiability is a step stricter than that, by requiring that said sources be reliable. Forum posts, blogs, etc. generally do not pass the WP:RS guidelines. The only official way to disprove status of original research is to provide not just any source, but a reliable one. And at the end of the day, Wikipedia is still not a videogame guide and therefore information regarding how to recreate a glitch should be avoided lest it constitute tutorials or instructions. --Stratadrake 02:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

PS: If the glitches have been officially confirmed by Nintendo, then show us the source or news article that acknowledges their existence. Obviously, that the glitches cannot be reproduced in later Pokémon games is no acknowledgement of anything. --Stratadrake 02:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind. [1] --Stratadrake 02:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess I should clear up some more about my article. I noticed this post earlier, but I thought some more about it. See it. "It was unsourced original research, as well as excessive detail about a subject of extremely limited interest. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)" I'm pretty sure Encyclopedias aren't meant to give information about subjects that entertain the reader. That's just not their purpose. Their purpose is to be informative. Don't get me wrong, I don't like reading articles that are boring unless I'm doing research, but please don't judge articles based on how interested you are in them. Just wanted to point that out. Now to a later post made by Stratadrake. He stated that my article was much too like a videogame guide. If you had looked closely you would see I didn't give any information stating where to execute the glitch, what trainers to use for the glitch, or even when to press the correct buttons. The only information I gave was how the glitch worked, and along with that, it was necessary to state the circumstances needed for the glitch to occur. The part in the article that really was the most similar to a videogame guide, was the part stating where Ditto™s could be encountered. That could have easily been edited out. It may sound a lot like a videogame guide, but that is because you already know how to execute the glitch. Think about it. If the article really was a videogame guide, it would be practically useless, leaving the player with only an explanation of how the glitch occurred. I hope that clears up some more. It probably won't get rid of all the complaints, though, so I'll be glad to explain myself further if needed. - The M.P. 23:12, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the path of least resistance would be to make 1- or 2-paragraph summaries of each glitch on Wikipedia, and put in-depth info on another wiki somewhere. The wiki model is really great for sharing information about topics like these. --Libertyernie2 00:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Responding to The M.P., you're right that there is a difference between a detailed explanation of a glitch and specific instructions for generating it. The confusion is that any detailed explanation of a programming phenomenon will allow a user to derive a list of steps for causing it to happen. Not necessarily the same but similar nonetheless. Verifiability with reliable sources is another issue, because the whole subject of video game glitches is of low-to-zero interest to those outside the gaming community, and without a reliable secondary source to back up any detailed explanations, it is easily challenged as original research and removed. Detailed explanations can be left to a gaming wiki, such as Bulbapedia. --Stratadrake 14:01, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Good point, Stratadrake. I agree that they COULD derive a list of steps for executing the glitch, but are you saying that everyone should originally make their articles contain good information but at the same time not detailed enough to cause this problem? If so, I don't see how making the best article possible for a subject is even realistic (meaning having the most thorough and well-explained information). Now, to what you said about the non-gaming Wiki community. Like I said in an above edit, an encyclopedia, and I assume Wikipedia, also, is not meant to give information on subjects of interest. Also, I do have a reliable, if you will, secondary source. It’s the Mew glitch section of this very article. If you know enough about the glitch, you'll see that it supports everything I said in my article, but in less detail. Finally, I know I didn't give a very good source of verification. It was my first time writing an article... let’s leave it at that. - The M.P. 19:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Though, technically, Wikipedia is not a secondary source.... --Stratadrake 00:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I already admitted I didn't have an excuse for not giving any reliable sources, but think about this. Neither does the Mew glitch section in Notable glitches in the Pokémon video games. Some of the accusations of my article could also apply to this article's Mew glitch section. 1. - It does not include any sources at all for its Mew glitch section, specifically. 2. - If the reader was smart enough, they could derive a list of steps necessary for the glitch to be executed, too. Just thought I'd point that out. - The M.P. 02:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berry Glitch

Shouldn't the Berry Glitch from Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire be added to the list? --Thrashmeister 19:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I guess, although Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire covers it ably. I'll add a see also link. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice if someone could add exactly HOW to access Emerald's Berry Glitch fix.

[edit] Guess what i done.

Missingno lives again on my username:

• User:Philip1992/Missingno Page

Philip1992 17:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)Philip1992

It also lives again on my subpage, along with 'M (there's broken images, though)

• Missingno.
• 'M

--Eugene2x -- ☺ Nintendo rox! 18:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Missingno., 'M, and Glitch City also live again on my subpage, but unfortunately some images have been deleted (I had no idea they were going to be deleted):

• Missingno.
• 'M
• Glitch City

This is a last resort since every other attempt that has been made by users to keep the information intact has failed. The Pokémon glitch part of Wikipedia has been taken over by users that want to shrink down as much information on this subject as possible. Latitude0116 20:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to move them out into article space when you rewrite and source them, but not before. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I think maybe the in-depth Pokémon glitch stuff could be moved onto another wiki, like Gameinfo. --Libertyernie2 16:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Glitch City merger

Everything else is gone, and Glitch City contains just as much unsubstantiated and speculative inofmration that cannot be verified from a reliable source. Let's merge all reliable information into this article as well. Hbdragon88 21:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's on my to-do list. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

But the Glitch City article has much less original research actually... By the way, this is Eugene2x (just not logged in). --68.122.57.11 03:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

How about no?

How about signing your comments? Use

--<span class="user-sig user-Quarl"><i>—~~~ <small>2007-03-14 12:01Z</small></i></span>

--Libertyernie2 21:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I finished the merger yesterday, but TJSpyke didn't like it and reverted. Word of warning for everyone, according to Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages, if no one disputes a {{merge}} request after five days, anyone may then perform the actual merging.

Following that, I posted a survey on Talk:Glitch City concerning the merge. No more silence -- everyone with an opinion please speak up on this matter. --Stratadrake 18:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Do not merge them, there was much more info when MissingNo., M' and Mew glitch had their own articles, don't destroy this one to. Off topic, why were Missingno, M' etc merged? Shadoom1 20:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lock Missingno. and 'M pages?

I think maybe those two pages sould be locked or protected in some way, as I see a lot of people reverting and re-reverting them. --Libertyernie2 16:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

They should stay at least until the information is properly moved here, seeing how someone looking for info on 'M or Missingno will be redirected here, an article that does not even MENTION those glitches, I added an "unsourced" template to the former articles, I think that can help for now, if you're going to merge these articles, please move the information properly. Nightmare X 21:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Apparently the Missingno. and 'M section was deleted by an anon (see here. They gave no reason why, so I'm going to put them back.

I've also listed them on WP:RFP for full protection. --Stratadrake 00:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Glitch City : Location ?

Maybe it's just me, but since Glitch City is not an actual city, does it really have a "location"? --Stratadrake 18:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

No. If you look on the map you will find that you will be in the city you did the glitch with. It does not have it's own spot. --Animine 08:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missingno. and 'M

PUT MISSINGNO. AND 'M BACK IN THEIR OWN ARTICLES!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! I COME HERE AND GET REDIRECTED TO THIS PAGE!! FIX IT NOW!!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.32.125.234 (talk • contribs) .

While you're at it, could you please make a separape page for ghost and fossil?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.32.125.234 (talk • contribs) .

<sarcasm> Thank you very much for not making a new topic, and for not signing your comment. </sarcasm> If you really want Missingno. info, go to Tales from the Glitch. The problem with putting this stuff on Wikipedia is that so much of it is original research. --Libertyernie2 17:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I think Missingno and M' should be put back. Without it, the whole article seems bare with just a few sentences. Plus, a template ({{user missingno}}) links to the Missingno and M' section here, yet it is apparently missing.--❊Đâěţĥ ɱøťőŕ↔☎ 03:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

That may be, but Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability muts take priority and if the majority of the articles' info does not comply with those policies, then the article itself should be subject for removal. Remember, Missingno. and 'M were previously listed on Articles for Deletion and the community consensus was a strong Merge. Recreating those articles may constitute a speedy G4; instead you must demonstrate that the articles need to be recreated before actually doing so. You can create use subpages from your Wikipedia user space to work on them, but if they don't comply with the fundamental core Wikipolicies then they cannot be allowed, regardless of personal opinions. --Stratadrake 01:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

MissingNo and M' have NOTHING TO DO WTHI GLITCH CITY!!! They should have their own articles as they are essentualy pokemon and most pokemon have their own articles. I agree that articles for fossle and gohst are a bit unnessesary. Shadoom1 20:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

WHAT!! their all in one article, this is a dark day for Wikipedia...Shadoom1 20:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Un merge them or add an amount of info that is compairable to what they had when they were individual articles Shadoom1 20:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Put the old pages on Gameinfo. That should please everybody. --Libertyernie2 22:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, this is off-topic, and I realize I havn't signed this, but the MISSINGNO. still does exist in yellow version. Don't bother adding to the article, because this is original research, but using the mew glitch, you can find it. For the most part, the game either locks up in a barcode pattern, the game crashes in a plain white or black screen, or freezes the way it is. But there is a very small chance it will work. The sound in the battle will just be a high-pitch, he is fightable sometimes. However, this next part is freaky. The first time (and last time I accomplished it, the screen showed multiple images of me moving down through all obsticles, along with a biker. The actual character I controlled, however, was invisible. If this happens, just fly away, and you will reappear with your 6th item duplicated. The second and last time it let me fight it, my character moved to the right and challenged the real, invisible me, prompting the battle with the line of the first youngster on the path from Vermillion (let's go, but don't cheat). He was a juggler with six magicarps. If I'd have flown away in time, it would have worked. Instead though, the game froze when I beat him. So, just a brief recap, the odds are very small, but the MISSINGNO. can be found in yellow version.

Well, there's that, and you can trade it over from R/B. Sabre Knight 13:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missingno. on gaming wiki

I think articles about Missingno. and other Pokémon glitches should be on a gaming wiki, like Gameinfo. They tend to have less stringent sourcing policies. Libertyernie2 17:12, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Basically, if we can find reliable sources that mention the information, then we will. It's not like the information is going to be deleted because there's no source for it. I've removed that massive paragraph which was original research, and restored the section to as much as a concise semblance as I can. I will try to find information on the glitches, though. Ryūlóng 08:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Something I just thought of: Bulbapedia is a good place for this too. On another note, the article here looks pretty good right now - thanks. --Libertyernie2 22:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3trainerpoké

Where is it?

Look it up on Google. Wikipedia talk pages are for discussing the Wikipedia article itself, rather than whatever subject the article is describing. --Stratadrake 22:26, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Rename

Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Lists -- a more formalized title for this article. This would be a simple matter except perhaps for current discussions about the Glitch City merger. --Stratadrake 15:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

If you support a specific option, please nest your comment underneath it with a ** bullet. Or, if you have another option to suggest, feel free to add it to the list. --Stratadrake 15:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

• List of glitches in the Pokémon series videogames ? --Stratadrake 15:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
  • As "video games" are two separate words - I vote NO to that specific proposal. --Downwards 06:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

• How about List of glitches in the Pokémon series of video games? --Libertyernie2 12:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

• Or maybe Notable glitches in the Pokémon video games, since the games have a lot of little glitches but the article only covers those which are particularly infamous. --Stratadrake 15:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

These names are really long and sort of lame. How about we finish merging Glitch City here, then merge this article to Pokémon Red and Blue, the only game the bulk of these glitches appear in? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Only problem with that is the number of fans who will cry foul at doing it, especially considering how Glitch City's merger discussion (much smaller than a potential Red/Blue merger) is currently showing very little support (about 30%), even when the "Support" votes have wiki guidelines on their side and the "Oppose" votes have nothing but opinion. --Stratadrake 23:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

So? There's been a great deal of screeching and handwaving, but a distinct lack of new sources. The latter has long outyelled the former. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 11:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

• Glitches in the Pokémon video game series --- RockMFR 20:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old revision of Missingno.

Hers'a an old revision of the Missingno. article, if anybody wants to see the lost content. ~ Flameviper 17:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

We seem to have a lot of user-fied versions, too. --Stratadrake 02:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• User:Latitude0116/Missingno. and User:Latitude0116/'M
• User:Eugene2x/Missingno. and User:Eugene2x/'M
• User:Philip1992/Missingno Page

[edit] Glitch City's merger

How did it get the merge? When I last checked, more people opposed it's merger.- Lord Lonic

We took a second survey after a small edit skirmish regarding whether or not its content was original research. --Stratadrake 02:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I performed a non-controversial move of the page (from "Notable glitches of the Pokémon video games" to "Notable glitches in the Pokémon video games").

Which was easy until I found out that I had to target 42 redirects. Which was not easy. However, it seems that somebody reverted those edits. :S

~ Flameviper 15:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

...And about half of those redirects could be argued as implausible typoes. Just how many different ways can you spell the name of a glitch? --Stratadrake 23:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess you're right. The massive amount of redirects pointing here makes it almost impossible to move it... ~ Flameviper 22:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] E4 glitch?

Removed this section for various reasons. How well-known is this glitch and is or not the source reliable? --Stratadrake 12:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

==Elite Four Glitch/ Darkrai Glitch==
The Elite Four glitch is a glitch in Pokemon Diamond and Pearl that allows 
you to surf out of the Elite Four and then explore a dark area. If
directions are followed carefully, you may get to Sheimi and another way
Darkrai. This may delete your game file.This may be removed from the
English versions.
[1]
[2]

If the sources can be found (and those aren't very good sources) the place to put this is Pokémon Diamond and Pearl. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 13:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I seen a video on youtube. It must be true. Philip1992 16:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)Philip1992

It's true, alright. Whether or not anyone will believe me is another story. There were videos on YouTube but they have all since been deleted. Just search for Darkrai or Sheimi, and you'll still find them in the search results. But, obviously, you can't watch them. Serebiiforums.com is, in my opinion, is a reliable source for these claims, since there are various testimonies in that thread that was linked. And there's still a video left on YouTube showing the surfing glitch, but not Darkrai/Sheimi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hDeKh2gF90 Sincerely, Thrashmeister {U|T|C} 20:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this glitch is true, as can be seen in this YouTube video. I myself have not imported a Japanese Diamond or Pearl (yet), and thus have not personally tried it, but this glitch is very well known among Internet Pokemon communities. As mentioned above by Thrashmeister, most of what is said on Serebiiforums is reliable, and this glitch has been discussed extensively there. -GroudonMan 22:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

True or not, forums, blogs, YouTube (etc.) are almost never considered reliable sources. --Stratadrake 13:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

But it's true! How is an official source any more reliable than players (like myself) who have experienced this glitch? Damned thing cost me my save file as well... -- DavetheAvatar 10:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Go read Wikipedia:Attribution/FAQ#Doesn't_Wikipedia_care_about_truth?. --Stratadrake 12:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MissingNo. and 'M left articleless!

It has come to my attention that SOMEbody has locked and redirected the pages for MissingNo. and 'M here. I have the following to say about it.

Although I'd personally like there to be a separate page for every "glitchy" Pokémon, including four Missingno. pages, I know that there can probably never be such on Wikipedia. Wow, Wikipedia is bad at describing Pokémon glitches. Please either remake this page, or just unlock it so I can rebuild it. MissingNo. and 'M are as much Pokémon as Pikachu, and more well-known (at least outside Japan) than, say, Mime Jr. or Weavile. They deserve their own articles as soon as possible. So please unlock them.

By "glitchy" Pokémon, I mean everything that was not intended to be in the games. This includes Missingno., 'M, ?, ??????????, ?????(all of them), and the "blobs" that are obtained in Red and Blue and Yellow by using GS code 01??D8CF (01??D7CF in Yellow) with numbers higher than BE, or the "Mew Glitch" with a special stat higher than 190.

66.224.229.18 22:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)Jon Armor Mode

This subject has already been didcussed at length. I totally agree with you, however; the merge was stupid. ~ Flameviper 22:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Miussingno. and 'M were AFD'd and the official consensus was to merge, and I requested their page protection to put a stop to the content disputes over those pages. If you want to see them as their own articles again, start up a straw poll to see if there is consensus among the Wikipedia community. Otherwise they will only get merged back again (and again, and again).

Keep in mind: Missingno. and 'M (as well as the other names you mentioned) are the same glitch so there's really no point in having separate articles for each; it's only the minute fancrufty details which differentiate them. They are not official pokémon and should not be described as such. --Stratadrake 02:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Surely you know, Stratadrake, that not only do Missingno.s and 'Ms have different hex numbers, (notice, I said Missingno.s and 'Ms as in multiples) there are also multiple Missingno.s and 'Ms, meaning that they all have different hexes. Minute differences? You could say so for these two, but minute differences between the Missingno.s and 'Ms and other glitches? No. All of the glitches have different hexes, (yes, that's important) they also have different sprites, beginning moves, and level up moves - that's what makes "official" Pokémon different from each other. They could be included in different articles or at least different sections of articles, but not referred to as "the same glitch". - The M.P. 22:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Even so (and btw, "different hexes" is original research as it cannot be verified without specialist knowledge), Missingno. and 'M clearly fail the gold standard for being an "official" Pokémon -- that is to say, they do not have Pokédex entries. And they are considered the same glitch in the sense that they can be generated in the same basic steps as each other. Compare the Minus World: It differs greatly based on the platform, but the means for accessing it is the same, therefore all are considered the same glitch. --Stratadrake 23:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Stratadrake, please tell me you have heard of cheating devices before, like the Gameshark, and Action Replay series. You could hardly call what millions of children used to do each day "original research" - of course, the use of cheating devices is practically the only way to prove which Pokémon (including glitches) have which hexes. If you need more proof than just me telling you that millions of kids use cheating devices, I'll give you some. Try opening a Pokémon R/B ROM in an emulator and using this gameshark code: 01??D8CF (you probably know that you'll have to replace the ?? with any of the two-digit hexes that I list below. btw, this is the code that modifies the wild Pokémon you find in grass). Now, here's where I prove that there are multiple R/B Missingno.s, and that they each have different hexes. In the list below, I'll give the hexes of 'M and, notice, all of the Missingno.s (including the Fossil and Ghost Missingno.s). These hexes just so happen to be the digits you need to replace the question marks with in the Gameshark code that I listed above. Coincidence, huh? Hexes: 'M: 00 Missingno.: 1F, Missingno.: 20, Missingno.: 32, Missingno.: 34 Missingno.: 38, Missingno.: 3D, Missingno.: 3E, Missingno.: 3F Missingno.: 43, Missingno.: 44, Missingno.: 45, Missingno.: 4F, Missingno.: 50, Missingno.: 51, Missingno.: 56, Missingno.: 57, Missingno.: 5E, Missingno.: 5F, Missingno.: 73, Missingno.: 79, Missingno.: 7A, Missingno.: 7F, Missingno.: 86, Missingno.: 87, Missingno.: 89, Missingno.: 8C, Missingno.: 92, Missingno.: 9C, Missingno.: 9F, Missingno.: A0, Missingno.: A1, Missingno.: A2, Missingno.: AC, Missingno.: AE, Missingno.: AF, Missingno.: B5, Missingno.: B6, Missingno.: B7, Missingno.: B8, I'm pretty sure that that should prove that the differences in hex numbers aren't original research, unless, of course, you'll go as far as to say that I took the time to single out a few codes out of hundreds of possibilities just for this edit. btw, ALL information begins as "original research". You're just going to have to learn to take peoples' word for things until you've proved them wrong. Sorry if this has just sounded obnoxious so far, but I can only stand peoples' ingnorance up to certain point - being ingnorant isn't necessarily an insult in this case, either. Now, for what you said about Pokémon being official or not - "the same glitch" is purely a bad description of the glitches on Pokémon R/B/Y. Pretty much, you just called the "Mew glitch" Missingno,'M, or any other glitch on Pokémon R/B/Y. In fact, someone could even take what you said and say that Bulbasaur and Mew are "the same glitch" because they can both be obtained by means of the "Mew glitch", and because of that, they are glitches, themselves. I'm not saying that that's what you said, I'm just showing how someone could easily bend your words. Sorry, but calling Missingno., 'M, or any other glitch "the same glitch" because they can (pretty much) all be obtained, or at least seen by using the "Mew glitch" also qualifies all of the official Pokémon as glitches. - The M.P. 00:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

If the only way to "prove" it is experimentally, then it's not worthy for inclusion because it presents a summary or analysis of a primary source -- and that is a type of original research as well. On the other hand, if a reliable secondary source has already published such a summary or analysis, then it can be summarized and mentioned here, but it still has to be cited. And then there is the question of just how reliable the source is.... --Stratadrake 01:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

No source can be trusted. The only way to know if something is true or not is to prove it yourself, therefore, even Wikipedia cannot be trusted. Like I said before, all information begins as "original research". All information is usually regarded as untrue until proven true (unless the information comes from a source that has been reliable in the past). When, whoever it was, told a story about Missingno., no one knew if it was true or not - until they tried finding the glitch themselves. I mean, seriously. There's no need to be so biased against any information added to Wikipedia. How do you know if kangaroos even exist? Chances are, you've never even seen one in real life. In fact, we should all consider any information about kangaroos untrue until we see one, and until then, consider them an elaborate hoax. What I just said is an example of how irrational your judgements of information are. - The M.P. 02:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you're going to consider all information "original research", I have nothing more to say. Giving sources results in being told that the sources are unreliable. Not giving sources results in being told that the information is "original research". Furthermore, you people are inconsistent with your judgements of information, choosing to be biased against some information even if other information has the same "problems". You can't tell me that Notable glitches in the Pokémon video games has any reliable sources whatsoever. Can you explain your lack of complaint about this article's sources? - The M.P. 02:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

That Pokemon Codebook things that accompanied the GB Action Replay during the Pokemon craze lists every single Missingno. There you go, good enough source for you? - AdamantBMage 15:44, 31 December 2006 (GMT)

No, because (1) whether or not it constitutes a reliable source, is still a matter of dispute, (2) good luck citing it without entering Revert City, and (3) it still sits on the line of indiscriminate information, not encyclopedic enough for inclusion in the first place. And (4) considering the fan-wikis out there which already have this sort of in-depth information, we can simply link to one of them. --Stratadrake 16:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Considering point (4) you made, Stratadrake, there really isn't any reason for Wikipedia to have any articles about glitches at all, than, is there? -- 71.96.9.7 22:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

(3) it still sits on the line of indiscriminate information, not encyclopedic enough for inclusion in the first place. Not all information is in encyclopedic form. To wit, articles about which songs appear on obscure CDs, which, if referenced at all, likely link to the band's site, hardly encyclopedic; articles about numbers, for example, the number Four, which has no references (try finding a reliable source that states that four is one more than three and one less than five; I could go on... Cheezmeister 18:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] missingno dex

missingno #000 normal bird trash like missingno #000 normal bird ghost missingno #000 normal bird aerodactyl fossil missingno #000 normal bird kabutops fossil A #250 normal small garbage rectangle a #250 water small garbage rectangle japanese #205 normal ground AKA:Chisai u symbols 4 #234 pokemaniac small chip like h poke #24 ghost poison white trash like pokeWtrainer#205 normal ground unknown pKmN #250 normal various lm4 #000 water fighting <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/archive/tv">tv</a> screen spoiled pt #205 normal ground unknown 44 #000 glitched normal black screen goldGS #252 unknown various wild egg #253 unknown egg (never hatch) ?????? #254 unknown trainer's back bad egg* #unknown unknown egg (hatch ? or??) ? #unknown unknown ? in circle ?? #unknown unknown two big ?

Zeomegazord 00:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] glitches can cause corruptions and freezes

Warning:do not fight or catch any missingno i noted above (not all missingno are noted but very easy to identify)it will corrupt data and spoil the game Zeomegazord 00:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, what the heck does this have to do with the article? It's called being off-topic. Eugene2x -- ☺ Nintendo rox! 23:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] missingno dex 2

www.trsrockin.com/dex Zeomegazord 00:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cloning in Gold and Silver

I seem to recall that there was a way to clone pokemon in the Gold and Silver versions, by turning off the game while in the middle of transferring a pokemon from one box to another. Once turned back on, you find the pokemon both in the box you moved it to and in its original slot. In addition to cloning the pokemon, it also cloned any items it was holding. I used this myself all the time, so it's legit. I'd say this'd be a worthy addition to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.49.43.98 (talk • contribs) 01:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Aye, I used to do this all the time. What was needed to be done was three things: 1) Save the game before doing the glitch, preferably in the Pokemon Center. 2) Take the selected Pokemon (with the equipped item) and place it into the PC. 3) Switch PC boxes. It'll ask if you want to save and say yes. Here's the part where you have to be careful. Exactly as soon as it finishes saying "SAVING DO NOT TURN OFF POWER," turn off the power. If it worked, you have both the original Pokemon and item in your party and the cloned Pokemon and item in the PC. If it didn't work, you waited too long to turn off the game. The problem with this glitch is that when used incorrectly, the game will, indeed, glitch. DrPantsman 75.183.60.170 02:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming of the "Mew Glitch"

Having nothing to do with Mew at all, how come that name is still used for the glitch? Yeah, you can catch Mew with it, but you can also catch pretty much every other pokemon as well. The article doesn't even mention using wild Ditto to manipulate the Special stat. AdamantBMage 15:23, 29 December 2006 (GMT)

Far as I know the glitch first became known when a player exploited it to catch a Mew in the wild (which was officially impossible), hence the name. --Stratadrake 08:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested Merge To:

How about merging the bulk of these topics into Pokémon Red and Blue, and/or Pokémon Yellow? E.g., leave this article as either a redirect to the games they apply to or a list of links to those pages. --Stratadrake 14:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Arguments in favor

• Game-specific glitches, merging would be consistent with other game-specific glitches (e.g. Berry glitch and Minus World, etc.)
• Topic of limited special interest, and Wikipedia is not a special-interest wiki.
• Disputes over Wikipedia:Notability.
• Disputes over original research and citing reliable secondary sources.

Arguments against

• Game-related articles are already of considerable size.

[edit] Discussion

• Obviously, I support merging the contents. These are game-specific glitches (for comparison: the Berry glitch and Minus World), and we should avoid words such as "notable" in article names. And despite all the revert wars + content disputes over what to say, this article is not much more than a list of short descriptions to begin with, there is no real assertion of importance, notoriety, etc. --Stratadrake 14:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support - it's not really that notable, so it should be a section in the R/B page. --Libertyernie2 18:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
• Reluctant support. These all have to do with Pokemon R/B/Y, so they should go into that article. Hbdragon88 09:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• This should be in the Pokémon R/B article. The "Mew glitch" and "Glitch City" should also be in Pokémon Yellow since it applies to all 3 versions. This is not an important article, and merging would be consistent with The berry glitch in Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire and Surf Elite Four Glitch. -- Jonaboff_talk 15:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• This information exists in this separate article because it is known that there are several known glitches in the games and that if this information were included in the parent article it would add too much to its length. In fact, information about the glitches in the other games should be included in this article.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] cloning

Question, why not add the glitch in emerald that lets you clone pokemon? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.61.26.34 (talk) 22:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

My question to you is, why include it? Has the glitch been documented by a reliable secondary source? Otherwise it's not verifiable and thus not eligible for mention in an encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not GameFAQs, after all --Stratadrake 03:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another D/P Glitch

Turns out that Diamond and Pearl has its own glitch Pokémon.[2]

That would be a hack, not a glitch Jake1324 23:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

And we all know YouTube videos never qualify as reliable sources -- Stratadrake 00:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually it is not a hack. It is just a minor glitch involving an egg. There are more videos about this glitch anyways.72.144.20.77 23:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, the grass Pokemon has Bulbasaur's cry, and the guy who posted it, his screename is missing1337hax. If you could, explain the egg thing?

THis Is What People Are Saying; The glitch is caused by having only 1 non-KO'd Pokémon in your party, and an EGG in the second slot, then you enter a 2v2 battle.Pendo 4 21:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

A simple glitch (aren't they all?). Still not reliable enough for inclusion though. --Stratadrake 04:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sunny Town?

How many people call Glitch City Sunny Town? I think "Sunny Town" should be removed as a redirection name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PichuUmbreon (talk • contribs) 03:58, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Emerald Glitch

by the way the Emerald glitch is real, as members of wikipedia have used it in the past, including myself. the reasion the there is no reliable source is that nintedo probubly dose not whant word to get around that there is a way to keep youre beloved pokemon in emerald and stiil capture them in D/P. User:HHS.student (not sighned in)

It's not a matter of reality, it's a matter of verifiability. If it's so minor that nobody has ever published any comment on it, Wikipedia should not be the first published comment. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

( ^ Formatted with relevant wikilinks --Stratadrake 17:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Sourcing and other glitches

First off, would it be worthwhile to mention that Missingno occurs in the third generation (and I believe the second as well, but it's been ages since I played it) but only accessible through hacking/cheat devices?

Second, what constitutes a reliable source for a video game glitch? It's mentioned on GameFAQs[3] and their boards[4], and mentions on the Serebii.net forums[www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=134181] (where I think it was first published), the Smogon boards[5], and the Nintendo Nsider forums[6]

Finally, the Pomeg glitch might be worth a mention. If Serebii and Smogon are considered reliable sources, it's mentioned here[7] and here[8] (although I could probably find a better thread there) and could go looking for other sources. Tiakalla 03:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

1. - No. Use of a hacking/cheating device to deliberately "glitch" the game should not be considered the same as encountering the same glitch through more-or-less normal gameplay.
2. - Good point, but generally, not only do forums and user-contributed websites not constitute a reliable source, but they in fact constitute an unreliable source and shouldn't be used.
3. - Ditto. --Stratadrake 13:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

1. Okay. Would it be worth mentioning some of the programming background that causes it (i.e, that they're unfilled holes in the hext code list?)

2. I had a feeling on the forums, wasn't so sure about gamefaqs. Hm. I'm at a bit of a loss then, as most of the google hits I'm finding are either Gamefaqs/mirrors/similar sites, or forum posts. For what it's worth, I did find this[9] which is a forum post, but the glitch has been tested and approved by the site administration.

3. Turns up the same type of stuff as emerald cloning (Glitch City Labratories, the site from before, also has the Pomeg glitch as tested and approved: [10]) so I'm at a loss otherwise. The only big sites I recall for Pokemon are Serebii, Psypokes, and Smogon.... Tiakalla 05:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Serebii itslf has dubious value (I've been misled before), but the forums are a definite, definite no-no. They aren't fact checked at all. Hbdragon88 03:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I cloned

Hi. I know how to clone pokemon, and so i added it to the article, it is usable in both generations 1 and 2. But i decided to put it in Generation I so that i didnt make another generation in the article!--Runningcupcake03 01:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Aww, you shouldn't have . . . no, really, you shouldn't have. Twenty minutes editing, all undone in thirty seconds because it isn't something that belongs in Wikipedia. Firstly, this is the type of stuff that is difficult to verify in a secondary source and without performing experiments or research yourself. And lastly, Wikipedia is not GameFAQs and should avoid including instructions, step-by-step details, or "how-to" style information.

With all the reverts and disputes going on, I'm almost surprised that this article isn't worthy of WP:LAME. --Stratadrake 02:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Guh. I saw that section too, but I added sources and rewrote it to make it less game guide-ish (and added some sourcing for Glitch City as well). I'm assuming getting caught in the revert was just poor timing on my part, so I'll be a little bold here and revert. Let me know if there's problems with my edits.

I think it would also be worth mentioning that the trading method of cloning won't work in third-gen, as the games are saved simultaneously and the trade stops if the cable is disconnected (or the Wireless adaptors lose their signal); however, I'm not sure where to get a source for this. It's not in the Sapphire manual, but I hope it's in FR/LG's or Emerald's. Tiakalla 02:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

...why, thank you, Man in Black, for blindly reverting my edit before bothering to say anything to me. :/ If you don't think it's a reliable source, fine, I can try and find better sources, but please check over what you're reverting--the RBY cloning section was sourced by IGN.com's RBY game Guide (which is also used for a Missingno reference), not Glitch City Labratories. Tiakalla 03:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

IGN's guides (which are user-contributed) aren't reliable sources, either. TBH, none of this article is properly sourced, but that's no reason to allow more badly-sourced material. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Their guides are? I thought that was their FAQs that were user-submitted; guide refers me to editors@ign.com for contacting, so I figured there was some sort of official rather than user-based support behind it. Assuming we are talking about the same thing though, I'll take your word for it.

If it's poorly sourced, then it needs to be fixed or removed, doesn't it? I'm willing to look for stuff, but I'm kind of shooting in the dark here, as I don't know where "mentions glitches" and "is reliable" overlap. Obviously, this sort of thing isn't going to be on Pokemon's official site, and I doubt I can find it in print, either. I'm not familiar with the fandom, so I don't know what websites are considered reliable; what would you recommend? Tiakalla 04:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GENERATION 2 GLITCHES

THERE MUST BE SOMETHING —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ZEROEVILDARKCOOL (talk • contribs) 22:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Other games glitches

Why not list here all the glitches from spin-offs games, such as Wonder Mail creation in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon?

Maneco 14:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Because some of the glitches aren't really notable enough for a general encyclopedia such as Wikipedia. There's also the problem of few reliable sources for things such as Pokémon game glitches. Also, Wikipedia is not a game guide, so really, it's mainly just those glitches that are widely known and can be talked about in a general way, rather than something like, "And then Fly away from the bald guy before he sees you, and go fight the Youngster with the Slowpoke".—M_C_Y_1008 (^talk/_contribs) 22:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, the Wonder Mail "glitch" isn't a glitch so much as an exploitation of a password system, anyway. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cloning

i do not care abnout persinal opinions about the athentisity of the emeral cloning glitch, the fact is that it is real, it is a glitch, and it is exploted/come across on a fairly regular basis. it can also be used for cloning items (As it saves what is in your bag as well as your pokemon) and deleting pokemon. It should be added to the article.HHS.student talk to me if you have a coment

The issue is not authenticity but verifiability. Just because something is true does not make it eligible for Wikipedia. --Stratadrake 02:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] is the pokerus a glitch?

in an article in the beckett anime magazine they said something about a virus called the pokerus [a sort of disease your pokemon can get] being found in emerald. is this a glitch? chaosemeraldking 17:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

No; it's a completely intentional mechanic by the programmers. Once a Pokémon has been infected and is taken to a Pokémon Center, Joy will explain the virus in normal, scripted speech. And it's not just in Emerald; it's been around since Gold and Silver. Read up at Pokérus.—ウルタプ 17:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

He's being sarcastic!! It's not a computer virus that the game gets (and not a glitch, so it doesn't go in this article)—it's the kind of virus you get that makes you sick. Except it doesn't make Pokémon sick; it just makes them "grow" faster. There's actually an entire article about Pokérus. --Brandon Dilbeck 18:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. A glitch is a programming oversight or flaw in the system, and the pokérus is quite intentionally programmed. For bragging rights. --Stratadrake 21:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I've got it in gen2 and gen3:)Rock2e 17:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changing level in Mew glitch allows Level 100 Mew

You can use Growl (or a similar move) when fighting the Slowpoke (or any other Pokemon) to lower the opponent's Defense, which turns out to control the level of the Pokemon you catch. So if you use it 6 times you will find a level 1 Mew instead of a level 7 one. Because the game never has level 1 Pokemon, it actually turns out to have negative experience, and due to an error in the level up formula, certain Pokemon (such as Mew and the Nidoran series), if given little enough experience (10-20 is a safe amount) will instantly level up to level 100, because the game counts experience as an unsigned integer and the negative number causes it to loop around. (Source: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2352&start=340) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.29.216.217 (talk) 22:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC).

Forums are not eligible as Reliable sources. So while it's interesting (if true), it's still not worthy of mention. --Stratadrake 00:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Pokemon bad eggs

Please merge relevant content, if any, from Pokemon bad eggs per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pokemon bad eggs. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-03-14 12:01Z

The "bad egg" article has been deleted before, so the key phrase is probably the "if any". The biggest issue is trying to find sources (other than fansites, blogs, forums, or YouTube) which mention them. --Stratadrake 12:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought this article was about glitches that arise without hacking the game. --Brandon Dilbeck 17:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

True and all, but that's not the criteria. We're trying to enforce some level of Verifiability (which just happens to be the official criteria for general Wikipedia inclusion, not to mention a fundamental/non-negotiable wikipolicy), and when most of what we see is transcribed instructions for duplicating the glitch (remember, Wikipedia is not GameFAQs), it just leads to revert, revert, and more reverts. --Stratadrake 23:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Bulbapedia is a reliable sourceRock2e 08:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

It's a wiki, like Wikipedia, as in anybody can change its content (although Bulbapedia does require a login, it's still user-contributed and thus not completely reliable). —M_C_Y_1008 (^talk/_contribs) 14:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Glitch City

You can also get a kind of Glitch city in gen 2, just hear a machop cry and use tha coin case, the game will restart and you will be in glitch city, there is info on Bulbapedia to source —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rock2e (talk • contribs).

That's not glitch city. It just messes up the colors. --Libertyernie2 12:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Besides, we can't source Bulbapedia since it's a wiki that can be edited by nearly anyone (those that make accounts, that is). —M_C_Y_1008 (^talk/_contribs) 14:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess so, sorry about thatRock2e 17:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. At least you know now. :) —M_C_Y_1008 (^talk/_contribs) 17:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We need citations here

If we're going to point out the flaws of Nintendo's video games, then I think we need plenty of adequate sources. We need many more citations than what we currently have. --Brandon Dilbeck 02:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)