Talk:Giuseppe Garibaldi

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OK, why did I do this? Well, after writing a few short Wikipedia articles from scratch, I began thinking how much fun it would be to do an article the "easy" way ... by typing in something from some public-domain source (which is one of the things the Wikipedia "rules" encourage us to do, if I'm not mistaken). Voila! An entire book chapter on Garibaldi and the unification of Italy. And it took me hours! Then, when I had finished that, I decided I needed at least an intro sentence in addition to the chapter, and that intro sentence became three or four paragraphs in its own right. So you have here probably a lot, lot more than anyone really needed on this topic, but wow ... it's impressive looking, if I do say so myself. Where will it go from here ...? Maybe you, dear fellow Wikipedian, can help decide that. I'm moving on to other topics! SteveSmith

I modified the notice "The following is the complete text of a relevant chapter (ch. 13) from Young People's History of the World for the Past One Hundred Years, by Charles Morris, LL.D; published 1902 by W.E. Scull. (Transcribed for Wikipedia by SteveSmith" that had long been on the article, as convention now seems not to be crediting ourselves in the article. But this can still be seen in article history and here in talk. Thanks, SteveSmith! Cheers, -- Infrogmation 15:54, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This article contains a wealth of very good information, but, being targeted to "Young People", it's written in a slightly less-than-encyclopedic voice, and it's really a wandering summary of the unification of Italy rather than a biography of Garibaldi. I'll take it upon myself to address both of these issues. --Smack (talk) 05:51, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
only one little thing: the sardinian kingdom is realy piemonte ... it was named after an italian island only to recognised by the papa as a kingdom

Contents

[edit] Cremation?

I read somewhere, cant remember exactly where, that Giuseppe Garibaldi wanted to be cremated after his death but this was refused for "political and religious" reasons. Anyone have any info bout this? Fred26 14:14, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

This is discussed on page 633 of Jasper Ridley's Garibaldi. User:Italus, 2 August 2006

According to Garibaldi's last wills him body should be burned with aromatic woods. The governament decided to don't to that to keep the body of a national hero. I don't think that religion influenced this decision: both government and Garibaldi were in conflict with catholic church. --203.198.46.123 04:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Descendants

In 2001, Teresa Garibaldi, the great-granddaughter of Giuseppe and Anita Garibaldi, passed away. She was survived by two adoptive sons. Does this mean there are no blood descendants left?

Garibaldi was engaged to Mrs Emma Roberts, an English woman, in 1855. Did they marry? Did they have any children? --YSChengMetz 13:05, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Why would it? Do you have a genealogy? --Smack (talk) 02:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Currently, the Soprintendente per i Beni Archeologici e Culturali per la regione Umbria (Italy), Mrs Vittoria Garibaldi, is the great-great-great(?)-granddaughter of Giuseppe. Cantalamessa 13:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace and citizenship

The article currently states that he was born in Nice, France, as a French citizen. However, wasn't Nice part of Piedmont-Sardinia at the time? --Smack (talk) 19:47, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

In 1807 Nizza was Part of the French Empire under Napoleon I. alex2006 16:06, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah Nice was part of France at the time. I think that Garibaldi was indeed French by "citizenship" but it would be better if someone else confirmed it. Matthieu 20:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Garibaldi was French citizen for seven years, until 1814, when Nice was returned to the Kingdom of Sardinia. After this, all the citizens of Nice became - better returned - Savoia's subjects. In 1860 Nice returned to France, but at this time Garibaldi was still a Savoia's subject, so in 1861 was elected to the first italian Parliament, in Turin - by law, if he wasn't an italian subject he couldn't be elected -. By the way, after the fall of the second Empire, Garibaldi fought for the republican France, was commissioned general, won a battle near Dijon - one of the very few won by the French army in this war -, and was then, in 1871, elected to the French legislative Assembly. He was elected because was French citizen by birth - as Matthieu said -, because actually his birthplace was France, and last but not least because he had fought for France. He soon resigned because the majority of the members of the house didn't want an italian in the assembly! So he returned in Italy. Before France he was in Italy - in a prison or in Caprera - but he had fought during the 1866's war. Obviously, in 1866, he was commissioned general of the italian army, he won a battle at Bezzecca, one of the few battles won by the italian army in that war. He died in Italy. So I think we can say Garibaldi was...an italian. sorry for my awful english! Ciao, Dedo, 17 january, 17.03 (UTC)

[edit] Porn Shop

"Having finished the conquest of Sicily, and opening his own porn shop"

I removed this obviously incorrect reference from the page. Thanks. I mean, a porn shop? In the 1800s? Even if Garibaldi was actually in that kind of trade that's impossible for the times. And, according to my knowledge, he was not in that kind of trade either.

AOC Antóine O'Connor 00:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Where's your proof? If your going to edit articles like that, make sure u have proof that he didn't like porn.


I suspect that a PAWN SHOP is meant....

--Train guard 15:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nizza was never italian

I corrected the sentence about Nizza in 1807. The city was never italian, since the Kingdom of Italy was born in 1861, while Nizza has been annexed to France in 1860. Moreover, the French did not rename it: Nice has always been its name in French, exactly as Nizza has always been its name in Italian. alex2006 10:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

It depends on what you mean by the word Italian. The word was used long before 1861! Piedmont-Sardinia was considered an Italian state even if not the Italian state. When Nice/Nizza was owned by the Kingdom of Sardinia it was told to be Italian in this pre-1861 meaning of the word. Most inhabitants of Nice/Nizza were ethnical Italians at that time, I have no idea about the percentage now. --MauroVan 16:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
As Occitan myself (but I don't speak the language, I am from Toulouse from a Gascon family) it's Niça (or Nissa, but the formal term is Niça) in the local language/dialect and not Nice nor even Nizza (certainly not). I understand the Italians are contesting Nice because of the historical significance for them (as well as Savoy) but if you want to emphasis the differences between most of France and Nice at least use the local term and not a foreign (Italian) one, map of the eastern occitan culture. Nice itself as you can see is part of the Provencal speaking part of Occitania and with all due respect to the Italians we, Oc peoples, have a culture of our own. We've became French through history it's true and we are now bound to the French republic politicaly and culturaly (dare I even say we are by loyalty). It is true the central authority considered it had to educate the provinces and fought regional languages but this is not a reason to call us something we are not. If there is a language in Occitan that is really different it's Gascon which is much closer to Ibero-Romance languages but it's a very specific case, Niçard is not the most distinct Occitan dialect at all. You can say though Corsicans are "ethnic Italians" because they have indeed a much more disctinct culture (although they would deny it and claim they are Italians and say they are Corsicans and I perfectly understand and respect that) although I don't buy any of those "ethnic nonsenses". Matthieu 20:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

In XIX century Nice, Nizza,Niça, politically, was or French or, for the main time, was an harbour of the Kingdom of Sardinia. In Nizza (etc...) was spoken italian, better a sort of italian dialect, Garibaldi spoke italian (with a ligurian accent, Cavour motherlanguage was french!).This not happened in Savoy, where was spoken French, better a local language/dialect -. Maybe in Nice, in the XIX century, was spoken occitan too, but the official language was italian (in Savoy was French - see e.g.: the Statuto Albertino, 1848, the constitution of the Kingdom of Sardinia). I think we can say that Niça was a town where, in the XIX century, was spoken italian, now french and in the middle age was spoken the Langue d'hoc (but I suspect that was spoken a sort of ligurian dialect too, like in Monaco). I can't remember in what language was written the town's statues during the middle age, but I think in latin. So, in XIX century, Nice was italian, now isn't, more in the middle age Nizza was Occitan (I think that was a free town, like the italians Comuni). It's very usual in Europe that a town has got a cumbersome history! Ciao, Dedo, 17 january, 17.30 UTC.

Garibaldi was from a Ligurian family, it is true, no one here is contesting this. But as far as I remember the local population spoke Niçard, not Ligurian, and Niçard is an Oc Language. Should it be the end of the story? And someone once again put Nice was an Italian city, that perfectly arguable. Should we all just cut the problem in half and just say: "he was born in the city of Nice". Matthieu 09:22, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It's true Mathieu, in Nizza was and now is, spoken Niçard. This dialect is peculiar because it has many elements from the Oc language (it's a subdialect of the Provençal) but many Ligurian elements too (it's a distinct subdialect). So I said in Nizza was spoken a sort of ligurian dialect,not a ligurian dialect. It's normal in a borderer town that is also a harbour. Look at the words in the "anthem" of Nizza:"Nissa la Bella". Viva viva Nissa la Bella/ O la miéu bella Nissa/ Regina de li flou/ Li tiéu viehi taulissa/ Iéu canterai toujou./ Canterai li mountagna/ Lu tiéu riché decor/ Li tiéu verti campagna/ Lou tiéu gran soulèu d'or./ And so on... Many of this words are very similar to ligurian ones (miéu bella Nissa). In the XIX the daily language was a dialect - like everywhere in Italy but in France and Europe too - the official language was either french (when Niça was in France) or italian when was in the Kingdom of Sardinia. At last I agree with you: Garibaldi was born in the city of Nice; but, Matthieu, Garibaldi wasn't from a ligurian family, he and his family, was from Nice and he spoke italian! Ciao! Dedo, 12.32, 12 February 2007

That text does also sound like an Oc one with all these "ou". In any case and even if it's a border case it's defined as an Oc language and the text you posted would tend to confirm that. Every border language share characteristic with their neighbour yet following the strict separation of language it goes with the Occitan family and quite frankly it's not the most distinctive of all (check Gascon for this, and yet no one would argue it's not an Oc language). In any case since you agree to just say he was born in the city of Nice I'll write the text that way. Matthieu 14:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Encoding in the article

Noobie question here, sorry, but why exactly does one of the middle paragraphs look like a line of code? Red1 15:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More puerile vandalism

It's time to block 207.160.204.2 permanently. It isn't as if they have not been sufficiently warned....Godingo 18:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Nizza vs Niça

This is becoming pueril, someone once again changed Nice to Nizza. First here it's English wikipedia and it's Nice and the official name of the city in the national language of its nation is Nice, secondly it's Niça or Nissa in the local language and not Nizza (Italian). Matthieu 21:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

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