Talk:Gil-galad

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Is it Gil-galad or Gil-Galad? I am not entirely sure about Elvish (or is it Westron?) capitalization, or the existence thereof. -Itai 14:17, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)

If you see how it's published in Tolkien's work, it's Gil-galad. Alcarillo 16:39, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Reincarnation of Gil-galad 2 Wrong 3 Ñoldorin inheritance law 4 Possible copyright violation? 5 The Image

[edit] Reincarnation of Gil-galad

Gil-galad was slain during the Last Alliance and was reincarnated some time in the Third Age. I seem to remember a quote from Tolkien discusing the possible philosophical ramafications of this, can anyone advise where to find this?

It sounds like you are thinking of Glorfindel. As far as I know, there is no indication that Gil-galad reappeared in Middle-earth after his death at the end of the Second Age. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 14:53, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong

There are several fact errors in this article, first of all: Gil-Galad were son of Fingon son of Fingolfin.

Placing Gil-galad as son of Fingon in the published book is an admitted error by Christopher Tolkien, who edited the Silmarillion under high pressure. I advise you to read the Unfinished Tales, and the History of Middle-earth series: also by Christopher Tolkien, but much better researched. J.R.R. Tolkien's final intent was to have Gil-galad be Orodreth's son. Jordi·✆ 21:46, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have read it, and I know about the argument. But when there is so much controversy I find it wrong to joust present one version of the history. This is a long and theoretical discussion that only the hard core of Tolkien fans would enjoy, and therefore unsuited for this article. And therefore I think the version which puts Ereinion Gil-Galad as the son of Fingon is the most appropriate, since this is the most widely accepted theory, and what the widely accepted and well known Silmarillion proclaims as an absolute truth. If you wish, I would be more than happy to take a more in-depth discussion about this. User:Glortelion 19:03, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Have you read this article? The popular theory that Gil-galad (small second 'g' by the way) is Fingon's son is mentioned. Links to why the Wikipedia has taken Christopher Tolkien's later admissions that it was a mistake into account are also provided. Jordi·✆ 22:20, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I don't entirely follow you when you say "there is so much controversy". The question of Gil-galad's parentage is ambiguous, yes, and if your point is simply that the article shouldn't be quite so firm in claiming that his father was Orodreth you may have a point: Christopher Tolkien makes it clear that his father changed his mind on this point repeatedly, and the existing writings aren't fully consistent with any choice. But that's not "controversy", that's well understood (and unresolvable) scholarly uncertainty. What is unambiguously clear from Christopher's comments is that "Gil-galad son of Fingon" isn't even in the running. Again, this isn't controversy, this is a simple correction by the guy who actually studied the manuscripts and edited the book. If you'd like to advocate a different "Middle-earth canon" policy than what Wikipedia currently has, feel free to discuss it on that article's talk page. I think, though, that the community is reasonably happy with what we've got. (And on another note, of course we don't "just present one version of the history": the whole point of the "Other versions of the legendarium" section is to mention other variants and explain why the article makes the choices it does.)--Steuard 16:49, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Being Fingon's parentage the most widely accepted 'fact', i think it would be the "official" fact. By now, most authorized resources cite Fingon as Gil-galad as Fingon's son. And, by the way, the Unfinished Tales cite Fingon as Gil-galad's father as well.

Now, if a healthy neutrality would be achieved - the best option, i think - it may be wiser NOT to cite a Gil-galad's certain father but to comment about the controversy, taking into account the fact of it being an unsolvable matter.--Mornatur Ormacil 14:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry - you can't have it both ways - they can't both be his father and just because lots of people believe he is Fingon's son doesn't make it right!! At the end of the day Gil-galad CANNOT be the son of Fingon - firstly we know that Fingon was unmarried - or at least he had no partner in Middle Earth. Secondly, Gil-galad DEFINITELY inherited the High Kingship on the death of Turgon, not on the death of Fingon - so he can't be Fingon's son. Rob Feb 2006.

[edit] Ñoldorin inheritance law

Was Galadriel passed over in favor of Gil-galad because she was female, or because Gil-galad, as the grandson of her elder brother Angrod, had priority? I think the latter, as in theory Ñoldorin men and women were equal and the Ñoldor practiced some form of primogeniture rather than seniority (as seen when the kingship passed to Maedhros rather than his uncle Fingolfin).

There is considerable debate about exactly how Noldorin inheritance law functioned... even the Noldor had quite a disagreement about it in the stories. It isn't clear that Maedhros ever did inherit over Fingolfin... that was the view espoused by Feanor (eldest son of eldest son), but an alternate view held that the eldest surviving male heir (Fingolfin) would gain the title... which Maedhros referenced when he deferred to Fingolfin. As to Galadriel - she was passed over. Why that was so is uncertain because JRRT never spelled out the EXACT details of Noldorin inheritance. --CBDunkerson 13:22, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

A reason that Galadriel was passed over could have been that she married into a Sindarin house; her husband Celeborn was a kinsman of Thingol of Doriath. I would also reference her mother being half Sindar, but that is irrelevant if we accept that Gil-galad is her nephew.

I would like to add here that Galadriel's mother was certainly not a Sindar. She was from Aman thus a Lindar(alternate name for Teleri) Elf known as Teleri of Alqualonde or Falmari. The two groups are closely related but are not the same. They separated during the 'Sundering of Elves' and one group of Teleri remained waiting for Thingol later becomng Sindar(Grey folk) and one followed Thingol's brother over the sea. Afrika 02:10, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Jon- What's going on here: regardless of whether Gil-galad's father was Orodreth or Fingon, Orodreth is Angrod's elder brother, not his son...

Not according to the real Silmarillion. The published book is wrong in this as in many other accounts due to a) insufficient research and b) over-enthousiastic editing. -- Jordi·✆ 19:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible copyright violation?

An anonymous user at 70.181.69.136 recently added some text to this article that appears to be taken from this site. This may be a violation of the site's copyright, unless the anon is the copyright holder. I've reverted it for now, and if the anon is the copyright holder he or she can restore the text. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Image

The image says that its from peter jackson's fellowship of the ring. I've seen that movie several times and do not recognize the image at all. Its possible that I just have bad memory but its more likely that its from unused footage, in which case we need to specify that and add some source data to the image. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 05:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

You can see Gil-galad in those clothes in the intro sequence of the first movie during Galadriel's speech. I am not sure if it also occurs in the theatrical version as I only own the extended cuts. -- Jordi·✆ 19:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Gil-galad, wielding Aeglos, can be seen clearly in the theatrical version. It appears for a few more seconds in the Extended version.--Mornatur Ormacil 14:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)