Talk:Gideon Levy

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Contents 1 Proponent of binationalism? 2 Does Gideon Levy self-identify as a post-zionist? 3 Ha'Aretz articles 4 link to www.hirhome.com

[edit] Proponent of binationalism?

Is Gideon Levy a proponent of a binational solution? I read his name in another Wikipedia suggesting that but it wasn't conclusive and no sources were cited. If someone can determine this positively then it would be appropriate to apply this new category: Category:Binational solution proponents. --Deodar 14:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does Gideon Levy self-identify as a post-zionist?

In the Post-Zionism article someone has listed Gideon Levy as a post-Zionist. There was no source listed. There is now a category for post zionists here Category:Post-Zionists. If someone finds a source for this, can you please add the category and describe him as such in the body of the article? Thanks. --Deodar 14:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ha'Aretz articles

I have removed from the article the sentence that states "In 2006 his articles about the 2006 Israel-Lebanon War had such titles like the "IDF's war on children" and "The crime of looking a bit too Arab"?"

I can find no article by Levy to which he gave the title "IDF's war on children". This seems to be a (hidden) tag placed by the website From Occupied Palestine on Levy's article originally titled Twighlight zone / Suffer the little children, published in Ha'aretz on 2 December 2004. Levy was not responsible for this tag on the article, which in any case was published in 2004, not 2006.

Levy did indeed write an article titled The crime of looking a bit too Arab. This was actually published on 2 July 2000, not in 2006.

This poorly-written and researched comment is clearly designed to slur Levy -- though I see nothing unacceptable in either title. The editor did not even provide links to the texts, so that readers could read what Levy actually wrote.

I have also replaced the request, removed by Amuroso, for citations for the assertions about the Fatah affiliations of Levy's translators, and that his reports do not reflect Palestinian society accurately. It is not enough to write "Some of his critics say", and these allegations are not borne out -- nor even repeated -- in the letter to the editor and publisher by Irit Linur. In any case, this letter took a scatter-gun approach, denouncing virtually every Ha'Aretz writer and ending with the thinly-veiled threat "Have a nice day, look after your children, and don't sit in a restaurant without a bodyguard". It was a settling of scores by a former leftist moving rapidly to the right, and should be read with this understanding. --RolandR 14:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

From what I can see, I think you got it wrong. First of all it's not our job to make Gideon Levy "look good". If it's a critic we should leave it probably without messing with it. More importantly, the response you brought did not concern the allegation at all. It seems Linur is blaming Gideon Levy for being an anti zionist and a "member of Fatah" and other allegations. What was cited in the article was on the other a very specific allegation concerning the translations from Arabic and this was not addressed at all by the response. It seems logical too that this would be the only allegation brought in the article since it's something more serious that just a political bias allegation which might not belong in the article. Therefore that addition needs to be removed.

The previous anonymous comment misses the point. Linur's remarks were part of a fierce attack on Ha'Aretz as a whole. She did not pick out Levy, and made no suggestion that he was an anti-Zionist or a member of Fatah. In this case, the response of the paper's owner and publisher, and his expression of confidence in Levy and his writing, is surely valid and important. So I have restored the remarks. There is a poor translation of Linur's original letter at [2], but I don't think Schocken's response has been translated, so non-Hebrew speakers may see part of what I am arguing about, and don't need to take it all on trust. --RolandR 01:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

She specifically attacks Levy as being a ravid anti zionist, and also some others. But this does not appear in the article. The only thing quoted from the article to here is her allegation concerning the translations from Arabic, which is a very valid concern. Usually Mizrachaniam that is people that are familar with the Arab issues or Arab conflict know Arabic extremely well. This is indeed a concern. The response did not address that at all. It's a response explaining that "it's ok to be a "leftist" because it's "ok" to be concerned for other people's lives - it's not only unencyclopedic here it's not interesting. Obviously he'll be attacked for his views which are regardfed as post zionist or anti zionist to many. But this is an allegation regarding his standards, not his views. And thus the response has no relevance whatsoever. I agree that it's not the article's concern to make Levy look good here. It's a valid critic here and it needs not be discredited by something not relevant. The response here is not relevant. And yet it said "in reponse" but it's not, it's response to her attack on his and his collegaue anti zionism, not of the allegation of the shoddy work. Therefore, we don't want to add all the discussion between them but we'll just add this info which is also factually correct - he isn't familar with Arabic the way Yehud Yaari and relevant speakers on the subject are. It's a valid concern. Cheers. Amoruso 01:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

It is not true that Linur "specifically attacks Levy as being a rabid anti zionist". Please quote the article, Amoruso, don't use your own unverifiable paraphrase. RolandR 01:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

let's quote then:

When Gideon Levy is blaming Israel for turning Maruan Barguti from a peace lover to an entrepreneur of suicide attacks – That is to be a logic interpretation as much it is logic to claim that the Spetember 11th attacks are plot of the Mossad. In a private chat with him, He told me once that he wouldn't go 100 meters for saving the life of a settler and it seems to me that his love and his hate are slander for to much time his touching reports from the occupied Palestinian territories. Also, and maybe I shouldn't mention that , All his career is infected with shoddy work, Cause he is one of the only reportes in the world for Arabs matters who doesn't know Arabic, doesn't understand Arabic and doesn't read Arabic. They translate to him simultaneously and it's O.K for him. In my concern it's amateurish press.

Gideon Levy and Amira Hess are the owners of the 'Palestinian department' in HaAretz. Although I recognize in the importents of the reports from the Palestinian territories, I have a problem with your commentary. For the concern of Levy and Hess, Israel will always be blame for the Palestinian suffering and also for the Palestinian murderousness. This is a superficial and a narrow minded commentary, defective from a journalist and moral points of view.

Also, They both are preventing to report about horror acts that the Palestinians are doing to each other and it is surprising that they don't meet other Palestinians: The Anti semites, The Chauvinists, The Corrupt, The ones who clapping their hands whenever there are attacks on Israelis. When the tendencies of Levy and Hess are only Pro Palestinians – I find it hard to attribute credibility to their articles. And because I'm, I beg your pardon, A Zionist, I don't like to enter in times of war to my house, every morning, the thunder voice from Cairo.

But all that is not what we're quoting and it's of no concern - we're quoting this : All his career is infected with shoddy work, Cause he is one of the only reportes in the world for Arabs matters who doesn't know Arabic, doesn't understand Arabic and doesn't read Arabic. They translate to him simultaneously and it's O.K for him. In my concern it's amateurish press. Amoruso 02:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. As I noted, it's a poor translation. But it's good enough to show that the article does not claim, as you stated that it did, that Levy is a "rabid anti-Zionist", that he is "a spokesman for Fatah", or that his translators "are affiliated to Fatah". You simple invented this, presumably in the hope that most readers would be unable themselves to check the original. Which is why I posted a link to this poor translation (by someone who agrees with Linur), so that people could judge who was telling the truth about its content.--RolandR 19:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Please remain civil. I did not invent anything, Irit Linur conveys exactly what I said and I think it's obvious for anyone to see. It's also irrelevant for what you're trying to add to the article of course. See straw-man - the wikipedia article doesn't claim she thinks he's anti zionist if that bothers you, it only claims that he doesn't speak arabic, and there's no response for that claim hence you realise why we won't quote something irrelevant. Amoruso 19:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] link to www.hirhome.com

I removed this link because it is a personal website of an unnotable individual. The fact that he was interviewed once on FOX-NEWS about being fired from the University of Pennsylvania hardly makes him any bit more notable, surely you must be joking. This guy built a big website to host his personal political views about everything, anybody can do that.--Doron 07:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It's valid criticism and it's not a personal web-site. There's no grounds for its omission. I'd agree with you if this was a blog of a nobody but this person seems to be very very notable : Francisco Gil-White, therefore his criticism is valid here, it's really is a research and criticism, and not just something random. We need to maintain it for NPOV reasons. Cheers, Amoruso 19:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The fact that his Wikipedia article didn't get deleted doesn't make his opinion on Gideon Levy worth mentioning.

1. His expertise, as you must have read in his article (which I assume you've read), is Biological and Cultural Anthropology, which has nothing to do with criticism of Israeli journalists. His opinion of Gideon Levy is as good as anyone's.

2. Unlike your marginally citable Shmuel Katz, this stuff you're citing now hasn't been published by anyone. Nobody thinks his opinion of Gideon Levy is worth publishing, no scientific journal, no book publisher, no newspaper, so he posts it on his private website. My teenage sister and her friends do this all the time, it's called writing a blog (only I admit this guy's blog is a lot fancier). You're really grasping at straws now, if that's the best you can get against Gideon Levy, probably one of the most provocative journalists in Israel.

Tell you what. I got a few papers published in Computer Science. How about I set up a website where I post my opinion about all sorts of things and start adding links to it all over Wikipedia. I'm sure if I try hard enough, I can get interviewed on Fox News, if that's going to make me OK to cite by you. Or are you tolerant to such meager credentials only for right-wingers? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doron (talk • contribs).

Francisco Gil-White only has a wikipedia article because he created it himself. His website is just a long rant that he wrote himself and it is way way below the Wikipedia horizon. --Zero^talk 20:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)