Talk:Ghost in the Shell

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Contents

[edit] Link

Ghost_in_the_Shell:_Stand_Alone_Complex has been linked. Please review! :-)

Why was the Stand Alone Complex (concept) article expunged and redirect here?
20:37, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Kusanagi's name

Is Major Kusanagi's name related to the sword Kusanagi of Japanese mythology? I know so little of Japanese culture that I can't even tell if they're pronounced the same. --Andrew 05:15, Apr 14, 2004 (UTC)

They are pronounced the same but I don't know about any connection. As a matter of fact, Kusanagi is one of somehow common names in Japan. Kusanagi Tsuyoshi is for example a famous actor and singer. -- Taku 05:19, Apr 14, 2004 (UTC)

So it could be a coincidence, then. But somehow with this author I wonder; after all, he named himself after a sword and he writes page after page of footnote. Thanks, though, I didn't know it was a common name. --Andrew 10:20, Apr 14, 2004 (UTC)

the sword

you can compare the kanji

According to Japanese mythology the Kusanagi Sword was one of the treasures possessed by the imperial family of Japan. It is said that the warrior who brandished it could beat a whole army. --Neuromancien 00:14, 2004 May 25 (UTC)

[edit] copyright violation?

http://www.tvave.com/CartoonNetwork-G/Ghost_in_the_Shell.php

This website has large portions of this article on it without any sources citing Wikipedia. Isn't that against Wikipedia policy? MisterCheese 04:59, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I've seen things like this before. There are at least 2 sites I know of that reproduced the Pigs Is Pigs (1937) article I originally created here a year ago. -- Jason Palpatine 09:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
What do we do about it though? I'm a bit reluctant to send an e-mail like it says to do in case of this. MisterCheese 18:37, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] soundtrack

Well, it's a classical soundtrack, so that's not exactly everyday, I'm sure people notice that :-P You can't remove a bit of information just because you happen not to have noticed yourself of course. What you can do perhaps is rephrase and add "the soundtrack was in a classical style, and written by ..." etc. But really, NPOVing needn't be taken to extremes. :) Kim Bruning 07:15, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The information was duplicated below in the section on the anime; I didn't feel it needed to be in both spots, but will leave it. -- Ian Maxwell 16:16, 2004 Aug 12 (UTC)


[edit] reviews

I'm not sure these really belong on the page, precisely because they're uniformly positive. If someone could find a negative review, it should probably be included; otherwise they should probably all be removed. -- Ian Maxwell, 2004 Aug 14, 00:51 (UTC)

I agree. It is just wikipedia is not like other fun sites. Is there any convention in wikipedia regarding reviews? -- Taku 01:01, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
one negative aspect of this page is that it hails ghost in the shell as if it was a groundbreaking philosophical movie, in a generous way: it was, but in many other ways it was just another overly hyped anime (not saying that it was a bad movie here, but...). The movie suffers from many manga stereotypes, such as the introduction of a world of slutty women, starting with our slutty main character. In the world of manga, where every girl goes proudly to skimpy-skirts high school for the slutty student, it is not new to see yet another movie with these characteristics. Other things that it shared from several other animes was the violent aspect of it, almost pornographicly violent (yup, its a manga alright), whenever there was a slight chance for showing naked girls and/or violence, the movie felt the duty of exploiting it to the maximum, leave very little importance to whatever story there was in it. speaking of that, the story was clustered in one small drop, as it happends in many manga-to-anime movies (as in akira, where you had to re-watch the movie again for many aspects that where briefly explained, mainly because most of the movie time was spent on violent scenes rather than in triying to give any mayor importance to the plot, i recall several characters that were showned diying in gruesome violent ways at the end, and all i had was one question in my head "who the hell were they?"), and last, and very importantly, Ghost in the Shell was in no ways the first "philosophical" sci-fi movie, the first one was Blade Runner in questioning what it meant to be human (to some lesser degree, 2001 could be considered the very first, although from here to there, one must wonder if 2001 could be considered sci-fi). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.28.199.4 (talk • contribs) .
I could say many things, but I shall limit myself to the following:
  1. Motoko Kusanagi loses what one might call her "sluttiness" as one goes from manga to movie to TV. Her lesbian interlude in the manga gets cut in the English translation (and in the French too, surprisingly enough), "toned down" into a cyberbrain drug trip. Why drugs are more acceptable than sex—and violence more acceptable than both—I don't pretend to know. The first time the manga is adapted (for the 1995 movie), Motoko becomes a loner. She stays that way through two seasons of Stand Alone Complex, though she clearly has a past with a couple young women and, by episode 25, some tension with Batou. Nothing consummated on screen, though—just her sharing memories with the Laughing Man! By the time we get to GiTS 2: Innocence, well—if anyone can actually get off watching the Hadaly sexroids, you're a better horny Freudian than I am.
  2. Metropolis (1927), The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), Forbidden Planet (1956), Dr. Strangelove (1964) and Truffaut's Fahrenheit 451 (1966) all have philosophical content people still talk about. If we include television series, the original Star Trek (first aired 1966) and The Prisoner (1967) certainly count. Each one of these includes computers and/or robots which display some living characteristics. Moreover, Metropolis features a human mind being copied into a robotic body (Maria into Futura); The Prisoner shows Number Six's mind connected to a computer and even copied into another man's body; and in Star Trek, Spock mind-melds with the Nomad space probe (among many examples I could give). All of these works (or "texts", if you're a postmodernist) examine and blur the distinctions among humans, robots and aliens—even Fahrenheit 451, if you consider humans "roboticized" by their desires for simplistic, orderly lives.
  3. 2001: A Space Odyssey is not "sci-fi". The ugly coinage "sci-fi" properly refers to trashy material confused with true science fiction, which is abbreviated SF. Yes, I am being a pedant, and quite possibly a crusty and outdated one too. See if I care. 2001 is SF, mystical and rapturous, alternating between darkness and sunshine.
Cheers, Anville 21:10, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

It's ok to be a pedant, but it's not ok to be a bad pedant. SF = Sci-Fi = Science fiction. You are imagining that "SF" is a special, superior category of fiction, somehow differentiated from the unworthy "sci-fi", when they are simply synonyms.

Can you elaborate about why 2001 is not "just" sci-fi? Mystical alien obelisks with supernatural powers sounds like bog-standard science fiction to me.

Asteroceras 12:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philosophy

The article states that people in Gits have scientifically verified the existance of the soul. I question this. It seems to me that the term Ghost is always used rather vaguely. Is it possible that "Ghost" is a physical phenominum that they have named "ghost"?

jm: Ghost vs. Soul -- This is problematic in a translated work. I'll try to identify the key passages, and have a japanese friend of mine take a look at the original to see if my interpretation of the translation matches.

For example, a Ghost could be a neural network or digital simulation running a certain way? This would account for a "ghost hack", the detection of the "ghost" in the puppet master, and the fact that the Tachikomas in Stand Alone live but do not have a "Ghost"

By the end of Stand Alone's first season, doesn't Motoko state that the Tachikomas have begun to develop ghosts, or some sort of collective conscience? Kawa 18:44, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I think ghost refers to the consciousness created by the neural network, not the neural network itself. Neural network is neural network. Computer can be a neural network too. It's a mystery still at this age, how our consciousness "occurs". Anyway in the book and the anime, the term is not well-defined so we don't really know what it is... In a way, ghost refers to the mystery of mind. Don't you ever wonder why you're yourself? --Nc622 16:57, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

jm: That was the central revelation of the manga: that the puppet master was the first AI to to have a ghost/soul -- making him a living organism, rather than just an elaborate construct.

Though its hard to grasp the matter, I think that the intention of the Stand Along Complex writers is to allow for the Ghost to be a completly physical phenominum with related spiritual beliefs. jm: I agree. Shirow is deliberately ambiguous. In other words, when they say Ghost, they mean both physical/ and or spiritual. They mean, potentially, more than 1 thing at the same time. I found a reference to this once on the Internet, I can search for this latter if anyone wants.

Question: Do we know Motoko's camuflage influenced the creation of real life ones, or is it cooincidence?68.42.24.89 22:42, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

GiTS is explicitly referenced by the scientists who made the "camouflage" (it's actually just a clever projector, and only works for 1 point of view, but still ;-) ). Kim Bruning 08:03, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi. Nice to meet you guys. About the term ghost, it was inspired by Arthur Koestler's book The Ghost in the Machine [1]. Here's a Japanese page; it says Shirow said he got the term from the book. [2] The concept of ghost was first used by a British philosopher, Gilbert Ryle, in his paper mocking the paradox of spirit-matter dualism. Shouldn't we add this to the text? --Nc622 18:26, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Excellent research. If you'd like to add that to the text just go ahead and do so. If it isn't perfect it'll be cleaned up quick enough! ;-) Have a nice day! Kim Bruning 23:26, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank you Kim. I'm working on the addition but it doesn't fit right after the current paragraph. I think the definition of "ghost" should be clarified first.--Nc622 16:57, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

How about:
Make a link to Ghost (Gilbert Ryle) ("redlink it"), and pretend it already existed. You can fill in the new article later :-)
Kim Bruning 18:15, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I kinda changed the paragraph to fit with mine. Didn't change the whole thing. There is a link to Gilbert Ryle, although it doesn't mention about ghost. Umm.. I don't think the addition is good enough; I believe it's got some useful material but the explanation needs rephrasing or improvement. --Nc622 14:13, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Excellent start! :-) Kim Bruning 14:36, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In English we have several words for the loose collection of concepts clustered around the self. We make a stark divide between the MIND, the rational, abstract part of us with which we think, and the SOUL, a more metaphysical life essence with religious associations.

This distinction is does not continue across language barriers. In German, the word GEIST (ghost) can be used interchangeably for either of these concepts, and to Germans, the distinction made in English can seem somewhat unnatural.

Perhaps Koestler's term draws on the extension of the German term. He was after all, famously, a multi-linguist. This term GEIST, is probably more suitably vague than any of our words, MIND or SOUL, and it is probably the best assessment of the extension of the word GHOST in its usage in Ghost in the Shell.

An etymology of the term might be appropriate too. There is a lineage of terms, all of which feed into the terms we have today. In ancient greek we have NOUS (intellect or reason or mind, and, for plato, the rational part of the soul) and PSYCHE (animating breath, which is used often for a soul, or enduring essential spirit).In Latin, these two distinct concepts were covered by one word: MENS, and this word is used by Saint Augustine in his meditations, which is, incidentally, the work from which is drawn the uncited quote at the end of Ghost in the Shell. "When I was a child..."

With reference to the suggestion that Hegel's GEIST might be connected: Hegel's use of the term GEIST is different from the German vernacular usage. For Hegel, all of reality is GEIST, the word comes to represent the religious, artistic and philosophical reality of an entire culture, which evolves in stages. Commonly, GEIST, in Hegel's work, is translated as UNIVERSAL MIND, and stands for a collective consiousness, running through these three spheres of religion, art and philosophy. For Hegel, GEIST is everything, and is more OUT THERE, than IN HERE, which is what, I think, Ghost in the Shell's GEIST is all about. I would think that the vernacular use of the word is more relevant than Hegel's usage.

So I don't think Hegel's GEIST is related, but I do think GEIST is probably the most relevant origin of the GHOST in Ghost in the Shell.

-SABRETACHE

I have a question regarding the movie adaptation of Ghost in the Shell. It is explicitly stated in the making-of feature on my DVD release of Ghost in the Shell that the movie takes place in Hong Kong, which confuses me since I've always thought Project 2501 was developed by the nation of Japan and that both Section 6 and Section 9 originated from that same country. Could someone clarify this to me? --81.226.162.222 13:59, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In the manga it's clear that Section 6 and Section 9 are part of the Japanese government. Shirow notes that this is inspired by the British system (e.g. MI5 and MI6) because Japan doesn't currently have any similar agencies. I'm don't see why they would change the setting to Hong Kong in the movie, given that HK is part of China, but I'd have to watch the movie again to make sure. - mako 15:13, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The manga and SAC are based in Newport City, Japan. However, the movies are based in Newport City which appears to be or be in Hong Kong, or possibly in China; I recall that this was "to disorient" Japanese viewers (I do not have a reference for this, I will have a look).

Additionally, the government system was based on the UK system: Prime Minister, Home Secretary, Foreign Minister, etc. This is stated in Shirow's notes in the GITS manga.

Asteroceras 13:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

In Ghost in the Shell, Major completely reproduces her stimulus of her entire organs including internal organs to maintain her ghost. In case of a technical transferring of a ghost from one body to another, the attempt normally results in failure since the ghost tends to deteriorate due to either the difference of system at the material level or the deficiency of the transferring protocol. The Puppet Master manages not to deteriorate its ghost when merging with Major because his system is the body of information itself, thereby avoiding a deterioration due to the deficiency at material level.

When in Ghost in the shell did she transfer her ghost from one body to another? In the series she never transfered her ghost to anyone. She did have multiple bodies but she transfered her cyber-brain case (holds brain and spinal cord) to another one of her bodies. She even remotely controlled a couple bodies. In the SAC series in episode 1 someone transfered to a different body using this method. I don't remember her ever transfering her ghost anywhere. We actually really never see the process but since thats the given method for transfering to different bodies I assume its the correct way.

Is it really neccessary to refer to ghost hacking as an of yet fictional activity? I found it distracting and pointless, it's assumed that fictional thing can become real eventually...

Philsophical discussion relating to GITS: SAC ep 15 "Time of the Machines – MACHINES DÉSIRANTES"

'Machines dèsirantes' ('desiring machines') is philosophical term developed by French philosophers Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari in their work Anti-Oedipus. In the second volume to Anti-Oedipus, A Thousand Plateaus, they use the terms 'agencement' and 'dispotif' which are translated into English as 'assemblage' instead of 'desiring machines'. The original term had too much of an unintended subjective interpretation. 'Assemblage' is a particular configuration of heterogeneous elements that exist in relation with each other with a certain consistency.

In episode 15 one of the tachikoma units (number 1 below) is holding a copy of Anti-Oedipus and says to other units:

1: ...the problem is that we're too close to being human. It's because the line that separates human from robot has already become a few minor differences of the physical body. Stop and think why our 'bodies without organs' are not made to look human. 2: Efficiency as weapons, maybe? 1: That's part of it, but the more important reason is that if we were humanoid our users would overempathize with us in a weird way. I think we'd be hated even more if we were humanoid."

"Body without organs" is another key concept in Anti-Oedipus. In another Deleuze and Guattari text, What is Philosophy?, they use the term "plane of immanence" instead. The 'body without organs' is a particular space that has not yet been potentialised (or what Deleuze and Guattari call 'territorialization') as having a set of 'organs' that would populate the space in a particular configuration. In Anti-Oedipus, Deleuze and Guattari argue against the psychoanalytic territorialization of the desiring machines of bodies. Instead they suggest getting back to the 'body without organs' or, better yet, attempting to construct one anew through deterritorialisation. The point here is that instead of being constituted through the connections enabled by the 'desiring machines' into which we are socialised (Deleuze and Guattari call this 'Oedipalisation'), they attempt to outline how we can reconnect in creative and experimental ways. The elaborate methodological technique for understanding the machinic dimension of a body they call 'schizoanalysis'.

A body as such is a certain form of assemblage, it is determined by connections and flows and stoppages enabled by the desiring machines with which it is connected. The use of an organic oil in one of the tachikoma units has been used as a plot device by the creators of GITS: SAC as a way to indicate a change in the assemblage of which the individual tachikoma units were part (which includes the oil, other section 9 members, socio-technical infrastructure, and the all the tachikomas). The initial state of the tachikomas to be non-human is nothing other than an attempt to maintain an empathetic distinction between human and non-human, and non-human as 'tool'. This is a recurring theme throughout GITS. The tachikomas have a specific 'technological Oedipalisation', that is, a programmatic attempt to constitute the flows of information and oil through connections sanctioned through protocol by the authoritative elements of the assemblage of which they are part, i.e. the humans.

In an interview, Deleuze once said that he and Guattari attempted to create a pop-philosophy, which they thought they had failed. Yet, with this appearance of some of their concepts not only literally in one episode, but concepts which resonate throughout the whole GITS world, it is apparent that their pop-philosophy has had some success.

Glen fuller 12:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think it's supposed to be ambigious too, but don't you wonder why it happens after the Tachikoma has the Natural Oil? Like the proteins and stuff from that helped to evolve or whatever?

[edit] camouflage

Hello. I couldn't help but notice that Kusanagi's camouflage technology is called 'thermoptic'. This technology appears word-to-word in the PC game Deus Ex: an item called 'thermoptic camo' makes the player become invisible to the human eye as well as cameras and robots. I was just wondering if anybody's heard the term appear elsewhere (i.e. is it a common phrase in sci-fi/cyberpunk) or could it be listed as GITS's influence on Deus Ex?

  • As far as I know it's just 2 words combined to form a new one to describe the combination. Thermoptic camo seems to be just one of them. The original word originates from Japanese so it might come from whoever translated it. I Don't think it's worth any further mention though, with a succes like GitS ideas and words are bound to pop up in other works. --Jimius 15:29, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
  • It could get a mention as an evolution of the technology in Neuromancer. The Panter Modern's Mimetic Polycarbon suits are a generation behind, but that's the likely influence.
  • The character named Gunther Hermann has an eye augmentation that closely resembles Batou's: metallic ring with lens where the eye used to be. And there's a street thug whose design is very much like that of the thug at the beginning of the movie (the one Batou chases through the market). (Or maybe I'm just pushing it...)


Well helo there ;)

No you are not pushing it. Deus Ex and GiTS have quite a few things in comon actually. The likes of Hermann and Ana Navare have their bodies augmented (metalic limbs and organs that enhance the capability of the host), such as legs, hands, eyes,.. but their brains are "untuched" in a way they are only humans with "normal" robotic "output" so to speak. Denton (the main cracther in the game) is also aougmented but on a much higher level as compared to Hermann. Denton has nanobots inside of him, functions of those nanobots can be enhanced with upgrade modules that are more or less nothing than a nanoDNA code. There fore he looks just like the major on the outside and can do more or less everything as dose the major exept for ghost hacking, but he can hack into terminals and the net. There is also a AI program in the Deus Ex that has gained selfawernes by "merging" with another AI ( 2 Echelon sistems called Dedalus and Icarus ) that calls him self Helios. Towards end of the game u find out that Denton din't came to world by natural birth but was artificaly incepted and "modified" in the lab. Anyway the main antagonist in the game Bob Page uses the same tehnology that was used to "make" Denton to transform him self into pure information, data or however u wish to call it and thus beeing able to merge himself with the AI. Purpose of merging is diff than that in the GiTS off course. But none the less as you can see there r quite a number of conection points between the Deus EX game and GiTS. Denton like major questions his origins, merging with an AI, hacking to the net, aougmented body of Denton and a cayborg body of major. And affter merging with an AI both give rise two new entity

JC Denton ;)

[edit] Manga

The Ghost in the Shell template links to the manga article at Ghost in the Shell (manga), which previously was a red link, but which I've changed to redirect here. Should this page be moved to Ghost in the Shell (manga) instead? There are many pages that link to this article, Ghost in the Shell, but many (perhaps most) are supposed to be links to the article about the movie, Ghost in the Shell (film). Would it be better if Ghost in the Shell were a disambiguation page? Steve McKinney 08:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the above, switching the two article titles. I was searching for the film article, and it was rather hard to find, and I got to this article, which I thought initially as an article on GITS in general. However, it's focused more on the manga itself and I thought it would be better if this article presented information common to all the adaptation of GITS such as recurring themes, and it would be better to move manga plotlines into the Ghost in the Shell (manga) article. What do you guys think? Boneheadmx 04:33, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
This article is indeed shaping up as a "GitS general topics" sort of thing. I agree that it would be good to flesh out a Ghost in the Shell (manga) article and then change the focus of this main article to reflect its general nature. - mako 05:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
In that case, I will add in a little blurb in the beginning of the article that goes something like this: "This article covers general topics in Ghost in the Shell. For the manga, go to Ghost in the Shell (manga). For the films, go to Ghost in the Shell (film) and Innocence: Ghost in the Shell...etc." Or I could direct people to the template which covers the different releases of GITS. In any case, I already made the manga article a stub, so people can start working on it. Boneheadmx 06:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Split off manga specific info

The manga specific info should be split off to Ghost in the Shell (manga) and use this as a fictional universe overview page, which can discuss the similarity and differences between the films, manga, and tv anime. 70.51.11.121 06:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with splitting. In my opinion, it's a bit confusing when all three (manga, anime and the "universe") are mixed up in one article. The films and the manga aren't even directly related (in sense that the plots would go together), which also supports splitting it up.(The split has already been made it seems, but I think we ought to try keep it this way instead of merging the manga page into the main article. A rewrite is needed tho, to clearly separate the two.) Pasi 00:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Considering the amount of content that's been written/posted on GIS, I also agree with the split btw the manga & fictional universe here and the film(s) off on its own with a disambiguation page. Makes perfect sense. Wonder if anyone disagrees? My 2c. 2KT 08 June 2006
I doubt anyone who knows the series would disagree. The manga, the movies, and the TV series all seem to exist as their own entities. I suppose the comics and movies might have continuity, but the show is definitely it's own alternate timeline, where Motoko didn't fuse with the Puppetmaster. Luna Santin 11:51, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I would certainly agree with the above. In its current form the article is rather unwieldly and. It might even be dvisable to split off the section on ghosts, as that applies equaly to all three incarnations. Go for the diambiguation and split. Mr. Pants 15:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music Section

I don't think the music section is appropriate for this article. I propose moving them to their respective animes. What do you guys think? Boneheadmx 21:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Anville 21:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Agree. The Rod 21:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I have moved the information on the music to their respective media. Boneheadmx 02:50, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks. Anville 07:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation?

I agree that separate articles are warranted, but we should not create a disambiguation page. Priority should be given to the movie that popularized the franchise, and separate articles should be maintained for the manga, sequel, and TV series.

[edit] GITS mess

from Talk:Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex:

Wait, what the hell is all this? I don't know who did what, but this is a freaking mess. Look at that nav template, holy crap man. And why are things being listed as 1st and 3rd Gig, when only "2nd Gig" was used as a name? It doesn't matter what one article was originally for or what, this whole mess needs to be restructured and re-evaluated. For starters, no articles with fan-names like 1st and 3rd Gig. Second, original SAC and 2nd Gig should be merged back to here, split sections off as needed, but not like this This... is just so sloppy.... Third, that nav template... is too big.....
Don't anyone go freaking out just yet. No one is going to be doing something that will look stupid, in any case. Get some ideas for article structure and so on. This is a damn good anime and it deserves better than this. -- Ned Scott 08:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
*cough* sorry for the harsh reaction, but it was quite a shock ;) -- Ned Scott 09:30, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright, running through the template and such, this is all the GTIS stuff on Wikipedia right now (excluding the images, of course):

Main

Manga

Anime

Anime movie

Novels

Video Games

Organizations

Characters

Locations

Misc.

Categories

Templates

I'm thinking mostly just the anime and intro articles need working on, but I haven't looked at everything yet. A lot of splitting and merging and all that has been happening, and it's just time we clean house, that's all. Right now, look around, get some ideas of how to structure everything better. We'll agree on things and plan things out, so no one has to worry about any rash action for now. -- Ned Scott 09:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The characters (most small articles or stubs) are in my list of character articles that need to be merged. I may be bold with them.. --Kunzite 14:17, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I've Prod'ed Ghost in the Shell (anime film series) and Ghost in the Shell (video game) (disambiguation), and put merge notices on Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (1st GiG), Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C. 2nd GIG, and Ghost in the Shell: Tachikoma Days to be merged to Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Also, merged Cyberbrain Sclerosis to Cyberbrain. -- Ned Scott 11:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't combining all the SAC articles into one article lead to a 20-page long mess? They're already quite long as they are... Dark Shikari 21:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, that would be a very dumb idea. Thankfully no one has suggested that. -- Ned Scott 03:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Note: There's another article to consider... Stand Alone Complex. 132.205.95.25 20:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seburo Merge Proposal

Kunzite has suggested that the Seburo article be merged with the Ghost in the Shell article. I am against this merge as the fictional company is used in just about all of Shirow's works, not just GITS. --YoungFreud 06:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok. hmm. I hadn't realized that. Well, that removes merging to GITS as an option. How does this article assert notability? There are no citations. It could be merged to Shirow's article. --Kunzite 06:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Time to break out the Intron Depot, Appleseed, and other books out. Heck, we don't even have an article on Posieden Industrial for christ sakes!! Besides, this merger idea is a stupid idea because it's an essential part of several "universes" in Shirows works.--293.xx.xxx.xx 07:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It is also become a part of other universes as well. Second Life for one, the gaming mod community for another. It COULD be merged to Shirow, but I think the Seburo name is actually more notable outside of Shirow's universe. --Mdwyer 18:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Film series

The film series should have a dedicated article overviewing the two current films, at Ghost in the Shell (anime film series). Currently it is a dab page... one that Ned Scott wants to delete. 70.51.10.123 05:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

ok, why? Other movie articles are not set up this way. If you want an overview then use Ghost in the Shell, which should be an overview of the whole Ghost in the Shell series. -- Ned Scott 18:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Some other movie series are set up that way. An overview article on the continuity, and linkages between the movies in the series. Individual articles focus on the series. There is an entire category for these types of articles: Category:Film series ; a good example would be : Final Destination series or The Chronicles of Narnia (film series) or Critters (film series) or Subspecies series - 70.51.11.34 05:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Incase you haven't noticed.. but we have two articles that can do that, Ghost in the Shell and Ghost in the Shell (disambiguation). Personally I feel that Ghost in the Shell (disambiguation) should be deleted and the task handled by Ghost in the Shell alone as an "overview". Also, the film disambig page is about to be deleted per the AfD.. -- Ned Scott 08:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Yep, it got deleted, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ghost in the Shell (anime film series). -- Ned Scott 06:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
We should have an overview article, not just a dab page. It would be an article on the film continuity, as we have an article on the TV continuity. There should also be an article on the manga continuity. Each of these continuities are distinct and different. The GitS article should be a general overview of everything. More specific overviews would go into the sub articles. Each article (manga, film, TV series) would get their own articles. 70.51.8.73 04:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
The DAB page is easy to read, so as not to cause excess aggravation for people looking for a quick link to their preferred article. 70.51.8.73 05:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] delete locations category

NOTE: I've CfD'd Category:Ghost in the Shell locations - 132.205.45.148 19:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Vote at: Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_20#Category:Ghost in the Shell locations

[edit] De-ghosting

Could somebody tell me where the de-ghosting stuff is mentioned? I've read all the comics and seen all the movies/tv-episodes, but I don't remember it ever coming up. It's not exactly unthinkable that I would have missed it, of course, there's a lot going on. I'm just curious. risk 13:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Memory

I find this section confusing. Is it suggesting that the 'external memory' mentioned in the anime refers to the physical objects the cyborgs keep to remind them of their humanity (eg. kusanagi's watch)? In the second movie Togusa and Batou both exchange philosophical quotes from their 'external memories', which would seem to imply that the phrase refers to a type of data storage implant in the brain, and not the redundant artefacts the cyborgs like to keep.

[edit] Impact and influence section

I think as the impact and influence section mostly deals with the 1995 Ghost in the Shell (film) (the Matrix influences et all), this portion should be instead moved to the 1995 film's own article, instead of this article. If there aren't any objections, I think it should be moved as soon as possible. ~ Ganryuu 04:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Eventually, this article itself should be just a starting point for all the other GITS articles, anyways -- Ned Scott 04:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I think this section compares lots of unsimilar things between ghost in the shell and the matrix, should be removed or shortened.

[edit] cyberbrain merge

I don't think the cyberbrain article should be merged into the main GITS article. While it is a central concept, It can easily grow beyond just GITS. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 05:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the topic of the Cyberbrain is a complicated enough subject thet it should be kept separate, it will very easily grow to become a much larger article. Ben W Bell talk 14:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I too believe that the cyberbrain should remain standing on its own, and I've removed the merge template as there has been no dissenting comment here in the past 1.5 months. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Batou/Bateau's name

According to Talk:Batou#Bateau and User:Shame On You's subsequent [edit], Batou's name is more correctly spelled Bateau in English. Some googling confirmed that the "Bateau" spelling is fairly common and present in some DVD sleeves. Based on this, I moved the article to Buttetsu Bateau and changed the spelling where I could find it. User:Ben W Bell and I discussed this on our talk pages here and here. He points out that Batou is more common and used on [Production IG's official site]. We need to pick one or the other, but be consistent. Kundor 20:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it does indeed appear that both versions of the spelling in English are indeed used. The original GitS film on English release does state Bateau in the end credits (but Batou in the subtitles), as does the US release of one of the soundtracks. Doing some searches does indeed reveal that the spelling is indeed used quite a bit on the internet, often in the case of film and DVD reviews that I can see, but also on some fan sites. The other spelling, Batou is also very common, is the spelling used in the Official Logs for the TV series, is the spelling used in the TV series and is the spelling used on Production IG's official site, as Kundor has pointed out above. Straightforward Google counts show Batou is found more frequently than Bateau, but we all know Google counts aren't the be all and end all of fact finding and can be skewed quite easily. So I recommended we have a discussion, try and pull in as many people as possible and come up with an agreement as to which one we should use (while also mentioning the other is a common alternative spelling as well). People's thoughts? Cases? Opinions? Ben W Bell talk 10:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, I went in and changed the spelling to Batou on pages having anything to do with the TV show. Not the movies, books, or manga. My justification being the ending credits of both seasons DVDs spell it as Batou, not Bateau. Just trying to be consistent with the DVDs. I figure if anyone knew the correct spelling, the production company would...--Salvax T - C--21:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The name Batou is now official and the Buttetsu_Bateau article was redirected to Batou.User:Shame On You was blocked for extreme and gross violations of our WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA policies.--Neuromancien 07:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
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