Talk:Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence

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[edit] Quotes relating to "Innocence & Life"

I found these quotes (Mamoru Oshii is know to be concern by religious implications since his earlier age)

"Innocence is life untested, but virtue is innocence tested and triumphant" in WH Griffith Thomas, Hebrews: A Devotional Commentary, found at [1]

He learned obedience in the sense that He learned to obey His father's will as a human. For Jesus, God's will involved suffering (cf. Phil. 2:6-8). "Innocence is life untested, but virtue is innocence tested and triumphant." note 153

"Innocence was lost and conscience was born"

Another quote related to Adam and Eve in W. H. Griffith Thomas, The Book of Genesis.

Actually, it's from Walvoord, if you'd care to follow the annotation.

"And banished from man's life his happiest life,Simplicity and spotless innocence!" Paradise Lost, by John Milton

These quotes were a bit problematic, since it's an encyclopedia and all and shouldn't just spout quotes for the atmosphere; we need to retain a neutral point of view. I left in the first quote from the list, and took out the second. Additionally, I'm a bit concerned about the number of quotes by Oshii included in this article. It should probably be reduced a bit, but I'm not sure there. -- towo 15:09, 2004 Jun 25 (UTC)


Just fine Towo the article was a first 'jet' and you do a good "revamp" ;-)

The movie is so full of quotes i mean it is really a part of Oshii work... --Neuromancien 09:26, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Prob. you could put in a "Directors take" or something like that and instead of quoting Oshii, you could summarize what he says? -- Aparajit 06:15, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] removed link

Removed this link while editing. I can't read japanese, can anyone tell me if it's useful? http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~medaka/diary-innocence.html . Kim Bruning 07:26, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

some original comments and references but hard to translate (babel) --Neuromancien 23:07, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
This is a review by a movie afficionado and I don't think it's suitable to be linked. Revth 02:53, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Correct title

Often, the title seems to be given as "Ghost In The Shell: Innocence", "Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence" or even just "Innocence" - in fact, "Innocence: Ghost in the Shell" seems to be the least-used form of title. IMDB entry, for example. I know this is being a bit picky, but it would be good if we could figure out which is the best title to put the article under.

In any case, I've set up several redirects in the meantime, since someone could use any of the names - plus a disambiguation page for "Ghost in the Shell 2", which a lot of people seem to call it. (No disambiguation for "Innocence", though.) I'm not 100% sure these are entirely neccesary, but they should all help people find this entry more easily. - makomk 13:13, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Official Website says Innocence: Ghost in the Shell 2. -- towo 14:50, 2004 Oct 13 (UTC)
Actually, when I looked at the website, the sidebar said "Innocence: Ghost in the Shell 2", but there was an article at the bottom of the page referring to "Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence". Can't they make their minds up? (Also, poster) -- makomk 08:13, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Well, then I don't see any reason that we use unofficial name while there is one indisputed official title. (I mean, in some cases, there are more then one official titlte and this is probably not the case for this movie.) -- Taku 17:28, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)
Both the video itself and the film site just give イノセンス it might be worth mentioning. The sub/sur title is just clarifying the relationship and disambiguation. --zippedmartin 21:26, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The correct name would be Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence, would it not? That's how movie titles work ... main title number: subtitle. I think the whole "Innocence: Ghost in the Shell 2" thing is just a mistranslation that, for whatever reason, is still around. --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 12:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

  • If no comments are received within a little while I shall be bold and effect the changes. --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 18:44, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I support the change, for what it's worth. Anville 22:20, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
official page says Innocence ... GITS2 came later as a promotional title for the US market ... but if you really feel it is better so do it  ;-) --Neuromancien 07:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The official title of the movie IS Innocence:Ghost in the Shell. This is the title on original press materials, and the title the film was entered into the Cannes Film Festival under. The confusion about the title started when Dreamworks decided to rename the movie Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence for its release in the USA. The title should be changed back to Innocence: Ghost in the Shell for the Wikipedia page, as that is the film's original English title.

[edit] Third Law of Robotics

I changed what the article said about the movie literally quoting Isaac Asimov's Third Law of Robotics. I don't know Japanese nearly well enough to tell how close the translation was, but the subtitles on my copy say that "Moral Code #3" is "Maintain existence without harming humans." Allowing for variations in translation, English to Japanese and back again, this still sounds like it leaves out a chunk of the Law, i.e., obeying the orders of human beings. It's a clear reference, all right, but not a literal quotation.

Babelfish humor:

  • English: A robot must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
  • Japanese: ロボットはそのような保護が最初または第2 法律と対立しない限り自身の存在を保護しなければならない。
  • Back into English: If as for the robot that kind of protection is not opposed first or 2nd law, you must protect itself existence.

The Japanese Wikipedia article on the Three Laws translates the Third Law as "ロボットは、前掲第一条および第二条に反するおそれのないかぎり、自己をまもらなければならない。". (They provide the original English phrasing too.) Running this back through Babelfish produces "If as for the robot, the aforementioned Ichijo or there is no possibility of opposing to second provision, oneself must be protected."

And gosh, don't I feel cyberpunk scrolling past pages of kana! If only I could make them show up green on a black background.... Anville 11:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Please extend the plot summary

I know it is only suppossed to be a summary, but the film is quite complicated and I would like to really get to understand it. For one, why and who hacked Batusa? What is the relation between the hacker Kim and Locus? Why did the dolls in the end also attack the security guards?Cgonzalezdelhoyo 04:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I second that. The plot summary way to short, please expand it. -yongke, 20 Aug 2006

¡¡¡SPOILERS AHEAD!!! Batou is hacked by Locus Solus in order to take him away from the case. Kim worked for Locus Solus. The dolls attack the security guards because they were programmed to revolt if there was an attempt to invade the boat, in order to call attention from the world outside.Necrotranson 19:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DVD Controversy

"After receiving numerous complaints, DreamWorks released a statement saying that unsatisfied customers could exchange their DVDs for properly subtitled ones, postage paid; and that version 4 already had the proper subtitling."

The link takes you to an error page. And I don't know what version Amazon is selling (I can't find that on the box or disc), but it still has only the closed caption option.

Somebody told me that the version number is on the spine of the DVD case...is this true? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 04:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
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