Talk:Ghost Dance

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[edit] older entries

Isn't the actual religious movement also with a capital D? If so, that should be here and the novel moved to Ghost Dance (novel). Tuf-Kat

The oggfile link should be removed if no one is planning to direct it to somewhere... I'd like to hear the song, though:) Sigg3.net

Fixed. Tuf-Kat 17:49, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

this article has two articles in it which need to be merged, and the section on the book needs to be split off. Badanedwa 22:23, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

Novel moved to Ghost Dance (novel). --Rosenzweig 18:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In edits made on 20 Jan 2005, I removed the link to Cargo cult because, although the Ghost Dance is similiar to many other religious movements, it does not resemble a cargo cult in any way. Also, I removed an external link to a peyote page because the Ghost Dance is not related to any such substance. CPret 22:37, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cult?

My AP US History book "The American Pageant" called the Ghost Dance movement a "cult." Should I make note of that in the article of bias opinions about this movement? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.103.35.155 (talk • contribs) .

If it's relevant, cite the title, author, publisher, etc. You might include a quote to show context, and maybe something about exactly what the authors mean by 'cult,' and why that's important. Tom Harrison Talk 02:04, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name of the Ghost Dance

Many members of my family are planning on participating in the revival of the "Ghost Dance" this coming May. One correction I'd like to float out there is that the true name of what's called the "Ghost Dance" be recognized. I noticed there's a section calling it the Natdia, but the name I'm most familiar with is Na'a Nugga, a Paiute word. Also, if there's no objection, I'd like to add to the article by recognizing the ceremony taking place in May on the Walker River Reservation, where Wovoka is buried. Bubbagove 20:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Drastic Changes

I've made comsiderable changes to this article unfortunately erasing ample amounts of previous work. I feel the article is stronger for it but don't want to step on anyone's toes. Any input would be greatly appreciated and I encourage everyone to compare the current article with the previous versions. Tuna027 20:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I've made my own revisions, and I still think this article could use a MASSIVE overhaul. More sources would be nice, as those cited seem to come primarily from one author and are frequently inaccurate. There are many passages that read like a love-note to the movement, or at the very least like an evengelical tractate. Also, while the following section is one of the few genuinely accurate and historically fascinating passages, I'm not entirely certain of its relevance to the topic at hand:
Big Foot, a Sioux leader on the U.S. Army’s list of troublemaking Indians, was stopped while en route to convene with the remaining Sioux chiefs. U.S. Army officers forced him and his people to relocate to a small camp close to the Pine Ridge Agency so that the soldiers could be more closely watch the old chief. That evening, December 28th, the small band of Sioux erected their tipis on the banks of Wounded Knee Creek. The following day during an attempt by the officers to collect any remaining weapons from the band, one young Sioux warrior refused to relinquish his arms. A struggle followed in which his weapon discharged into the air. Other young Sioux warriors, dressed in their Ghost Shirts, responded by brandishing previously concealed weapons; the U.S. forces responded with carbine firearms. Two bands of Native American reinforcements, the Oglalas and Brules, arrived at the creek after hearing the gunshots. When the fighting had concluded, 39 U.S. soldiers lay dead amongst the 153 dead Sioux, 62 of which were women and children.[1] / Following the massacre, chief Kicking Bear official surrendered his weapon to General Nelson A. Miles. Outrage in the Eastern United States emerged as the general population learned about the events that had transpired. The U.S. government had insisted on numerous occasions that the Native American had already been successfully pacified, and many Americans felt the U.S. Army actions were harsh; some related the massacre at Wounded Knee Creek to the "ungentlemanly act of kicking a man when he is already down." Public uproar played a role in the reinstatement of the previous treaty’s terms including full rations and more monetary compensation for lands taken away.
The mention of the Ghost Shirt seems like the only relevant point. That passage would, in my mind, fit better in an article discussing the history of Native American and U.S. relations, or in a historical article dedicated to the history of the Sioux. Also the section on Anthropological perspecitives needs some NPOV attention and expansion. --Awakeandalive1, 7 June, 2006

The relevance of the preceding passage is that it is the culminating moment of the movement; it launched the Ghost Dance into the national spotlight. The reason why I covered this brief period of history so specifically is because its differences with the original movement. I felt that was something that needed to be clear because so many other accounts of the religion miss it. However, if others feel the same way I wouldn’t contest to shortening the section on the religion’s involvement in the Wounded Knee massacre. I have found other accounts of Jack Wilson’s life that argue against Tavibo being Jack’s father, but I went with what I thought was the more creditable source. Maybe the dispute should be included in the article. Please point out any discrepancies you have found after comparing my info with that from other sources, I would like to look into it. Tuna027 05:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The entire section is informative, but aside from the refence to the Ghost Shirts there aren't any apparent connections to the Ghost Dance in the text. If you could expand upon the role of the movement in the Wounded Knee massacre then it might seem more relevant. As to the apparent descrepancies, the one that stood out most clearly to me was the assertion about Mormons and their belief in a Messiah returning in 1890; the author may have conflated them with the adventist preacher William Miller and the Millerites, or one of the similar movements. --Awakeandalive1, 8 June 2006.

[edit] GA nomination promoted

I have reviewed the article in regards to its Good Article nomination. I have to say it is very close. I will not fail the article just yet, unless someone else wants to, I think it can be fixed up to standards relatively quickly and then I can consider it again.

  • The article had a severe lack of Wikilinks for key terms. I have added quite a lot myself, but I think it might still need a bit more.
  • Some terms are used without much clarification. And since there were no Wikilinks I found myself on google trying to figure out some specifics, I have Wikilinked where I could, but I don't think I covered everything myself.
  • This is one example, but check for others: the term Tövusi-dökadö is described in the first half of the article, but later on it is used again without clarification and I could not recollect seeing that term before. Since it is not Wikilinked (and in fact has no Wikipedia article) it was not too clear what was meant.
  • The country where the history took place was not mentioned in this article at all! Of course it is easy to figure out that it is USA, but this is an international encyclopedia, not an American encyclopedia, and this needs to be mentioned specifically.
  • Some local place names need to be clarified. From this article I can't tell where is Pine Ridge for instance. I have tried to look it up myself and I found that there was a good bunch of them!

I hope these issues can be sorted out. Let me know when they are.--Konstable 14:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Added the elements required. granted the GA. Lincher 01:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It is important to remember the Prophecy of Wovoka. The Ghost Dance was to call upon the guidance, protection, and power of the ancestors. This is not a new concept to indigenous cultures. The Ghost Shirt as well is not a new concept as a invocation of protection by warriors and followers of the Ghost Dance during the conflict with the white invaders at that time. One must remember that the Prophecy includes just as importantly, the vision of Wovoka that in 7 generations those who danced the Ghost Dance would be reborn to revive, empower, and some say avenge the Red Nations. There is corollation to the Lakota prophecy of the White Buffalo calves, and the Hopi Prophecies. One elder native elder visionary/seer has stated that blood quantum and tribal membership is secondary to being native at this time, the time of the 7th generation. Those who have been born and born again on this continent carry the capacity to fulfill the Prophecy. This is only knowable to those who have received the vision. This may be to enigmatic and not academic enough for some, but is central to understanding what the vision was that Wovoka was sharing. It is also important to bringing into comtemporary understanding and realization of the vision. Istaqa

[edit] Picture of Cyperus

 It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

I'd like a picture of those Cyperus bulbs. --84.20.17.84 09:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Railway

From what I remember of Bury my heart, the millennial version believed by the Sioux said that a layer of grassland would cover the land burying the white and the ancestors would return in railways. This is barely mentioned in the article, but since it's in a good state (kudos!) I didn't want to mess with half-remembrances. --84.20.17.84 09:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dance

What about some description of the dance itself? --84.20.17.84 09:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dancing horse

One powerful passage of Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee says that, when some Indian chief (Sitting Bull?) died, his horse started to do his tricks (it was actually a gift from Buffalo Bill), what was interpreted as Ghost-Dancing by the horse. Is it notable enough? Can you check the reference? --84.20.17.84 10:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

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