Talk:German National People's Party

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National Socialisist parties as rightwing is not Nuetral it is NPOV.

Nationalism or state socialism is not rightwing. It is socialism, because it requires supreme devotion to the state as supreme concern and focus of all citizens. The citizen serves the state and promotes the states interest. It is not the state promoting the concern, protection, interests and individual liberties of the citizens. It is anti-communism, because it allows capitalism and personal ownership of property or capital, as long as the companies and individuals do what the state tells them to do with the capital or property, like oscar Schindler. He snuck behind the Nazi's backs to help the Jews, so he wouldn't lose his property. Socialism isn't just the state ownership of capital; it is the state control of all capital. If it were just the state ownership of all capital, then it would be Communism. They hated communists because the communists wanted to have the state own all capital. The National socialists just wanted to control everything, that way they wouldn't be responsible for all the upkeep of capital, they could have the companies and individuals do that. Plus, it is easier to play policeman(or macro-manage)over private owners[national socialism], than to try to fully control(micro-manage) every action of the people running state owned property[communism]. Socialism is: n. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or run by a centralized government that controls the economy. state socialism: n. < stAt 'sO[sh]&"liz&m > : 1. An economic system in which the government owns most means of production but some degree of private capitalism is allowed. -neutral nobody

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:National_Socialist_German_Workers_Party"

But this party wasn't a national socialist party, was it? It was a conservative nationalist party, somehow archetypical of the term right-wing. --Soman 07:03, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

It wasn't called that in its's title, but read down a little further and it mentions that it is an extreme nationalist party, which demands complete loyalty to the state i.e. national socialism. It says they worked with Hitler's party. You are parsing words and playing games.

If you want to keep the npov-tag, you have to make an argument that hold some ground on factual basis. Can you seriously claim a) that DNVP wasn't a nationalist conservative party, b) that DNVP didn't enter into cooperation with NSDAP in its latter stage of existance? I took away the wording extreme, if that was what was bothering you. --Soman 08:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

There is a legitimate dispute over this article not being neutral, quit being disruptive by removing the NPOV template. It should stay so others know ther is a debate over it. (Neutral nobody 08:00, 10 November 2005 (UTC))

Using "left" or "right" as categories in politics is always problematic, as the content of these epithets differs from time to time and country to country. (One of course might argue about including left and right at all). The definition given above ("Nationalism or state socialism is not rightwing. It is socialism ...") is taken from current political discourse in the US, though even there is too one-dimensional. Hence transferring these American definitions to the Germany of the 1920s is wrong. Calling even the Nazis a left wing party is nonsense, as they were clearly located on the right under the 1920s German political spectrum. You may argue about "socialist", but one shouldn't judge a party by its name alone. Anyway, while these considerations might have some validity in regard to the NSDAP, it is completely nonsensical in regard to the DNVP, the heir of the conservative parties of the Kaiserreich. Str1977 09:12, 10 November 2005 (UTC) ___________________________________________________

Yes, in my view the commentary that seeks to equate Nazism with socialism or describe it as a variety of state socialism of the Soviet or even Western European welfare state variety is a cop-out cranked out by respectable conservatives and aimed at naive people of polite society in prosperous Western countries who know little about the conditions of extreme crisis that existed in Germany and Europe in the interwar period. Yes, Nazism, like the New Deal, imposed certain social programs and state oversight of business, but this was in situation where a laissez faire solution was going nowhere except towards more instability-with the prospect of Bolshevik like revolution being immanent. Thus Nazism, like the New Deal, was a political device and vehicle instituted by the capitalist class to salvage its interests in this situation. The difference is that Nazism-a fascistic and gangsterite regime of militaristic rule-pandered to traditional bigotries, was fundamentally anti-communist and jingoistically militarist and was completely opposed to the existence of an independent labor movement.

Hitler himself in various speeches derided this facile comparison pointing out that it is was well known that Nazis stood for the "total annihilation of Marxism," adding that patriotic business owners had nothing to fear from his party and that the confiscatory language in the Party program was directed at Jewish and treasonous elements only. The chapter "Struggle with the Red Front" in Mein Kampf gives some insight into this with Hitler's description of the traditional conservative politicians as inept intellectual clowns.

It also bears pointing out that the Nazis-and a broad section of German public opinion going beyond them-felt that preparation for a major war, a rematch of the Great War to redeem Germany, was a proper and immediate national objective, a context within which only the most myopic and utopian of conservative ideologues would not admit required regulation, oversight and yes, concessions by business, that might not be appropriate in another context. Moreover, Adolf Hilter is not someone to be trivialized by psychobabble, but was rather more than any mere seasoned thug, a world class political gangster and militatist who was an overachiever in infamy.