Talk:Gavin Newsom

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Contents 1 Assess 2 2004 Weddings 3 Questionable Links 4 Sofia 5 What's with the bullet points? 6 What's with the removal of his affairs? 7 Heading Edit War 8 Neutrality disputed tag

[edit] Assess

Article lacks depth on accomplishments and status of sf during his term. Also topics are vry brief to be of broad use to readers. Anlace 15:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2004 Weddings

I changed "married" to "issued marriage license". Some same-sex couples had there ceremony by city officials in city hall, some did not. Even today, same-sex couples can have ceremonies in city hall. What they cannot get, regardless of who performs the cermony, is a marriage license.--DaveOinSF 03:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable Links

Okay, fine, in the sake of being 'fair' (which is silly considering the guy has 80% approval ratings, an amazing achievement in an extremely democratic and liberal city that disects and re-disects every politician on an almost daily basis...), Do we HAVE to have TWO 'negative' links about him? If we have to keep them to be 'fair' could we at least find two positive ones? Otherwise I just don't see the point of keeping these links which try to smear him as someone who is electioneering his way into office. The links don't really even mention Gonzales who was actual opponent, so how relevant are they?

[edit] Sofia

Does her nationality REALLY matter THAT much when the page is about Gavin Newsom? (unsigned)

[edit] What's with the bullet points?

Why was this article re-written using all bullet points? It is more difficult to read and looks amateurish. The article was perfectly fine in its previous format. Can we please restore it to the original version? CagedRage 17:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's with the removal of his affairs?

They are relevant to his current situation (mentioned in current articles about the Tourk controversy), were covered in major news media (thus meeting WP:BLP and WP:RS), and created controversy relative to his elected position (i.e. Scientology and the city of San Francisco, and the efforts to remove Scientology-sponsored Narconon for San Francisco schools at the time of his relationship with Milos, a Scientology member; condoning underage drinking with Mountz). Therefore, I have reverted the removal. These quotes have also been in the article before and were removed, and I think we need to gather consensus before removing them again. Calwatch 22:40, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

First, they're not "affiars," since he wasn't married at the time. Second, they didn't create controversy. Dating a scientologist isn't controvesial. Dating a young woman isn't controversial. This is a biography -- stick to the main points. Griot 23:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. They were newsworthy at the time and caused controversy (see above). This is not going to turn into an edit war, but I would like to hear other comments before continuing. Calwatch 23:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I would too. I don't want Wikipedia to become something resembling a gossip sheet. Griot 23:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think affairs are a big issue in my assessment of a candidate, but if he runs for office again, the issue of having having had an affair with a married woman and betraying the trust of his campaign advisor will obviously become a huge character issue in any future campaigns, so they should be included. I think it amounts to bias NOT to include references to the issue. On the other hand, discussion of an affair clearly shouldn't overshadow his political achievements. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gfanslow (talk • contribs) 06:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

I have to agree. It's no slight on Mr Newsom's considerable political achievements to recognize a moral failing in the same person. It happens. But the goal of the article should be to give a complete picture, to the greatest degree possible. Omitting a substantial matter such as betraying the trust of a close confidant would be a disservice to anyone interested in the man. 69.243.221.227 00:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heading Edit War

Griot, is there any chance of you and Hoponpop69 agreeing on a heading for the affairs topic? Zimbardo Cookie Experiment 05:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Go back to editions of this article dating to last summer. The title has always been "personal life." I think Hopalong's title is bulky and hard to understand. Griot 05:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Just because it was called "personal life" several months ago doesn't mean we should keep it that way. The latest revelations about Newsom's life are not just about sex -- they deal with the fact that he betrayed a good friend, and that he had sex with a subordinate who was married to another one of his subordinates (which may or may not constitute sexual harassment -- even consensual relationships between a boss and an employee can turn into harassment after a while.) Secondly, the alcohol abuse scandal calls into serious question Newsom's commitment to his job as Mayor. These revelations are completely different from the Mayor's various girlfriends (scientologists, 19-year-olds, etc.), which I agree could be set aside as purely a "personal" matter. paulhogarth 22:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Last summer was before the affair was public news, so of course the heading would be different then. The section covers two things his first marriage, and the affair and subsequent revelation of alcoholism. I'd be willing to work on a compromise title, but I feel the title needs to mention the affair.Hoponpop69 17:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I object to "Rippey-Tourk affair" in this heading. It makes it sound as though this is a household name or an instance from history, like the XYZ affair. I've attempted a compromise. Hope you like it. Griot 18:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The "Controversies" heading seems eminently fair to me. In fact, I'm really puzzled by the neutrality-disputed scare tag there. The paragraph is pure reporting, as far as I can tell. I appreciate an attempt to end the revert war! Zimbardo Cookie Experiment 19:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, maybe we should stick the gay wedding stuff in that section? Zimbardo Cookie Experiment 19:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Because then you'd have to put "Care not cash" in as well. I think the same-sex wedding stuff belong under Social Policy. Griot 19:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm fine with this new heading. The only thing is I added the word "personal" in front of controversies as to disambiguate it from political controversies, such as the same sex weddings, which someone mentioned earlier. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hoponpop69 (talk • contribs) 23:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

Sheesh. After all this we go from "Personal Life" to "Personal Controversies." Moving molehills here. Griot 00:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Just because one word is changed, doesn't mean it was a small change.

Actually, I prefer "Rippey-Tourk affair" as this section only deals with that situation, not to the divorce, Brittanie Mountz, Sofia Milos, or any of the notable incidents that were reported in mainstream media about Newsom. Calwatch 17:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality disputed tag

For the record, this is what the "neutrality is disputed tag" is referencing:

In December 2001, Newsom married Kimberly Guilfoyle, a former San Francisco prosecutor and legal commentator for Court TV, CNN, and MSNBC, and who now hosts The Lineup on Fox News Channel. On January 7, 2005, the couple jointly filed for divorce, citing "difficulties due to their careers on opposite coasts." The couple had no children.

After the divorce, Newsom was linked to various women, including actress Sofia Milos ^[1] and model Brittanie Mountz ^[2], who was photographed drinking wine with Newsom while under the legal age to drink alcohol.

On January 31, 2007, Newsom's campaign manager and former deputy chief of staff^[3] Alex Tourk, resigned after he confronted the mayor about a sexual affair Newsom had with Tourk's wife, Ruby Rippey-Tourk. The affair happened in late 2005 as Newsom was going through a divorce from Guilfoyle, and while Rippey-Tourk worked in Newsom's office^[4]as the mayor's "appointment secretary." ^[5] Newsom confirmed the affair at a news conference on February 1, 2007. "I hurt someone I care deeply about, Alex Tourk, his friends and family, and that is something that I have to live with and something that I am deeply sorry for." ^[6][7][8]

Until I get some consensus from some more users about adding the other cited affairs in, the neutrality disputed tag stays. (I am alleging an unfair positive bias to Newsom, by omitting notable incidents of his life that were reported in mainstream media.) Calwatch 17:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the word "affair," with its many seamy connotations, is inflammatory and unfair to Newsom. Wikipedia isn't a tabloid -- a rag that reports on people's "affairs." Futhermore, I believe you are misusing the "disputed" tag. 71.139.27.85 23:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Please explain how I am misusing the disputed tag. POV is POV, whether it is positive or negative. The personal lives of politicians are notable, especially when reported in mainstream media, and not in supermarket tabloids (like for celebrities). I will object to the tag's removal until I have a few other people other than Griot and IP addresses making a consensus that these "issues" (how's that for neutrality) or not relevant in understanding Newsom as a person. Calwatch 03:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Where's the POV? There's no POV here. The question is what to title this section -- or am I missing something? I agree that "affair" doesn't belong in this title. I'd also like to see people who care about this topic and post often about SF and SF political figures weigh in, rather than people who just show up because Newsom is in the news. Griot 21:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, this goes all the way back to when I slapped the disputed tag in the first place, when you deleted the paragraphs above. POV can be introduced by not reporting things, too. Calwatch 03:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I second the motion as per the POV as many things are not in the article that should be. Including the resignation of his press secretary "peter". I will elaborate at length later on. PEACETalkAbout 05:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The entry for John_F_Kennedy also remarks about "extramarital dalliances". If anything, the section on Rippey-Tourk could be distilled down to a sentence or two that states unbiased fact.Dautermann 06:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)