Talk:Gary, Indiana/Archive 1
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NPOV
Gee, I guess the general rule is that one can take a racist vacation from NPOV.
This article describes current conditions in Gary which can change and thus is not a proper and NPOV article on this basis alone. It "naturalizes" conditions and FAILS to discuss properly the history of Gary or how people struggle in Gary in a positive fashion to improve their conditions.
It would be one thing if the article described how systematic business practices caused disinvestment in Gary but then the NPOV cops would indeed descend.
Real sweet pictures, too. Did the photographer even think about the people who have to live there?
There is a true objectivity with an escapably moral component of simple decency and fairness. But this article is an example of "white" objectivity in which the norm is assumed to be white and thus advantaged with access to capital.
EITHER an article about Gary will take systematic racism as a historical fact OR it will display, as does this article, a nasty bias.
Gary not as bad as what would be indicated
Both my wife and I grew up in Gary, and the photo that is noted as being on the "West Side" is not indicative of the "average" home on the west side of town.
Gary has had it's share of problems. I'll be the first to note that. It is not the same town as it was when I came up in the 70s. When I graduated high school in 1980, Gary's downtown was dying. Today, there are many vacant lots where older buildings have been torn down. But at the same time there is new development beginning to happen here and there. The new baseball stadium (The US Steel Yard) is there. Other developments are taking place, albeit slowly.
It is certainly not the cesspool that this article's author and photographer portrays.
- Edited/rewrote portions of this article to reflect a Wikipedia-conforming neutral point of view. Anthony Dean 06:11, May 29, 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you. Michael King 16:45, June 2, 2005 (ET)
- You're welcome. Anthony Dean 02:33, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
Gary today
I've lived in Lake county Indiana for 5 years (Griffith) and can honestly say 2 things about Gary,
1. In the five years I've lived here I do see improvements at a snails pace, nevertheless there are positive changes.
2. It's the most economically depressed area I've ever seen in the US.
It would be no great loss if US Steel folded up and went away now. There are only 6000 or so people who work there (compared to 30,000 in it's heyday) and the damage is done. The US is well past the industrial revolution faze of it's existence and thus Gary has got to let go of the mill. The best hope of Gary right now is the airport. Even that is met with opposition by the rail road that blocks the expansion of the needed runway lengthening. Gary is an ideal place for Chicago land’s third airport simply because of it's location relevant to O'Hare and Midway and it's location in respect to the Loop and it's relatively low traffic volume compared to the other two airports.
Some parts of Gary are as bad as the pictures. Do not be fooled by these people who say otherwise, it is what it is (2005). This area is completely devastated and has not recovered for nearly 30 years. I know some people have rewritten the article to reflect what was, but this is now, and the area is as bad as I've ever seen an area. There are improvements, and the biggest improvement is the demolition right now.
The great hope is that with the tax reassessment here in Lake county, there is no way for the old shelled out buildings to remain. If the owners can't be found to pay the tax or can not afford the tax then they are annexed. This is a great move in order to bring prosperity back to Gary. It's been under an Urban enterprise zone much too long. The only thing that did is delay the inevitable which is what is going on right now. Demolition, demolition, demolition. This is the current improvement going on in Gary right now. The demolition of the old shelled out buildings. The issue is that there must be replacement building put in after the demolitions.
I saw Boston's waterfront before they started their project so I know what can be accomplished. Gary is going through the same thing some Chicago neighborhoods have gone through but it is much worse because of the utter depression brought on by the dependence on one industry (steel) to carry the area. It's been a hard lesson but there is an old saying that goes along with it-Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Manufacturing will never be back (like it or not they all went off shore to Asia and will never return) and service industries or technology must be enticed to the area.
It wouldn't surprise me if in 15 years Gary was completely unrecognizable for the better.
Stephen L. Noe
- Though Gary may not be the best place in the US, Gary is not a hopeless city. Go to http://www.gary.in.us/visitgary.asp and it really does have some attractions, but the city may just be trying to increase tourism. There are also redevelopment and support organizations helping Gary (http://www.gechezone.com/ for example). — Stevey7788 (talk) 05:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Blacks intimidated Whites
Okay, Okay! The "Blacks" sent the terrified "Whites" scurrying away in panic. Say whatever you wish, no matter how far-fetched it is to do so. I have been hearing that "niggers are taking over America" (or that "niggers are ruining America") since the late 1940s. TooPotato 17:20, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
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Not Race but Resource issues drive people away.
Hmnnn... "Blacks send terrified Whites scurrying away"... No sociological basis to that. The facts of society are that when the jobs dry up the educated move to where the jobs are, leaving the uneducated behind. That statement is not meant as a shot or crack at anybody or any race because it happens to black, white, hispanic and oriental alike.
When prosperity and jobs dry up, people move on. People that do not have the resources to move on are left behind. This very fact was displayed in New Orleans when hurricane Katrina hit. The resource rich people got up and got out and the resource poor were left behind. Resources are either; having an education or money. It leaves the poor and uneducated in an area that do not have resources to maintain it.
That is Gary, Indiana in a nutshell. It is/was unmaintained, not because the people didn't want to, more because they didn't have the resources to do it.
The notion of Black and White being different is a myth. The reality is that if you're black or white and you have resources, you don't stay in an area that can't provide a good job and you don't stay in an area that is not well maintained.
Stephen L. Noe
Homicide History
I think for a city like Gary, a Homicide History table is appropriate. Gary is often listed as the city with the highest homicide rate per capita. A table showing the number throughout its recent history is useful.
If you feel there is a good reason to keep it off, post it here. If not, I will put it back in a couple days.
The same thing is not posted for other cities that arguably have high murder rates (Detroit, Newark, New Orleans, Los Angeles); why is it appropriate in Gary? Mhking 23:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe they should be posted for those cities, and Gary had the highest homicide rate in the US for 2005. It has earned that distinction many years. It took back its claim as "murder capital" from NewOrleans Kalmia 07:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Signatures on comments
Why is that the majority of comments posted on this page are not signed? More specifically, why is it that the unsigned comments also happen to be extreme, prejudicial, opinionated, or simply not carefully thought out or well written? The discussion page is for honest and intelligent discussion of the subject matter---not simply an editorial forum for what we think or believe to be true. Let's deal honestly with the facts, ladies and gentlemen, even if said facts are ugly, unfortunate, or regrettable.--Theoldanarchist 03:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Airport expansion
The statement that "most agree that an airport in Gary would be the best solution" is clearly biased. I reworked the paragraph so that now it lists the advantages of expansion in a relatively neutral manner. But NPOV dictates that the article also list some disadvantages. Does anyone know any? Fishal 04:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
What extreme comments are you referring to?
Time zones
I removed the material about Indiana not observing daylight-saving time. It's no longer true as of 2006. I also removed the part about northwest Indiana being the only area on CST6CDT; the southwestern portion of the state has been on CST6CDT in the past and is today.
Look up
First of all being semi-new to WIkipedia I had not yet discovered the discussion page on articles and as is most do not even have discussions
Though now that I have discovered them I feel I should say something
I have lived in my downtown Gary entire life
I won't lie compared to any city currently in Northwest Indiana Gary is at the bottom of the barrel
I have heard many people compare it to the worst neighborhoods in New York and to be honest that has been true in the past.
Growing up I saw a drug bust nearly everyday on my block. When the state police came almost annually to take over the city they always had a helicopter circling my area. My home has multiple bullet holes and many have been shot in front of my house.
My parents took me out of public school at a young age to avoid the problems. Friends I had in school were not allowed to come to my house because it was in Gary.
That was the truth, yeah.... then...
Crime has dramatically decreased throughout my life time I have not seen a bust for years. There is much less of this as it is moving to the subburbs.
I must say that that was the past now Gary is more bark than bite. Gary has very bad stigma because of it’s past but as is, it is people that hold on to the past that keep Gary from changing; you have to let things change not declare that they are terrible.
Gary is not so much a city of crime and death but a city that is Dead. Nobody wants to let it change no matter how hard Mayors have tried.
There are NEW Sports Teams, NEW Schools, NEW Houses, NEW Basketball Courts, NEW Streets, NEW Businesses. Beautiful Parks, Amazing Beaches, Multiple Swimming Pools, Well Kept Libraries.
Multiple plans have been made but everybody says they will fail so they are never attempted. People just constantly say that Gary will never work and therefore it won’t.
I love my city and I hope that one day people will realize that the stigma is no more than a bad rep.
You do not see Gangs walking the streets you see kids playing, You do not see people shooting people you see people mowing lawns and washing cars and having cookouts. Gary is more normal than people can see because everybody keeps new people from coming by telling them that Gary is terrible.
I won’t leave this “Magic City of Steel” It may not be a steel city anymore but it is still "The City of the Century"
Gary is Beautiful and one day maybe people will let change happen
Still we do have steel recognition
Gary is home to United States Steel’s largest plant which is the largest Steel Mill in the Northern Hemisphere.
other plusses are The Gary SouthShore RailCats baseball team were the Northern League Champions of 2005 The Gary Steelheads were the 2005 CBA eastern conference champions. (a steelhead is an actual type of fish it is not just a mixture of words)
The largest Bennigans in the US is in Gary.
Gary is much more than the Jacksons who turned their backs on their hometown So why do we keep claiming them we are just grasping at straws and I think it is pathetic.
--MJHankel 15:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Get past the color
In regards to the statement by User:TooPotato (Blacks intimidated Whites)
First of all Gary has black, hispanic, and white people all living fine and safe together
the true deffinition of white flight is not racial specific it just appears that way
the "white" in white flight is in regards to White-collar workers leaving the pvoerty stricken areas for the better
That is a partial annoyance of mine when it comes to that deffinition here on wikipedia I am planning on changing it
To many people in America are stuck on race that is another thing about change as long as you hold onto it it won't change
Gary citizens constantly complain about the white politicians and the white police officers
Who is to say they are not from the city?
People bicker about Scott King cause he is white The guy did a lot of good but like all Gary Mayors he screwed up at times. Even Richard G. Hatcher made mistakes he was inno way perfect.
No politician no matter what race or political offiliation will ever be able to relate to common middle and lower class people.
To quote from the movie Bulworth
| Bulworth at a political debate with two other candidates
"Oh? You mean... You're not here 'cause you're getting paid a bundle of money? C'mon, c'mon, we got three pretty rich guys here, getting paid by some really rich guys, to ask a couple of other rich guys, questions about their campaigns? But our campaigns are financed by the same guys that pay you guys your money." Bulworth states |
|---|
| then later he states
"We got a club, right? Republicans, Democrats...what's the difference? Your guys, my guys, our guys, us guys...it's a club!" |
| In one last scene as he is speaking at an all black church
"Angry black woman: Are you sayin' the Democratic Party don't care about the African-American community? Bullworth: Isn't that OBVIOUS? Half your kids are out of work and the other half are in jail. Do you see ANY Democrat doing anything about it? Certainly not me! So what're you gonna do, vote Republican? Come on! Come on, you're not gonna vote Republican! Let's call a spade a spade!" |
As it is I am sick of racial politics all they do is serve to ruin america.
I will vote for an honest man white or black Democrat or Republican.
Some day we gotta learn to judge people by what is on the inside.
--MJHankel 16:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Now Peace
Now that I am done ranting I would just like to point out that I have an extreme passion for Gary and as you may have noticed I have been doing a bit of contribution. If I ever do something that is wrong or if you just have a suggestion please let me know. I have added quite a bit of stub articles for the schools I welcome you to add to them.
God Bless
--MJHankel 16:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
