Talk:Gangs in England

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[edit] WikiProject British Crime

  • For those interested, a WikiProject regarding crime in Great Britain has been proposed. MadMax 19:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


The Liverpool Gang War section relates to mostly organised crime involving guns and shootouts, rather than street gangs. Maybe it should appear elsewhere. London street gangs bit needs sorting out too.

[edit] References

This article, in my opinion, is written up by only one website community that may not have all the facts. We need:

  1. Sources
  2. Government figures
  3. News reports
  4. Maybe a picture
  5. Crime studies

I'm doing research at the University of Wales into Gang crime, but there is only so much I know... HawkerTyphoon 02:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

As far as resources go they are out there but i dont have time right now to add them -

firstly for the bristol Section all the BBC news articles used in it are on the reference list, as well as non-fiction crime books from Tony Thompson.

the same can be said for liverpool and manchester, the books have been given.

there is a website for manchester MMAGS (Manchester Multi Agency Gang Strategy), a London Guns Gangs and weapons Forum, Operation Trident all gang/gun orientated.

The Home Office has produced a number of reports most notably Identifying and Tackling delinquent Youth Groups (Study into youth gangs), gangs and guns:rationalisation into current research on gang and gun crime a report by the Jill Dando Crime Institute, Also the British Journal of Criminology has some articles recently published regarding gngs in england. There are an estimated 30,000 street gang members in england in 2002 (Home Office). In Manchester a recent article and a quote from an LA Styl;ed Gang Initiative in Manchester has qouted the city as having 500+ gang members in Longsight/Moss Side Area, and the Beswick Area is quoted as having 100 seriously at risk youths, thats coming from the youth Offending Team. The informatiom is there to the public but it is just a case of them being interested or not? and most are not interested in the statistical side but they are interested in the media side (England Gangs)


I have added some facts and information regarding gun and gangs in the UK to the top of the page 9England Gangs)

[edit] gangs in england

ive started to add to the sections of this page with liverpool, manchester and bristol. however, i only have limited knowledge on these areas and so someone from these areas in the know should contribute further. im based in london but dont really have time to add to the london section because its a large complex area with many notable incidences of gang violence to mention in comparison to bristol/liverpool/manchester.


also how exactly do copywrite laws work because wikipedia said dont use things from observe without persmission. i mentioned what was in the article but did not copy what they had written. also i thought reproduction of literature was ok so long as it was properly referenced, can someone help me on this because i am unsure about how that sort of thing works on the internet


  • The copyright information for Wikipedia is long and complicated --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights . My comment on Copying things from The Observer was placed because the information there at that time was from The Observer, word for wor.d AFAIK, reproduction of literature is OK, as long as the literature is not copyrighted. text from The Observer is generally copyrighted either to the newspaper itself, or to the writer. Small quotes are generally acceptable, however large sections of text are not. I try and use 5% of the article maximum, although I'm not sure of the copyright law on this. As for referencing, I use the Harvard Referencing System - Long and complicated. Again, check Wikipedia Help for this info.

P.S. try and keep wikipedia as Neutral as possible. Don't worry too much about this though; other people will make adjustments as they see fit - that's what wikipedia is all about! Anymore questions, ask me! HawkerTyphoon 18:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Says Who......?

Will people please stop exagerrating the issue of gangs and guns in England. The all believing public in England are probably under the impression that gun crime in England is soaring out of control - yet the facts tell the opposite. Gun crime is often incorrectly quoted by journalists who use figures released by the Home Office. The Home Office takes note, not only of the overall number of incidents, but also of the contributions made to the total by different categories of weapon - airguns, imitation/toy guns etc... The reality is that actual firearms offences are falling. Today the media makes headlines about gang-related crime, however what really consists of a gang...most of the time its nothing more than a few kids who call themselves the 'eastside massif' and try to assimilate their heros on MTV. Kids rivaling each other from different estates has been commonplace for decades, yet today this is 'gang war'. The media plays a huge part in shaping young people's minds in our nation. And yes, rap 'stars' are to blame. Kids don't want to just look like their heros anymore, they want to act like them also. This can range from small efforts of conformity, to complete personality changes, with kids really believing they are like what rappers talk about (dog included). Few are wise enough to understand that these braggadocio rappers over-exagerate their lifestyles 1) to compensate for their own inadequacies and 2) it sells. Anyone in touch with mainstream rap music, with the advantage of living in a big city will easily be able to spot changes in their society as kids continue to conform to new images they expose themselves to. Equally, people who are familiar with US streetgangs won't be surprised when kids in their local neighbourhood start tagging up walls to mark their turf, and using hand signs to represent their gang affiliation (which I believe does happen in certain areas of the country). Tattoos will obviously be next. That said, how serious a problem do we have?

[edit] Vietnamese Criminal Activities in the UK

It has been discovered over the last 2 years in the UK that Vietnamese criminals are using ordinary houses to grow cannabis plants commercially under artificial growing conditions. The enterprise is now almost exclusively Vietnamese. Young illegal immigrants are smuggled from Vietnam to serve as 'gardeners' in these enterprises. The Vietnamese use, for example, Vietnamese nail parlours that have sprang up all over UK towns and cities, as fronts for their unlawful enterprises, with young innocent looking women sent out to rent houses from unsuspecting landlords. Recently, a combined Police effort to crack down on these enterprises, was launched in the form of Operation Keymer.


194.60.106.5 10:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC) Vietnamese criminals were also found to be running prostitution and people smuggling rings discovered in the recent UK combined Police Operation Pentameter. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4757023.stm 27 Oct 06.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/crimewatch/cctv_hackney.shtml


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4808468.stm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/334718.stm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/4077814.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4916276.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,,1860305,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1772195,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,,1731843,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1567386,00.html

http://www.ukcia.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=12256

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6445201.stm

http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/search/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&itemid=IPED16%20Mar%202007%2017:52:52:483&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=search

http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/news/story.aspx?brand=ESTOnline&category=News&tBrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=news&itemid=IPED26%20Feb%202007%2013%3A17%3A10%3A070

[edit] Birmingham Gangs

The Birmingham Gang War article i wrote using a large number of resources, although conscious of any copyright complications i will further edit this to make smaller.

[edit] Page in Question

It seems very few people contributing to this do not know anything about the current situation. All the people complaining about one sided-ness and neutrality etc.. the "academics" the almighty "gods" of wikipedia who look down upon those like a teacher punishing a child of incorrect pronunciation should shut the fuck up and leave the topic to those who are experts in the field. As with all speciality topics experts should be sought for the material displayed. Views such as those of "says who?" are very bias, stereotyping and ignorant.

Unless you have a genuine knowledge of the subject, keep your useless opinions to yourselves. I am by no means an expert and probably am somewhat as Naive as the "says who" guy. But i am open minded and would really appreciate some expert input from those who really know.


However condescending the "almighty gods" of wikipedia may seem their goal is the same. Regardless of an individuals expertise, proper grammatical usage and punctuation are imposed for the receptiveness of anyone using wikipedia. Articles need structure. You cannot take a whole bunch of statistics and slap them wherever you like on a page. Also, you cannot make statements without any evidential source. I do have to agree with some of the points made by the "says who?" person. The whole page is written in a completely bias format which strives to make points like current gangs in England are 'more violent than their predecesors' and essentially should be feared. The page is obviously referring to Streetgangs, and not gangs in general. As mentioned on this page gang activity from foreign nations practically dominates this country nowadays with the expansion of the EU amoungst other things. They are the ones profiting from drug dealers on the street, they are the ones who take home the big bucks (Tony Thompson - GANGS 2004). We definitly need to be clear on the level on gangs we are referring to here.

Its foolish to compare gangs like the Krays to streetgangs, which is probably why the information on this page needs to be re-written into a British Streetgangs article. I myself am no expert on the subject, and it would obviously take people from across the nation to give an accurate depiction on specific areas. I do know however that much of whats reported in the media reflects common traits of US streetgangs. I do not think it is ignorant to say that kids are assimilating whats exposed to them through popular media channels - especially when you have groups in B'ham and Manchester calling themselves Crips and Bloods and dressing in Los Angeles based gang attire. It is my view that many of the people editing this page are less interested in creating a neutral informative article, and more interested in portraying a false image of streetgangs in our society.

[edit] Cleanup

This article is in dire need of a complete revision or re-write to bring it up to the standards of a Wikipedia article. I urge anyone who feels they have the competence to contribute to this page that they first understand the guidelines for editing a Wikipedia article. These can be found under the help link to the left of the page. This is not a teacher to student lecture, however the current version reads like a jumble of statistics and storytelling. If you are unsure on how to contribute or edit a page, or on how/what a well written article should be templated on, please browse the help section - it is extensive, but you will find a wealth of information beneficial to both you, and the reader. Roguestate


I will do this when i have some free time. It seems many do not understand the complexities of gang research and what gangs actually are. The term gets used carelessly. There is no consensus on a single definition in 70 years of research. And many argue, with regard to youth gangs, that much youth crime is committed by groups - where do you draw the line between a gang and a group of young criminals? Many people generalise gangs as gun carrying drug dealers. However, this is not the case although it does account for much of the sensationalist media reports of gangs in this country. I intend to bring this page up to standard.


OK so i start to clean up and remove large sections for rewriting and wikipedia immediatley removes those changes to put the page back how it was? reverts to previous or something? Why?

OK tried again adding references and rewriting and it keeps saying edit conflict and disregarding my edits for fuck sakes!!!!! I give up. Who's next?

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