Talk:Gamepad
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[edit] Dual shock production
The mini-joystick was introduced with the Nintendo 64 controller.
-- Wasn't the PS Dual Shock earlier? ~ FriedMilk 12:29, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)
- Nope. I don't remember the date I first heard of the Dual Shock, but this says it was announced in 1998, which seems plausible. That makes the gap ~3 years. Fredrik | talk 13:11, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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- Actually, they had been working on it since 1995 [[1]], but the rumble gave them immense problems. Daniel Davis 21:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Arcadia
Wait, Emerson Arcadia? I had one of those. There wasn't an analog controller on the system... it had a disc like the Intellivision, although a stick could be screwed into the hole in the center of the disc. Perhaps the contributor was thinking of the Bally Astrocade instead? That had a digital joystick, but the top of the stick could be turned like a dial. ~ Jess Ragan
[edit] Game.com and DS
Would interfaces like the touch screen in the Game.com and DS be applicable here, or does 'handheld gaming' not count in gamepads? --Thaddius 00:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Handhelds were the introducers of a great many technologies currently in use in regards to gamepads, including the use of the first Dpad, so it makes sense to include them. --
Daniel Davis 01:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Handhelds were the introducers of a great many technologies currently in use in regards to gamepads, including the use of the first Dpad, so it makes sense to include them. --
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- Hmm... the only problem I'm having is that I wouldn't know where to put it. Everything is divided into companies. Should I make a section in the Nintendo bit about the DS being the first 'widely popular' touch screen based system, indicating that the game.com was an earlier example? --Thaddius 12:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well I went ahead and added it to the Nintendo section as I suggested above. We'll see if it meets Ex Nintendo Employees approval as 'accurate'. If anyone else could add anything useful that would be grand. --Thaddius 16:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure whether the info about handheld systems belongs here - isn't there a page for that? -Unknownwarrior33 23:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
- Well I went ahead and added it to the Nintendo section as I suggested above. We'll see if it meets Ex Nintendo Employees approval as 'accurate'. If anyone else could add anything useful that would be grand. --Thaddius 16:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm... the only problem I'm having is that I wouldn't know where to put it. Everything is divided into companies. Should I make a section in the Nintendo bit about the DS being the first 'widely popular' touch screen based system, indicating that the game.com was an earlier example? --Thaddius 12:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Virtual Boy
Thaddius, you keep inserting a little piece about the Virtual Boy that's both original research, and I don't think its correct. The analog stick has been around for a long time- far longer than either the N64 or the Virtual Boy. So have dual digital controls as well. There's no evidence that the Virtual Boy was an "early" anything, except maybe in regards to literal three dimensional display on a handheld system. I've reverted the addition; I would really, really recommend that you please do more research on the subject you're writing about- it would help things out immensely. Thanks! Ex-Nintendo Employee 17:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
- Calm down, punchy. It's just the internet, not life and death. If you want to ignore the existence of the Virtual Boy, fine by me. But it was an early 3D console with 3D controls. Before the VB, 3D games didn't really have 3D controls, I'm sure you'd agree. Nintendo, Sega and Sony made a big deal about the 3d-ness of the N64, NiGHTS pack-in, and Dual Shock controllers. From 1950 to 1995, what other consoles used 3D gampads with 3D graphics? Please enlighten us Mr. 'I Know Eveything and Clearly you Don't' cause you seem to know. P.S. You might want to tone down your language a little. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were trying to be aggressive. --Thaddius 12:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
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- "Calm down"? "Punchy"? Thaddius, your comments are uncalled for. I've explained politely that I didn't feel your addition about the Virtual Boy is correct, and it still isn't. The Virtual Boy was not an "early console"- it was made in 1995. It had two D-Pads, yes. But even while it was working with those, you had items like the Sony Dual Analog Flightstick, which had both full analog sensitivity and dual sticks. Even earlier than that, systems that required spacial control such as flight simulators have frequently utilized more than one axis control. I've asked you to do more research because you've made blatant errors in your edit, no more, no less. Secondly, I would advise you to monitor your tone- while I've been polite with you, your response smacks of losing control of yourself. I've forgiven your incivility and focused on the content of your edit itself, and I would recommend you focus on your edit itself as well. Ex-Nintendo Employee 17:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- Alright 'Ex-Nintendo Employee', as I guess you'd prefer to be called, you misunderstand me. I was not being hostile, but 'chummy'. My mistake, I guess I shouldn't give people nicknames based on how I feel their talking to me. Due to the nature of the page, which is organized by company and not by controller type (a mistake I feel), I felt I had no place to add the dual d-pad info and thought a good place to add stuff on it was the Ninty part (I ran into a similar problem with the touch screen), but because you're so opposed to it, I'll back off, I tell you, I don't care that much, and like I said, it's just the internet, not life and death. If you'll notice, I've stopped trying to add it. And just so we're clear, none of my posts, this one included, were meant as hostile. I'm aware I have a very sarcastic writing style so I'll try to curb it for you. And like I said before, if you know so much about it, why don't you make the entry on dual d-pads so 'pushy' people like myself don't cause confusion in the future. --Thaddius 12:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry to keep pressing the point, but according to the Sony Flightstick page, the flightstick in question was, "Announced to the public in August 1995, [2]", and then "...released to the public in Japan in early April 1996 [3]." Now, just so you know, the Virtual Boy was released in July of 1995. The sony flightstick and it's dual analog sticks, was announced after the VB was released. I think my point still matters. According to this research, the VBs dual d-pads were one of the eariliest experiments with 3D controls in a console (after mouse and keyboard games), which was my point all along. So, before I go so far as to re-post my point for the third time, which other controllers are you referring to ex-nintendo employee? --Thaddius 13:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Alright 'Ex-Nintendo Employee', as I guess you'd prefer to be called, you misunderstand me. I was not being hostile, but 'chummy'. My mistake, I guess I shouldn't give people nicknames based on how I feel their talking to me. Due to the nature of the page, which is organized by company and not by controller type (a mistake I feel), I felt I had no place to add the dual d-pad info and thought a good place to add stuff on it was the Ninty part (I ran into a similar problem with the touch screen), but because you're so opposed to it, I'll back off, I tell you, I don't care that much, and like I said, it's just the internet, not life and death. If you'll notice, I've stopped trying to add it. And just so we're clear, none of my posts, this one included, were meant as hostile. I'm aware I have a very sarcastic writing style so I'll try to curb it for you. And like I said before, if you know so much about it, why don't you make the entry on dual d-pads so 'pushy' people like myself don't cause confusion in the future. --Thaddius 12:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- "Calm down"? "Punchy"? Thaddius, your comments are uncalled for. I've explained politely that I didn't feel your addition about the Virtual Boy is correct, and it still isn't. The Virtual Boy was not an "early console"- it was made in 1995. It had two D-Pads, yes. But even while it was working with those, you had items like the Sony Dual Analog Flightstick, which had both full analog sensitivity and dual sticks. Even earlier than that, systems that required spacial control such as flight simulators have frequently utilized more than one axis control. I've asked you to do more research because you've made blatant errors in your edit, no more, no less. Secondly, I would advise you to monitor your tone- while I've been polite with you, your response smacks of losing control of yourself. I've forgiven your incivility and focused on the content of your edit itself, and I would recommend you focus on your edit itself as well. Ex-Nintendo Employee 17:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
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- It may have been announced at that time, but the flightstick was in development for a lot longer than that- a technology like an analog stick can take years to develop. The flightstick page was just to show you that there really wasn't a connection between the Virtual Boy and subsequent dual analog technologies that followed, given that dual stick x/y/z technologies had already reached fruition at that time, not just experiments in pad technology. Companies had moved far beyond the experimental stage at that point; a digital pad certainly wouldn't have influenced them given the many downfalls that such a pad presents to the user. If you want actual early experiments, you should take a look at a game like "I, Robot" for the Atari 5200- arguably the first filled polygon game and it let you control the 3D viewpoint camera. Heck, they even made a prototype of it for the Atari 2600 that used dual controls- you used the second joystick to move the camera [4]. Unfortunately, the Virtual Boy, much as a lot of us would like for it to have been influential, was something that really wasn't. It was a pet project that Gumpei Yokoi had been working on, and Nintendo grew tired of him "wasting time" with it. He knew it wasn't ready- his finished vision was to use colored LEDs (morbidly expensive at the time but availiable at a good cost now) instead of the basic red and black. But Nintendo grew tired of the amount of time that was being taken and forced the VB to market before it was ready in order to put more resources into the Nintendo 64. At the electronics show that year, the N64 had a huge prominent booth, while Gumpei was left to promote "his" machine in a small corner. The machine quietly died, Gumpei was blamed and subsequently railroaded out of Nintendo as a result. Since you're a VB fan, there's a really great segement that talks about this in a book called "Game Over" by David Scheff. It's really work a read, Thaddius. A real eye opener, for sure. Ex-Nintendo Employee 18:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- All the info you posted on the VB is general knowledge to anyone who is aware of the VBs existence and the website planet virtual boy goes into just as much detail as Game Over. I can't say I appreciate you assuming that I know nothing about what I'm talking about. And I certainly don't 'want' it to be influential. To get back on track, if the flightstick was in development for a long time before it was announced. The Virtual Boy, having been announed before, was conceivably in development earlier than the flightstick as both used technologies that were never applied to video games. As for i, robot, that was an arcade game. If you'll remember, we're talking about gamepads, primarily ones for consoles and I don't think an arcade control scheme applies. So, let's recap, i, robot, although polygonal and 3d, did not use the gamepad we are discussing. The prototype Atari 2600 controller you mentioned was never released publicly. The flightstick was announced, and was released after the VB. So, so far, the VB controller is one of the earliest released gamepads that considers true 3D controls. So, what's the problem now? --Thaddius 22:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- It may have been announced at that time, but the flightstick was in development for a lot longer than that- a technology like an analog stick can take years to develop. The flightstick page was just to show you that there really wasn't a connection between the Virtual Boy and subsequent dual analog technologies that followed, given that dual stick x/y/z technologies had already reached fruition at that time, not just experiments in pad technology. Companies had moved far beyond the experimental stage at that point; a digital pad certainly wouldn't have influenced them given the many downfalls that such a pad presents to the user. If you want actual early experiments, you should take a look at a game like "I, Robot" for the Atari 5200- arguably the first filled polygon game and it let you control the 3D viewpoint camera. Heck, they even made a prototype of it for the Atari 2600 that used dual controls- you used the second joystick to move the camera [4]. Unfortunately, the Virtual Boy, much as a lot of us would like for it to have been influential, was something that really wasn't. It was a pet project that Gumpei Yokoi had been working on, and Nintendo grew tired of him "wasting time" with it. He knew it wasn't ready- his finished vision was to use colored LEDs (morbidly expensive at the time but availiable at a good cost now) instead of the basic red and black. But Nintendo grew tired of the amount of time that was being taken and forced the VB to market before it was ready in order to put more resources into the Nintendo 64. At the electronics show that year, the N64 had a huge prominent booth, while Gumpei was left to promote "his" machine in a small corner. The machine quietly died, Gumpei was blamed and subsequently railroaded out of Nintendo as a result. Since you're a VB fan, there's a really great segement that talks about this in a book called "Game Over" by David Scheff. It's really work a read, Thaddius. A real eye opener, for sure. Ex-Nintendo Employee 18:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
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- I was GOING to post a big long thing here detailing what I disagreed with, but I felt that the best thing would be to go about your edit step by step.
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- Your edit:
- "The Virtual Boy controller was an early step towards the use of analog sticks in video games with it's dual directional pads."
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- You have attempted to link the development of Analog sticks to the Virtual Boy. Analog sticks existed long before the Virtual Boy, dating back as far as the Vectrex.
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- "The prescence of two pads was in an effort to control objects in a 3D environment (one pad controlling pitch and turning while the other controlling forward movement and straifing)."
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- This is all right, I have no problem with this part.
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- "The dual directional pads were a digital precursor to the dual analog sticks seen on most sixth generation controllers and their application in games.
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- You have attempted here to link the Virtual Boy pads to the current Analog sticks used in gaming. As I stated before, analog sticks have existed for over a decade, and the Sony Flightstick (upon which potentiometer the Dual Analog pad and Dual Shock was based on) was, as stated earlier, in development during the same period of time as the Virtual Boy (in other words, it was not influenced by the system itself, given NDA agreements).
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- This is why I reverted your Virtual Boy edit. I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way. Hopefully it can go on track from here.
- How about an edit like this? I think it takes out the original research while retaining the Virtual Boy's mention in the article.
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- "The Virtual Boy controller was a controller which utilized dual gamepads similar to how analog sticks functioned in later "dual control" sixth-generation systems. The presence of two pads was an effort to control objects in a 3D environment (one pad controlling pitch and turning while the other controlling forward movement and strafing). The "two gamepad" setup has since been used in the GameCube controller." Ex-Nintendo Employee 23:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- And so instead of deleting it, what are you doing to make it more accurate? --Thaddius 01:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, I've put in the modified version of the paragraph you wrote. I hope you think its ok. Ex-Nintendo Employee 01:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- And so instead of deleting it, what are you doing to make it more accurate? --Thaddius 01:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- "The Virtual Boy controller was a controller which utilized dual gamepads similar to how analog sticks functioned in later "dual control" sixth-generation systems. The presence of two pads was an effort to control objects in a 3D environment (one pad controlling pitch and turning while the other controlling forward movement and strafing). The "two gamepad" setup has since been used in the GameCube controller." Ex-Nintendo Employee 23:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Re-do
I move that this page should be re-organized from companies to a chronological history. This current setup has caused some confusion between ex-nintendo employee and I, as well as some other things. It should be a who-did-what-first approach, just so no one gets... punchy about details. Any takers? --Thaddius 13:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm all for it; I think that would make things easier and leave more room for more "obscure" consoles. -Unknownwarrior33 23:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sony gamepad
"...the action buttons (referred not by color or letter/number like most pads until then, but by four shapes - a square, a triangle, a circle, and an X)"
Following the logic of the other three buttons, shouldn't "and an X" be changed to "and a saltire"? The article itself states that the actions buttons aren't reffered to by letters, so an X (the letter), can't be right. --Hecko 19:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
