Talk:Gabriel Fahrenheit
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||
| Start | This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] (If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) |
||
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Physics, which collaborates on articles related to physics. | |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale. [FAQ] | |
| ??? | This article has not yet received an importance rating within physics. | |
|
Please rate this article, and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. |
||
Contents |
[edit] Gdansk/Danzig
The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Template:Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary. |
[edit] Danzig == City State
church records (legal records of citizens born in Danzig): http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=352724&subject_disp=Germany%2C+Preu%C3%9Fen%2C+Westpreu%C3%9Fen%2C+Danzig+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0
[edit] Gdansk
The City is called Gdansk and was a Part of Poland not (Now Gdansk,Poland)
http://chem.oswego.edu/chem209/Misc/fahrenheit.htm
Another source that it was a Part of Poland. Now Poland shouldnt be included in this article my change however did mentuon the german name of danzig. Kommiec 05:12, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
When signing for Royal Society Fahrenheit wrote: Fahrenheit, Polonus. AM
I removed the following from the article:
- "He signed his name in latin as "Fahrenheit-Polonus", that gives us some hint about XVIII century citizenship concepts"
I will add a that back (minus the subjective interpretation of citizenship which would be an interpretation/opinion and not fact) when a reliable source for this information is given. Maximus Rex 20:00, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Why remove? Wasn't he a citizen of Kings city of Danzig, that belonged to Poland??? To sign into Royal Society he was supposed to add some personal informations, including citizenship. In this situation, please keep this information, until I failed to provide sources, OK? AM
I don't understand what you are trying to saying. I have asked you to provide a reliable source for contentious information that you've added, without a reliable source it should not be included. Maximus Rex 20:10, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I am saying, that rather you should provide information about alleged "German" allegiation of Fahrenheit. He was a Pole, as other 12 000 000 of that time, was. Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants and Jews. Speaking Polish, German, Lithuanian, Belorussian. Your beloved Reich was created in 1871 and starting from that time most of German speaking people gradually invented German national awerness. If you find a proof that he shed his Polish state citizenship, you are free to say Deutcher Fahrenheit. AM
I don't understand why you are attacking me, ethnically Fahrenheit is without doubt German as most biographies indicate (however I will not push the issue). I have provided a source for the Fahrenheit family history. You have not provided a source for you contentious "Fahrenheit Polonus" claim. I have seen photographs of Fahrenheit's signature and it is not as you described. Maximus Rex 20:22, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Do I oppose the fact that he was ethnic German?? I am asking why you refuse to accept the fact, that he was a Polish citizen. AM
Original text of the above post given in this diff:[1].
It's fine that you have your own interpretation of history, that doesn't change that you've provided no reliable source for the "Fahrenheit Polonus" claim. Maximus Rex 20:35, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Let's start from the beginning. Fahrenheit was born as a Polish citizen, then moved to Netherlands. Eventually, he went to London. His state allegiation was Polish-Dutch. Do you oppose? AM
Yes, I do object. Absolutely none of the references I've consulted indicate Polish citizenship. You could call him German or German-Dutch, indicating his German ethnicity or also noting that he lived most of his life in the Netherlands. I would accept not mentioning anything about his nationality as a compromise.
check out these references:
- Encyclopedia Britannica: "German physicist"
- encyclopedia.com "German-Dutch physicist"
- Encarta: "German physicist"
- Maximus Rex 21:59, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
The resources that you are pointing out base on chauvinistically screwed materials from the times of German Reich. What I wanted you to find out, are original resources from the times of Fahrehneit. After 1871, Germans started to claim everything in history as allegedly German. In reality, Fahrenheit was Polish citizen, was also connected to Lower German sphere of culture, that included Baltics, Netherlands and Hanseatic towns in Germany. The meaning of Germanhood, that your resources claim, were not in place in 1724. In this time even King of Poland was, as you claim, ethnic German, but his greatest enemies were other Germans, while Poles were allied to Saxons. Stop your nationalistically biased edit wars!
The only one having a "nationalistically biased edit war" is you, since I have offered to not state any nationality. The Encyclopedia Britannica is generally considered the most respected encyclopedia in the english language and not "chauvinistically screwed material", as you describe it. Maximus Rex 22:16, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
In 1724 Poland existed and Germany practically not. In 1901 was other way around. Fahrenheit clearly stated his citizenship. Please provide source materials, to prove you are right! User:WolfgangPeters
What source do you need? Just look at any recently published historical map of the period and see in what country he was born. There is also an excellent book by Karin Friedrich called "The Other Prussia", which talks about the polish province Royal Prussia in XVI, XVII and XVIII centuries. It looks in detail at the issue of identity of the german speaking citizens of Poland. You will find a lot of interesting and unbelievable facts in there. And please, don't accuse others of interpreting history, if you can only contradict them with some old stereotypes and arguments using the "everybody knows..." line.
I'm not changing anything. I don't want an edit war but mutual understanding reached through calm discussion.
Happy Holidays, everyone!
Space Cadet 20:52, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
If we are going to use people's ethnicity rather than their time and place of birth to define their "citizenship" (for want of a better word), there won't be many Australian or American physicists, actors, politicians, etc. Not a good idea. It seems to me that time and place of birth should be used to define initial citizenship with a note for people who changed their citizenship in later life through emigration, declaration or whatever. And that view makes Fahrenheit Polish by birth, where-ever his great-grandfathers came from and whatever states he may later have settled in. -- Derek Ross
You're exaggerating the case a bit there. According to the article, Farenheit's family had been living in Gdansk for 36 years when he was born. Compare with that the 200 years that anglo-saxon Australian or American familes can claim in their country, plus the fact that they have a passport and a government who claim them as actually American (or Australian). And while the US will give you a passport just for being born there, in most countries being born in a stable doesn't entitle you to call yourself a horse.
Not that I think Farenheit definitely can't be said to be Polish - I know nothing about Gdansk, so I have no idea whether the authorities there would have considered his family Polish or resident foreigners. But I think the judgement should be made based on sources of the time, not on modern patriotism or in order not to set a precedent whereby some non-Australian muppet might try to steal Howard Florey or J. Paul Hogan - they can be dealt with if and when they turn up. Onebyone 02:19, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Sorry, I had to correct some phrases and names in the article; it was clear that some people had added stuff which had nothing to do with Fahrenheit. Gdansk before 1945 was known as Danzig (or Dantzig, Dantzic) in the English world, so we should use this expression for the 17th century. We should also add the name "Gdansk" to make clear how the city is called today. This is what I did. I also deleted the Polish name of Königsberg, as it was actually Kneiphof where Fahrenheit's grandfather moved from. Kneiphof later was made part of Königsberg (today: Kaliningrad). It is also unnecessary to discuss in detail in such a short article that Fahrenheit was born to a German family and what exactly the status of Danzig at that time was.
Now to the discussion about Fahrenheit's nationality and citizenship. Please do not apply modern notions of citizenship to historical situations. Before 1871, there was no German national state, so there was no German citizenship. Does this now mean that people like Luther, Bach, and Beethoven were not German? Of course not, because the notion of nationality at that time was cultural - not civil or ethnic. And in the 17th century, Danzig was fully integrated in the German cultural sphere, although its origins were slavic (like those of Lübeck, Leipzig, Dresden, and Berlin, for example). The city was autonomous as many other German cities in this time, and only formally part of the Kingdom of Poland. Greifswald, e.g., a small city at the Baltic sea in what is today Germany, was under the Swedish Crown for two centuries. But do we call Caspar David Friedrich, the romantic painter, Swedish? Of course not, although he was born in 1774 when the city was under Swedish rule. Moreover, I am sure that Fahrenheit was German in such a degree that he would have been driven out of Danzig in 1945 with all other inhabitants of the city. And finally, I do not know any Pole who would call Adam Mickiewicz Russian, although there was no Polish state at the time of his birth.
I want to make clear the following point: I know and acknowledge that today, Gdansk is a Polish city and that it is going to stay Polish. Germany has officially given up her claim to the former Eastern territories, and I support that policy, as the vast majority of Germans do. I know that the war started by Germany inflicted great suffering to the Polish people, and, as a German, I feel deeply sorry for that. This, however, is not a sufficient reason to rewrite Danzig's history before 1945, because we should stay to the historical truth. It is also important to know that it was Stalin who decided in 1945 that large German territories were given under Polish administration - thus, he intended to provoke lasting hatred between Poland and Germany. I know that it is very difficult for Poles to accept that a significant part of their country consists of territories with a German political and cultural heritage, but may be some time this will be acknowledged.
Sorry that I wrote all this stuff in this place. I just noticed that in a lot of articles, history back up to the deep middle ages is rewritten to justifiy the course of 20th century history, and I just came over this article by chance. Levimanthys 01:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
As all my changes have already been reverted, I understand that it does not make any sense to improve this or any other article with an involvement of German and Polish persons. It is sad to have nonsense phrases in the article like this one: "Daniel's grandfather Reinhold Fahrenheit vom Kneiphof moved to Gdańsk from Królewiec (Königsberg) and settled as a merchant." Which does not at all make clear that this man moved from Kneiphof (today: part of Kaliningrad) to Danzig (today: Gdansk), but rather suggests his name was "vom Kneiphof" and that he moved between two Polish cities. Moreover, why is the city called Królewiec? Before 1945, the city was known in the English language as Königsberg, and after that as Kaliningrad. There was never a significant Polish minority in that city, and its connection to Poland is comparable to that of historical Spain and Austria - it has nothing to do with the inhabitants, but is only due to feudalism. The nonsense, however continues. In the French Wikipedia you can read: Le degré Fahrenheit est une unité de mesure de la température, qui doit son nom au physicien polonais Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit). Here, Fahrenheit is already Polish (though he is still German in the article about his person). I am looking forward to the day when Caspar David Friedrich will be called Swedish, Gerhart Hauptmann and Arthur Schopenhauer Polish, and Immanuel Kant Russian, or better also Polish. And Alessandro Manzoni was an Austrian of course, not an Italian, because he was born in Milan in 1785, which was at that time called Mailand and was part of Austria. Copernicus is already widely considered to be Polish, because today nobody wants to understand the complicated situation in the area which was under both German and Polish influence. As I said, I will not participate in childish edit wars. But everybody should be aware that he reads a lot of nonsense in Wikipedia, especially as regarding to questions of nationality, national pride and history. Fortunately, there are more important questions than these, and a lot of articles dealing with scientific topics are quite good and informative. Levimanthys 12:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Fahrenheit
Article reads:
- It is still used by the general population for everyday temperature measurement in the United States and a few other English-speaking countries.
Which other English countries? I thought in UK, Canada, Ireland weather reports and medical body temperature measurements were metricated; they certaintly are in Australia and NZ, which is close to the whole English-speaking world, bar the US. -- SJK
- The last time I was in Britain, no, the time before that (three summers ago?), there was great excitement over the occurrence in London of a temperature of 100°F in the shade. The Brits I talked with talked in terms of Fahrenheit. Moreover, until recently (and for all I know perhaps even now) BBC Radio 4 would routinely give temperatures in pairs, Celsius and Fahrenheit; I got the impression that Mr and Ms Average Brit would ignore the former and think in terms of the latter. -- Hoary 06:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Daniel Gabriel Fahrinheiet
Daniel Gabriel Fahrenhiet was born May.24,1686 and dieded in September on the 16thin 1736.
[edit] Thermometers
Article reads: "He built precise thermometers." How precise were they really? Fahrenheit reads: "His measurements were not entirely accurate, though; by his original scale, the actual freezing and boiling points would have been noticeably different from 32 °F and 212 °F. Some time after his death it was [recalibrated by 2.6 °F]." This certainly wasn't precise by our modern standards — how precise was it considered then? — Sebastian (talk) 04:26, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Konigsberg, Kaliningrad, Krolowiec
this is about adding the Polish name to the article. Molobo says it should be because it has a shared Polish-German History. But the shared Polish history is only that it was ruled by a Polish fief, the rulers were Germans, semi-independent from Poland. I say it should not be called Krolowiec (the polish name) as the Kaliningrad/Konigsberg article does not use the term except in the tiniest portion on when it was a Polish fiefdom (note: not actually owning or ruling the land).
In conclusion, the Polish name should not be used as the Polish name is not even used in the city's article. --Jadger 23:07, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wrong Picture?
The person on the picture in the article is probably not Gabriel Fahrenheit, but Anders Celsius. It is very unlikely that Gabriel Fahrenheit and Anders Celsius were that similar. // November 4, 2006
- As this seems to be the case, I deleted the link, and tagged the image for deletion. -- Matthead discuß! O 12:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Hanseatic League and Polish POV
The Fahrenheit family and Fahrenheit himself were merchants that clearly used the opportunities that the Hanseatic League cities, and associated cities, offered. It is a sure sign of ignorance or deliberate POV pushing if referenceas to Danzig as a Hanseatic League member city are deleted in favour of a Polish POV. This country had few if any influence on Fahrenheit's life and work in the Netherlands. -- Matthead discuß! O 12:18, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
