Talk:Fukuyama, Hiroshima

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[edit] Correct page name?

Would the proper name in English be Fukuyama City? Reading the official website (external link), I got that impression. Likewise, this is a particular city in Hiroshima Prefecture, not a neighborhood or quarter of Hiroshima City as might be thought from the present form of the page name with the comma. Disambiguation isn't a likely reason, as this is the only geographic habitation named among the instances of Fukuyama. Please advise! -- Deborahjay 16:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Please refer to here CES 16:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Since this is the only geographical Fukuyama (in the Japanese wikipedia there is mention of a part of a town in Kagoshima with that name, but that's not likely to get an entry of its own), why not just make it Fukuyama and correct the disambig to say something like "Fukuyama, a city in Hiroshima province, Japan"? TomorrowTime 16:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

No - the format rule (provided by CES, above) is quite decisive regarding Wikipedia styling of page names for Japanese cities. I'd only like to know whether this city's name is simply Fukuyama or Fukuyama City. --- Deborahjay 17:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

As -shi (市) is appended to the names of nearly every city in Japan, it could very much be argued that "City" is not part of the name of the city, only a grammatical element. You're welcome to use whichever you'd like, but technically speaking, I'd say Fukuyama City is no more or less correct than Hiroshima City, Sapporo City, and Nagoya City. So, it's up to your tastes and preferences, I'd say. LordAmeth 17:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The city's name is Fukuyama and the current page name is correct. The sole reason that the -shi is appended is to clarify the hierarchical position of the local government. Dekimasu 02:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I lived near there, and spoke to many English-speaking people in that area, and everyone called it simply "Fukuyama" rather than "Fukuyama City." So, "Fukuyama, Hiroshima" is the correct way to list it here according to the WP:MOS-JA (as previously mentioned). There are many places, even outside of Japan, which have "City" as part of their official name, but the Wikipedia articles almost never include "City" in the title of the article. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 20:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, 日本穣. Likewise, there are many places outside Japan that have "city" before their legal name, for example, the City of Boston, Massachusetts. Note that Boston's web site has the title "City of Boston," but the Wikipedia article is at "Boston, Massachusetts," not "City of Boston, Massachusetts."

The word "City" serves to distinguish the corporation (the legal body that governs the place, with the power to hire and fire employees, borrow and spend money, enact ordinances, levy taxes and carry out similar actions) from the patch of land, citizens, history, buildings, transportation and other things that altogether make up Fukuyama or any other city. If the article were only about the corporation, then "Fukuyama City" would be desirable as a title. Since, however, the article is about the corporation, and the patch of land, and the citizens, and the history and all the other things, we should (in my opinion) not name it "Fukuyama City, Hiroshima" but rather "Fukuyama, Hiroshima."

Now, Deborahjay stated "I'd only like to know whether this city's name is simply Fukuyama or Fukuyama City." My answer is that the corporation that governs it is Fukuyama City. In Japanese, it has the legal name 福山市 which in the Latin alphabet is Fukuyamashi. The last kanji, 市 or shi, means "City," and this city's governing corporation calls itself Fukuyama City in English. The Wikipedia article is only in part about Fukuyama City (the body that governs Fukuyama) and it's also in part about Fukuyama, in the broad sense. So if you are entering into legal transactions with the city, such as by lending it money, paying taxes, accepting employment at City Hall, you are dealing with Fukuyama City. But if you're writing about the geography, people, history, and other aspects, you are discussing Fukuyama.

The source of confusion might be Hiroshima, which is the name of both a city and a prefecture (not a province). This is closely analogous to New York, which is the name of both a city and a state in the United States. Just as "Albany, New York" does not mean "Albany, a part of the city of New York" but rather "Albany in the state of New York," "Fukuyama, Hiroshima" means "Fukuyama in the prefecture of Hiroshima."

It's interesting to contrast this with Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. A person who wants "City" to be part of the title of the Wikipedia article might be quick to point out this as an example. But if you go to the city's web site, you discover that the legal name of the governing corporation is even more complicated: The City of Oklahoma City. So the Wikipedia article removes "The City of" from this, as well. For an even more complicated name, see Kansas City, Kansas (Unified Government of Wyandotte County/Kansas City, Kansas).

In any case, if one wished to pursue the matter of renaming, the place to do so would be Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles), because the discussion pertains to all cities, towns and villages in Japan, not just to Fukuyama.

Fg2 04:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)