User talk:FrummerThanThou/Archive 1

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[edit] Renetto

Hi! No, it's OK to reach me on my talk page. If the individual you're referring to is as notable as you say, then it's my bad for having deleted it. Please feel free to recreate it under the proper spelling.  :) - Lucky 6.9 03:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you can't.  :) That's an administrator thing. Just takes a moment and you'll be good to go. - Lucky 6.9 03:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

"Paul Robinett" isn't showing up in the deletion log. What was the exact name of the article? - Lucky 6.9 03:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, my. I found it...but it's a failed article for deletion. I'll leave it up to you to establish the notability of this individual. Good luck. - Lucky 6.9 03:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• Hot damn tamale! Anyone who has these kinds of numbers on a site like YouTube and did a PSA for Young & Rubicam is off-the-hook notable. The way it was originally written made it look like a "puff piece." That coupled with the failed AfD are what caused me to block this in the first place. Outstanding save. - Lucky 6.9 04:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Preview button and cleanup tags

Referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Renetto&action=history You need to learn how to use the 'show preview' button. You are making a total chaos of page histories this way. Also, since every copy is saved independently, your way of working is costing Wikipedia a HUGE amount of unnecessary space. Please USE THE PREVIEW BUTTON. Next, stop adding cleanup-tags and wikify-tags on all kinds of articles. I suspect you are the same person as this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=168.254.226.175 . I signalized you adding a tag to Neturei Karta. Thereby, you completely destroyed the page lay-out. You also added one to Kabbalah Centre. Both tags were totally unnecessary, since neither article needs a 'clean-up'. I welcome you here to Wikipedia, but you must learn how to use it properly. --Daniel575 | (talk) 18:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

No, you're not doing it right yet. You can *edit* a section by clicking the 'edit' button in the page, next to the section head. There is no need to post 3 messages. Now, again, explain the cleanup tag on Neturei Karta. I see no need for such a tag there. The article looks fine to me. You have still not explained what needs to be cleaned up. Come with reasons, and do something about it. And use some of the following links (the following is a standard template) to learn how to edit Wikipedia properly:

[edit] Welcome!

Hello, FrummerThanThou, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --

Daniel575 | (talk) 21:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC) this is wierd

[edit] Done

Yasher koach. - crz crztalk 00:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] YouTube Celebs

In keeping with WP:NPOV, these lists should remain in alphabetical order, not by some kind of order of fame or importance. Thanks. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, i didnt realist that. thanks.

[edit] Vote request

Please Vote, as per wiktionary the correct spelling is Wiktionary:anti-Semitic NOT Antisemitic. 70.49.85.238 20:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New project

is not necessary, I think. WP:JEW should suffice. You can start a subpage for your tasks under WP:JEW but to start a new project would be seen as a snub by all the established Jews. You don't live in Passaic btw, do you? Just curious... - crz crztalk 04:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

What we have is WP:JEW for all denominations, WP:OJ for the frume, and WT:ORBCW is used for general matters as well, even though the related project page is only for rabbi bios. The talk pages of the first two links should suffice to notify all the interested individuals. By the way, I am glad you liked stuff off my userpage and talkpage. Enjoy. - crz crztalk 04:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] STOP your changes NOW!

Dear Chavatshimshon: Welcome, and thank you for contacting me. Regarding your changes @ Chavatshimshon edits Please do not make any more changes or moves to Jewish articles. You are too new to Wikipedia. You are not even reverting articles correctly (by creating multiple double reverts). You are also creating duplicate articles of existing articles, which creates even more problems. The articles you are fiddling around with have been worked on for many years. You cannot move and change these articles without discussing it with the nearly one hundred known members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism; Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish history; Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish culture and others. I am going to ask some experienced editors, who are also admins, to examine your recent changes and to revert your moves until we can get some better idea of what it is that you are doing, and if it is going to help the Jewish and Judaism articles on Wikipedia. Stay tuned. This message is being shared with User:Jmabel; User:Jayjg; User:Jfdwolff; User:TShilo12 and User:Humus sapiens. Thank you. IZAK 08:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

What IZAK refers to are not "double reverts", but double redirects: The Wiki software is in trouble if a redirect page points to another redirect page. Thus, when moving a page, you should make sure that all redirects to the old page instead become redirects to the new one. The "What links here" button in the toolbox is a great help. It might be even better to change all links to the old page, but since IZAK objects to your moves, we should probably await the discussion results before doing these changes (else we might have to undo them again). Yours, Huon 11:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the double redirects. I attempted to make a start at renewing them. But hoped I could get some help with that, so left then. Thanks. Chavatshimshon 11:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I was asked to comment by IZAK. I must agree that renaming articles can be problematic without adherence to Wikipedia process (via WP:RFPM), unless it's blindingly obvious that the move is uncontroversial (e.g. a misspelling or a low-traffic page). Many new users fall into this trap (including myself in some long distant past) and are mauled by more experienced users who suddenly feel a need to tidy up after the newcomers. Don't worry. I would propose, though, that "Jewry" implies the Jews of certain countries form a unit, while "Jews" does not imply such a unit. I have very negative vibes with the term "World Jewry". Wikipedia has managed to live with "[Country] Jews" for the last several years, and it will take significant consensus to change this now. I will move back the pages in question so the double redirects are not an issue anymore. JFW | T@lk 13:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Round two. Whilst it may have been like that for a number of years, it is bad grammar. Your theory about the 'Jewry unit' should be reapplied quite simply that Jewry is the word of choice grammatical. Anyways, how are we going to go about discussing this in he future? Chavatshimshon 15:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

To me, the best place to continue the discussion would be a central location like Wikipedia: WikiProject Judaism. The relevant articles' talk pages should include a link to the central discussion. --Huon 21:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi and welcome, Chavatshimshon. To answer your Q. above, every article, every project and every user have talk page. It is a good practice to use talk if you are planning to make vast controversial changes. Oh, and there are also Wikipedia:Straw polls, but many consider them evil and stupid. BTW, I like the titles those way they are - but I am not a native speaker. Cheers. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Jewry: My two cents

Since I'm not a native speaker, I can't tell whether "Jewry" has any undesirable connotation. Concerning the different countries' articles, I don't see any grammatical problems with titles like "British Jews" or "French Jews", so if others object to "Jewry", why not take those? According to the Jews by country list, most articles now follow such a naming convention anyway. On the other hand, the World Jewish Population Survey of 2002 (cited here) talks of "world Jewry", so we can't be too far wrong when using that term, either. I'll add a comment at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion, but I don't feel strong enough about the subject to offer an opinion either way. --Huon 22:14, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re

I cannot see why it would be bad grammar (especially since it would imply that the larger part of wikipedia users involved in the project are incapable of using proper English, whereas you are not). The term "Jewry", as used as it may be, is not used as much (not by far). I'm sorry, but it looks to me like a mere fork in what is one of the best-covered subject areas in the entire wikipedia. Dahn 23:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

It certainly is a very well covered area. I am wanting to make these changes after nearly three years of having noticed it, I've not been much of an editor until now. Put it this way, the term is definitely no a good encyclopedic title. I ask you reconsider your view from a vantage point. I am not belittling the longstanding editors grammatical abilities. Clearly the way things work here on wikipedia permits these blind spots... meaning the way things start is the way things continue and issues such as this stark point aren't even obvious anymore. Think about this, other ethnic groups on wikipedia as 'people/s' such as 'Roma people', which just wouldn't work here; ' 'Jewish People' just wouldn't sound right, so why do we have the current titles we have now? The answer to the JewWatch phenomenon which caused a backlash and thus Jewish people redirects to Jew, where as Roma People does not lead to gypsy etc. World Jewry is the most common term outside of wikipedia to describe jewish population content. Chavatshimshon 23:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

About the wikipedia conventions: you will note that "people" occurs only rarely (the "Roma people" can be explained by the fact that "Roma" is a potentially ambiguous plural) - in general, usage favours "Hungarians", "Americans", "Italians" (or "French", "Portuguese" etc). As I have said before: "x Jews" refers to individuals, and the categories that you want to call "Jewry" are already covered by "Jewish [x nation] history" categories. Also, categories were also designed to cover the religious meaning of the term (and "Christian people" et al are not valid alternatives). Furthermore: the potentially negative use of "Jew" does not entitle any change in usage (the term is supposedly "derogatory" because there are cretins out there who believe that all things Jewish are degenerate etc. - it does not mean that the term has come to mean "degenerate"); the negative usage of the term is not even that expanded over all other alternatives (I believe that "Jewry" was distorted in the same way for much of the term's existence); the reason why "Gypsy" does not redirect to "Roma people" is purely technical - it used to, but then somebody though that other things in the same lexical family are currently as much in use as the term of origin (and the term of origin, unlike "Jew", has since become a mere alternative for its original meaning). And I still do not get why you believe that the term is grammatically incorrect.

About the generic convention: I think your assessment about the term's predominance is subjective, and as yet unproven. Dahn 23:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do not use the term "ultra-orthodox"

Hi Chavatshimshon: Please do not use the term "ultra-orthodox Jews" because a consensus was reached a number of years ago on Wikipedia not you use this term since it may have negative connotations. The accepted terminlogy is either Haredi Judaism or Hasidic Judaism (which is part of Haredi Judaism) or simply Orthodox Judaism which includes all shades of Orthodoxy (including the "Haredi/Ultra-Orthodox"). Thanks a lot. Gut Shabbos. IZAK 13:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Modi'in Illit

As I said in the edit summary, El'ad is faster-growing than Modi'in Illit (although neither are cities). Also this is based solely on provisional data from the past 2 years. Taking into account data from the past 6 years, Modi'in-Maccabim-Re'ut, Betar Illit, Bet Shemesh, and Ma'ale Adummim, are all faster-growing than Modi'in Illit. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 09:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:‎EliezerWaldenberg.jpg

Oh come on, it's not PD - it's straight from the JPost! What's the point of saying you're the creator of the work, when it's obviously not so? - crz crztalk 12:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

No! They don't own the copyright! Whoever took the picture does! We cannot have these. I am deleting it outright as a blatant copyright violation. Please don't do that anymore. Thank you. - crz crztalk 12:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

No no, Shimsh. This is a question of wikimedia foundation policy which is stricter than US copyright law, of protecting the foundation from a lawsuit - because that is the biggest threat to this project. A "secretary at the JPost told me it's ok" defense is not going to cut it. They don't own the copyright - so there's no point in asking them permission to use it. Also, please don't replace old content with new content in article, as you did in Ribbit - at the very least, leave a disambiguation. (I'm taking care of it right now.) - crz crztalk 12:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Getting help on Wikipedia

Hi Chavat: you asked me the follwing a few days ago and I just wanted to be sure you saw and go the information I supplied: You asked: "what did i do wrong? why wenever i put a pic up, it wont show? Chavatshimshon 12:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)" and I replied: Hmmm, have you read Wikipedia:Images AND Wikipedia:Uploading images AND Wikipedia:Media thoroughly? For easy assistance, go to the Wikipedia:Help desk and you can also place {{helpme}} ( {{helpme}} ) on your talkpage, and a helper will visit you there ASAP! All the best, IZAK 12:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC) Be well and stay in touch. IZAK 12:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

How can you categorize your own article? Korean G-7
--User:Kingj123 04:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hebron 1929

Sorry, but you have to cite a verifiable published source for what you insert into articles. Writing what you remember from a museum is against Wikipedia rules (WP:RS and WP:V), and anyway museums like that promote political agendas and are not just there to tell the facts. As for the facts, even though the whole incident might have taken 8 hours (depending on what you call the start and the finish), the part which involved actually killing and raping only took 2-3 hours. Nobody was "raped for 8 hours" - that sounds like a supermarket tabloid. The number of Arabs who died was 9, most (or all) killed by Cafferetta and a few of his Arab police who helped him. --Zero^talk 12:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

ok i have allot of homework. Thanks for the tips and info. Chavatshimshon 14:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vote

Please vote 67.70.71.160 10:25, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Kevin123.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Kevin123.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. _JD^talk 12:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nav boxes

Sure! The problem was that the nav boxes are at User:Renesis13/nav not User talk:Renesis13/nav. The links are specifically to my user space anyway and wouldn't work for yours. I'll create the page the way you'll need it at User:Chavatshimshon/nav and then you can tweak it how you need it and include it the way you already have on your user page. -- Renesis (talk) 02:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Done -- go ahead and go to User:Chavatshimshon/nav to edit it! Hope I've helped. -- Renesis (talk) 02:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What are you trying to say?

Hi Chavat, I am reposting my replies to you here from my talk page, please continue the discussion on my talk page to centralize it. Thanks. IZAK 02:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is Modern Orthodox Judaism not a section in the Orthodox Judaism? People are thinking up new casts every day. If we put these two under one article, all the 'new' ones will never be lent any credence, which is the way it should be. Accepting the veracity of 'Modern Orthodox' identity will just lead to more identities etc. As far as I'm concerned there is frum and frei and blurring the line weakens both. Chavatshimshon 01:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Chavat: I haven't looked at the Orthodox Judaism article in a while, but when last I saw it, over a year ago or more, it did state that Modern Orthodox Judaism is one of the parts of Orthodox Judaism. On the other hand, to combine everything into one article, would make it too long (as I am sure you are not sayong this either.) Ther have been a few very "fafrumte" editors wielding hatchets recently, so I am not sure what they have been up to either. Let me take a look. IZAK 01:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
• Hi again, Chavat: I just looked and it's still there, so I am not sure what your complaint is. See Orthodox Judaism#Subgroups where it clearly states: "...These groups, broadly, comprise Modern Orthodox Judaism and Haredi Judaism, the latter comprising Hasidic Judaism and Litvish (non-Hasidic Hareidi) Judaism" and it goes on to explain the differences. And again in the section Orthodox Judaism#The development of Orthodoxy there is ample description of the place of Modern Orthodoxy. Further, in the section Orthodox Judaism#Orthodox organizations and groups it specifies which rabbinic organizations belong to Modern Orthodoxy etc. If anything, the article lacks more detailed information about the Haredi Judaism and Hasidic Judaism groups, so I am left puzzled by whatexactly your comments mean and what you are complaining about. Please let me know. IZAK 02:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I think I see...

Hi Chavat: Now I get it, you are in England, where Modern Orthodoxy does not get any coinage in the realm of the "Frum", however, in the USA, Modern Orthodox Judaism (calls itself as such) and is a huge movement very different to Haredi Judaism and Hasidic Judaism. Remember, this is an encyclopedia and we need to follow the known words and terms. We can't come here and start bandying around words like "frum" and "frei" (especially if the word "frei" is actually a serious slur towards non-religious Jews) as it's not all "black and white." Try to be patient and read up more on the subjects via their articles to give you some idea. That's why you ran into a problem when you started changing the names of articles on Wikipedia to "Jewry this" and "Jewry that" without realizing that it is not the way these subjects are viewed academically -- you need to get used to the idea that Wikipedia is not a Bais medrash or yeshiva and we can't just lump the world into perspectives that only "frum" people use -- Wikipedia is an international and universal encyclopedia that must make sense to all of humanity and not just to the frum oilem that will not be using Wikipedia in any case because it's assur to use or be on the Internet. Now I think I understand you, and I hope you are understanding me. IZAK 02:21, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I Think im doing ok, I dont have to many questions yet but ty and if I need anything I'll let you know, its good to knnow some people are out their willing to help us that are new if you have any suggestions for me just let me know thanks again, Chad19r 5:37, 30 November 2006

[edit] Thanks for your consideration and comments

Thanks for your consideration, suggestions, and words of support at my RfA, which did succeed. I hope to take the words of support and concern as well as examples from fellow editors and administrators as I learn the ropes. Any further words of advice are much appreciated! Thanks again, and forgive my use of this dorky message box :) -- Renesis (talk) 01:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC) P.S. - I hope you got the nav box thing all worked out! Let me know if you have any other questions, as I'm always happy to help.

[edit] Hello

I am new. I am not sure whats out of line in terms of posting. Wow cool you are a Jew right? You religiouse at all? anyway if u want u can chat to me on msn too. robin.hughes@ihug.co.nz is my msn address. Umm i'm new here so if u can give me any guidelines to opropriate posting it would be good.

Thanx cya

Did u get my last message alright?

[edit] Welcome message

Hi, it's great that you're welcoming users, but it is confusing that the message includes my name. It's easy to do a new one yourself from a template, just type (or copy and paste) the following:

{{subst:user:Kukini/Welcome}}

Typing this on the user's talk page will expand to the table and will include your user name in the heading. Regards LittleOldMe 12:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A little help.

Thank you, Chavat-san, for your welcome and your tips. I find it quite difficult to understand many of the guidelines, though. I have a question on images: I am an amateur manga artist and right now there is a debate about an image at the Lolicon article. If I suggest they use one of my images, is that within the Wikipedia guidelines? Can it be done? And I heard that you have to give all rights to Wikipedia, how is that done? (If it's not a problem, could you explain it as simple as posible?) Doomo Arigatou! Sakura Miyamoto 22:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another question

How did you make your userboxes? They are nice, and I would to know how to make them. ^^ Sakura Miyamoto 23:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Japan or not Japan

My dad says I'm as good as, hehehe. I'm Mexican. But I love Japanese culture due to my best friend: she is a born Japanese girl. We met some 15 years ago and she made me love Japan and all of it's culture. ^0^ In fact I am wanting to participate in the Project Japan and in the Project Anime, so I am reseaching all I can about those two. I am, in fact, going to see if they have a Geisha article as well as a Kimono one. ^0^Life is the greatest miracle... 23:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds interesting, helping to translate anime articles ^^ Byt he way the userboxes are great!! *.* did you put the first two or soemthing? ._. If so, thanks! ^^

Life is the greatest miracle... 00:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Man

Thanx for that. My line of business. mmmm I do a few different things. Basically I am an ENtrepreneur thats a bit short on cash. I am quite into the Environment so a lot of my work is that way focused. Basically i improve things whether it be through new invention, New systems or just improving old ones. At the momment I am designing a new vehicle plus i am part way through building a proto type to a bicycle trailer. Don't want to say too much here cos someone might read it and steal my ideas. I also am writing a book called the Wanderer. Its inspired by my own life but is definately science fiction / fantasy. I suppose its about a guy who has a pretty tough life and is never satisfied but always searching for meaning.

ooooooops sorry about the double up

--Rainbow Warrior 23:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey Man

Hi again,

I am an Entrepreneur. Basically I improve things and invent things. Most Entrepreneurs have money and just invest money in opportunities. I not having money mostly make up for it by doing most of the work and design myself. Because of the money issue i can't carry out most of my ideas. I am working on a new environmentally friendly vehicle that i believe will be way better then cars in pretty much every way. I also am building a proto type bicycle trailor. Original idea was that i could use if for landscaping. As u can imagine when someone like me gets designing its no ordinary trailor and takes full advantage of the loop holes in the law. I can sleep on it and pretty much take it anywhere i can take my bike. Its at least the size of a car boot. The lid is bigger. I have spent some time trying to fix the problems with the myers brigg personality test. I am going to set up a company that works with companies to improve there performance and with employees to help them develope faster and find jobs that most suit them and pay the best. I will spend time with each of my clients helping them self develope to fill whatever role they are recquired to or want to fill. I will do this by helping them work on there personality. Because i believe that skills are easily picked up if u have the right personality. But u can't pick up the right personality by having skills. I believe personality is the fastest way for people to move up the corporate ladder.

Anything that enoys me. I straight away want to know why. Before long i have figured out a solution and then ofcourse i have to file it to a latter date. That great day when i have money.

I want to make a music video to promote the Environment. I also have ideas for a movie and a computer game with an online version.

anyway probably boring u.

which book in the old testament is your favourite?

cya around

--Rainbow Warrior 23:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up

Hi,

You tagged a page I wrote (Michael Ware) for clean-up. I have done some editing and wanted to know whether it was now suitably Wikified. (It's my first -- and only -- Wiki page, so any guidance is much appreciated.)

Thanks!

CLDelmar 00:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Online

1. Okay, I'll make the pages and do the coding for you in a few minutes. Then I'll come back and tell you how you change it and such. 2. See [1]. Nishkid64 01:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the Welcome

Chavatshimshon, thanks for the warm welcome. I hope to make many contributions here at Wikipedia! Paradigm Shift 02:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Change

Note: this comment is part of a synchronised thread. You can reply by clicking the [edit] link next to the comment's heading, or following this link. To ensure that you can see any further responses I make, add this page to your watchlist. Once you have replied, feel free to remove this boilerplate.

Hi, i would like to change my username. Please can you advise how?! Thanks! Chavatshimshon 22:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Go to Wikipedia:Changing username. Follow the instructions there. Karl Dickman ^talk 02:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Status

Okay, I added the status thing. Whenever you want to change your status, go to User:Chavatshimshon/Status2. It says {{User:Chavatshimshon/StatusChange2|online}}. Where it says online, you can change to "offline" or "away". You just have to edit that page, and it will show up on your user page and user talk page. If you have any questions, message me. Nishkid64 02:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it on your user talk page? Maybe, you're confusing it with the "leave a new message" orange thing? I don't know, but I really can't find any problems. Try logging in and out or clearing your cache. Nishkid64 03:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More cleaning up

I've re-written the Michael Ware page again, please let me know if it's getting closer to Wiki-ness.

Also, I don't know his DOB so I had to leave that blank -- should I remove the placemarker?

CLDelmar 03:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changing username

Got your message. Sorry, I do not think it's in my power (don't know about stewardship), at least I've never done it, and you wouldn't want me to practice on you. Please follow the directions at Wikipedia:Changing username. Thanks! ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 09:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello again

Due to the limited ability of humans to see the obviouse I know that there is plenty of work for me out there. This is my only job although i do do a bit of landscaping and gardening on the side. But again it is with a view long term to harness an opportunity that most people don't even realise exists. It is possible to make a large amount out of the realistate game. A lot more then has been previousely premediatatively done without using speculative gambling. I can't be bothered getting paid a wage. I would prefer to invest my time and effort in things that will change the world or give me the money to do projects to change the world. Although i must admit they are always both to some degree or other.

I do what i enjoy and try and get paid for it. My lifestyle is unimaginable by the general population and yet i live on a pittance. Money matters nothing to me. I am free and generouse and yet how. I have so little to start with.

To understand what i am talking about read about John Britten or one of the other inventors or innovators. Many of them lived extroadinary lives. Were free with money but never really had any. Are these not our heroes? why not follow in there footsteps. Why not live and be the extroadinary. If u think big u will be big. Think small and you will be small. I only need to get one idea to work and i'll be leaving much of my fathers generation behind. My uncle is a very successful businessmen an opportunity fell upon him. with one idea only i could have surpassed him in wealth. But why when i care so little about money. Because i had a hero called Robin Hood who took money from the rich and gave it to the poor. My hero soon became not good enough for me. I decided to improve life for almost everyone, improve the environment, improve health, reduce stress. The only thing is that this involves disruptive technology. So unviolently I can make the world a better place and become rich a side effect i don't really care for. And so wats with the money if i don't really care about it as i claim. Well I can help people and spend it helping the environment. In stead of adding my efforts I can move to then multiplication and then exponential through the use of education. Then i start to do more and voluntary and with time my share in the world market will diminish as others rise to match it and if done right the poor will rise up and be able to live comfortable lives. Using godly principles to guide there lifes and utilising there many talents.

Of course this being the ideal, the reality is a lot more stark. Many people don't like change and I could just be another of those casualties. Maybe i'll be a martyr or maybe i'll survive till the return of Jesus Christ the Jew that changed the world and will change it again at his return.

--Rainbow Warrior 10:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please help

please help me in the contribution of a new article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/interreality

i am not familiar with the Wikipedia habits and procedures, so i seem to have made mistakes in my text and comments, but at the moment i have screened the text and summitted all requested sources and attributes. i try to learn the procedures as fast and much as possible

so, how can i asked the judges to look again to their comments and to judging again on the new information.

if you like, you can contact me. thanks!--Rokswijk 10:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi there

Thanks for the welcome message!Misspenny 01:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help

How can you categorise your own article? Korean G-7 I think I need help.

[edit] Deleted Userboxes

Hello Chavatshimshon. I've deleted Userboxes in accordance with the following pages and discussions:

• Wikipedia:Avoid self-references
• Wikipedia:Cross-namespace redirects
• Requests for deletion
  • March 2006
  • May 2006
  • July 2006
  • 05 August 2006
  • 16 August 2006
• Deletion review
  • April 2006
  • May 2006
• Criteria for speedy deletion G4 ("Recreation of deleted material").

For additional reasons, please see the relevant deletion log entry (as well as the entries for 'Userbox'). Please don't recreate the page without consensus to do so. Thanks. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 08:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Howdy

I just noticed that you are using my welcome page for your welcomes. You are doing a lot of hard work in here with that. I personally believe that welcomes that are detailed like that allow new users the opportunity to choose to edit constructively. Keep up the good work! - Kukini 08:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] That userbox....

Hello Chavatshimshon,

I just wanted to say that I've fixed your userbox. If there is a problem, please don't hesitate to "call" me!

Have a nice day,

Booksworm Hello? Anyone home? Vote! Vote! 10:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S. If ever you need help and I'm not around/online add {{helpme}} to your talk page, followed by a small sentence describing your problem that needs solving, Booksworm Hello? Anyone home? Vote! Vote! 10:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

---

Changed the userbox appropriately. I can "speak" English so well because I live in a very Anglophone environment and I lived in the US of A for three years

Hope this is what you wanted,

Booksworm Hello? Anyone home? Vote! Vote! 17:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Quitsmoking1.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:Quitsmoking1.JPG. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. _JD^talk 21:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quiting smoking userbox

Note: this comment is part of a synchronised thread. You can reply by clicking the [edit] link next to the comment's heading, or following this link. To ensure that you can see any further responses I make, add this page to your watchlist. Once you have replied, feel free to remove this boilerplate.

Hi, i saw that you fixed it before. I'de like to ask you what I'm doing wrong when i upload images, I'm usealy just to read up the wikipage on it, but i have and i dont know what i'm doing wrong. I often upload an image and see that it is not showing up, instead a red link shows. This happens almost always. Now I squared up the image for the Qsmoking userbox and its not showing up. Please tell me, thanks. Chavatshimshon 04:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

The problem may your browser. If you purge the page cache (by hitting CTRL+F5 in Internet Explorer or hold the SHIFT key while clicking reload in Firefox), that may solve the problem.

If the problem persists, and you are certain that you have the right link, it is probably because the Wikimedia servers are having trouble updating the site. In that case, just give it some time and the problem should rectify itself.

Also remember that it is not enough to specify licensing information from an image; you must also state its source, either by providing a hyperlink or tagging it as an image you made.

Cheers and good luck, Karl Dickman ^talk 23:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User page help

I strongly recommend contacting User:Sango123 if you are seeking help with your user page, although yours is pretty darn cool! - Kukini 01:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italian

My Italian probably isn't good enough for translations. Amoruso 03:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safiyya bint Huyayy

Note: this comment is part of a synchronised thread. You can reply by clicking the [edit] link next to the comment's heading, or following this link. To ensure that you can see any further responses I make, add this page to your watchlist. Once you have replied, feel free to remove this boilerplate.

Having trouble with continuous reverts on the above mentioned article. This woman clearly was a concubine of Mohammad, as clearly depicted by the content of the article itself, one paragraph it titles 'her capture' etc. Please advise. Chavatshimshon 13:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello. I have posted my opinion on the issue at Talk:Safiyya bint Huyayy. Based on my reading of the article, I am forced to disagree with your interpretation; I explain my views in some detail on the talkpage. As I have not read the Quran or any comparable piece of Islamic literature, this really isn't my area of expertise, so feel free to correct me with citations from those sources.

Please respond to my comments at the article's talkpage, so that everyone else involved in the dispute can critique them.

A closing FYI: reversions of the sort that were done to your edits are not 'vandalism', as defined by Wikipedia policy. The editors who reverted you may have been doing so to push a point of view, or for any number of non-vandalistic reasons. Under our definition of vandalism, an edit constitutes vandalism only when it was made with the sole intent to deface the site.

Cheers, Karl Dickman ^talk 03:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, you did indeed check a dictionary as i proposed and you have made four good points. I make one point which as you will hopefully agree resolves all four of yours. I therefor am re-including the term for the second time in 24 hours.

• The article below describes the massacre of her family, whole tribe by Mohammad and his men. It is taken from the Banu Nadir article, some of it is even in this article. My one point is that is impossible to call her "marriage" a choice anything other than an attempt to save her life, her captor killed her husband, her whole family, tribe, not only did she accept his version of Godly events she as his slave no doubt did anything he wished, from cooking or cleaning to fellatio. Looking back from a very different more civilised world we can acknowledge that her so called 'conversion' and 'marriage' does not rob her of her title concubine.

Battle of Khaybar: 627-629

After their expulsion from Medina, Banu Nadir, along with the other Jews living in Khaybar, understood that Muhammad might attack them again. The Nadir chief Huyayy ibn Akhtab together with his son joined the Meccans and Bedouins besieging Medina during the Battle of the Trench. Huyayy ibn Akhtab attempted to recruit Banu Qurayza within Medina to fight against the Muslims. Both of them were killed by order of Muhammad alongside the men of the Banu Qurayza.^[1]

Muhammad and his followers attacked Khaybar in May 629. Although the Jews put up fierce resistance, the lack of central command and their unpreparedness for an extended siege sealed the outcome of the battle in favor of the Muslims. When all but two fortresses were captured, the Jews managed to negotiate their surrender. The terms required them to hand over one-half of the annual produce to the Muslims, while the land itself became the collective property of the Muslim state.^[2]

The agreement, however, did not cover the Banu Nadir tribe. Muslims killed all the men of Banu Nadir and divided the women among themselves.^[2] Safiyya bint Huyayy was the daughter of the killed Banu Nadir chief Huyayy ibn Akhtab and widow of Kinana ibn al-Rabi, the treasurer of Banu Nadir, whom Muhammad's followers first tortured, demanding that he reveal the location of the tribe’s hidden treasures, and then killed.^[3] Muhammad took for wife Safiyya bint Huyayy.

I made these last words bold just to show how ambiguous it is to say 'took for wife'... Might I also say... in the middle ages too, women in Europe were abducted and held as concubines, and yes it was considered normal then and yes they had the word concubine then too but didnt use it, so what?! Therefore in the case of an article about a european women abducted in the middle ages, whether she apparently subscribed to her captor's religion or not, the term concubine should be mentioned.

Chavatshimshon 04:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, its not over yet. Jossi is a sensible person and will realise, as you will too, the idea he presented was that it is sources that are required to simply rephrase wife with concubine or vis virsa, or to add it ...is a stark mistake. Sources are not requisite... for adapting/improving rephrasing, titles, status or names on an encyclopedic standard. Titles of this sort in this case quite simply require reading the excising content of the article... and from this article one is easily afforded to conclude she was a concubine of Mohammad as well later wife of sorts. If I would have a wider knowledge of WP Guidelines I'm sure I could furnish links to these rules. Also, it may be she got on with life and didn't try to poison him, unlike a certain other Jewish concubine of his, but then that's called Stockholm syndrome, not tell me was Natascha Kampusch her captor's concubine or wife? She thinks she was. I hope this extends your view at this point. FrummerThanThou 07:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Daniel575

While I thank you for your message, I cannot agree with you. By going over his contributions, I did see how much he has done for Wikipedia. However, all that was erased when he started accusing people of anti-semitism. The guy has been banned many times and was in many edit wars. He was disrespectful and acted very immature. For those reasons, I feel he had "nothing intelligent to say." Rascism, ethnocentrism, anti-semetism, etc., has no place in Wikipedia. Unfortunately, he is one of those individuals that subscribes to hate. To me, it is unbelievable that people are actually defending him, but in that sense, I guess they are able to see through his rage and see that maybe he isn't all that bad. Personally, I feel his hatred towards others will not change anytime soon so I hope he doesn't come back. I emailed him personally telling him how I felt about his words and how hurtful they can be to others. I hope he read and understood my words. Anyway, thank you for your message. MetsFan76 05:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, I am very passionate about it. Just as he is passionate about his ethnocentric behavior, I am the opposite and passionate about preventing the spread of any kind of acts such as his. They are destructive and hurtful and I think, in the end, it just reflected poorly on him. MetsFan76 05:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your One-Sidedeness

I dont know if this is directly from you or indirectly from you, but you have been approving many inaccurate articles (which i can point out all the inaccuracies if you ask me. For example Nakhichevan, it was never foreign-ruled, that is Armenian territory, Armenian people, Armenian culture all until the extermination of the Armenians in 1915. So please reconscider which article you are going to approve next time, no matter what the subject, race, or peoples. Also try making all the Turkish articles neutral.

[edit] About Your Reply

i am very thankful that you replied, and took time to answer my concerns (despite all your other works). But there is no way to put this kindly. I am being discriminated against by KhoiKoi or KhoiKhoi. Whenever i edit or write a new text or article, i provide all of the information from which i recieved the facts and from (the Bibliogrpahy Page now known as the Works Cited Page) However, he deletes these articles that i worked hard to write. So, when i recieved a message from him he said if you decide to edit or rewrite an article again you will be banned. I was astonished and needless to say i was extremely upset, because this was factual information i didnt pull it out of my ass. When i saw his home page, i saw he was a proud Azeri, Turk, and part of many Muslim and Azeri-Turkic projects. At that moment i knew what was happening, he was trying to prevent the people that visit and use wikipedia.org as a resource for there projects, reports, and etc., to see the truth about the Turks, Azeri's, and what really happened to the Armenians, and our lands (a long political issue with deep roots, that i do not want to get you involved with). So just to tell you keep an eye out for him, he is deleting what i write, and claims it to be false, when i provide the information to him, the books i got it from, the interview with professors, and etc.

[edit] Title Paragraph

Title Paragraph

Hi, I would like to write up a new article as wikipedia:titleparagraphs. I'd appreciate your assistance. Title paragraphs often called 'opening' paragraphs in the literary world are very important to seize readers’ attention and encourage them to read on. Title paragraphcs need to be written in a surmising style in as few concise but detailed sentences as possible.

• What you are looking for exists already, and can be found in our guidance on the lead paragraph. Steve block Talk 13:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Status

Okay, I fixed it. Just go User:FrummerThanThou/Status2 to change it from online to offline or busy. Nishkid64 20:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The changes you wanted...

Hello "FrummerThanThou",

I would like to say that I have modified everything you asked me to do on your userpage (including the extra picture links that weren't linking anywhere!). If you need anything else, please contact me. I am here for that. All images have been linked correctly and now link to their corresponding pages,

Remember that I am here to help you when you need it,

Booksworm Talk to me! 21:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I'm new with Wikipedia, though I have often used it before to get a jump start on research projects. I recently added the article on "Organizational empowerment." I notice that the graphic was deleted and I was just wondering if you could clarify for me exactly why. That was a graphic from the Microsoft clipart free online site. It had been altered significantly by me. My guess is that it was about 50% changed. Is that not allowed?
Thanks for your help.
Gregory S. Waddell 05:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] William Sledd

Actually, you might wish to speak to the admin who did the blocking. I can unblock the title, but I don't wish to go against another admin. Personally, I feel that if you can contribute a meaningful contribution about the subject, you sure have my support. - Lucky 6.9 06:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• On my way. Thanks for asking. - Lucky 6.9 07:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Been expanding the article. Would be nice if William would post when he says he will, I want to know what happened in LA.--Arislan 07:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RGF

Hi FrummerThanThou, Thanks for your note. I've taken a look at a number of your recent edits - and your new noticebox - and had a look at WP:LEAD. Let me explain first why I've highlighted that quoted paragraph in the way I've done it.

There are a number of people who have strong views on this topic that are not supported by the numerous facts I've lined up in my article, and insist on reverting sections of Russian Ground Forces that disparage the current state of the Russian forces, even when the criticism comes from well-respected Russian commentators themselves. You'll see if you take a look at the article's talk page that I've had accusations of 'opinions rather than facts - lots of money has been spend on the Ground Forces and their quality has improved'. This quote I've been lucky enough to find refutes that assertion and comes from a long-time Russian military journalist - a well respected, verifiable source.

The other thing about that quote is that it summarises the overall article quite well. I could not really do better with my own words - I'm a New Zealander with no real knowledge of the Russian language - and so I feel it belongs in the lead. The lead is two paragraphs, well within the '1-4' quoted.

The reason I reverted your edit without comment or warning was that you did not rewrite the surrounding paragraphes to fit the removal and created an orphan section for 'Criticisms' when criticisms and other analysis, positive and negative, is spread across the whole piece.

I'd be keen to understand what exact difficulty you have with the lead as it stands (I will go back and re-read WP:LEAD and your note, because I don't have it in front of me), but I would like to come to some compromise that allows this expert's writing to form a part of the intro, deterring potential ideologues. I'd very much appreciate your thoughts in this regard.

Greetings from Down Under, Buckshot06 08:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

PS. Having reread your note, I've just counted the characters in the article and after a small change it seems to abide by WP:LEAD, as it is (now) three paragraphs, which accords with the three to four para guideline, being 30-35,000 charas long, depending on whether you include spaces. The paragraph is intended to stick out as it is a quote, and in quote style. I believe it is well 'nested' between the paragraphs above, the contents box, and the military unit box. Cheers Buckshot06 08:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parakramabahu

Hi Fummer. Thanks for pointing out the number of Peacock Phrases I'd used in my Parakramabahu article. I've tried to remove them all but would appreciate if you let me know if there's any that in your opinion I've missed. Please let me know on my talk page.DocSubster 12:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

That's cool Frummer. Thanks!DocSubster 14:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Francis Gifford

Thanks for pointing that out. It was no trouble to fix, it just needed another pair of eyes to highlight it. Regards. —Moondyne 13:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safiyya

Frummer, I've read the discussion and have to decline your invitation to comment as I know nothing about the subject. Clearly the word "concubine" has a certain connotation which, without knowing the subject properly may give added weight to one side of the argument or the other. If I had to give an opinion, I would say don't use the term because it does not seem to be used widely elsewhere (from citations provided). However, that opinion may be giving too much weight to "certain connotations" (whatever they are). Sorry for my gibberish response (I ended up commenting but saying very little!) Regards —Moondyne 13:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to echo these remarks. I am almost completely unfamiliar with the individual, so I can provide little to no information. --Joe Sewell 20:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LEAD

Greetings. I really like {{LEAD}}. (By the way, if you type {tl|LEAD}}, it makes a link to the template -- "tl" stands for "template link".) I think I would remove the link to "abridged", and maybe to "opening paragraph" as well. The link at "lead paragraph guidelines" is very useful, and you want it prominent, so removing the less-important links might help. Now the only question is, should this be put on article pages or on article talk pages? I think it would be better on article talk pages, but I'm not certain. You might want to ask at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) to get feedback from others. All the best, – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 17:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safiyya bint Huyay

Looked at the article, but I'm way over my depth there and couldn't argue intelligently with anybody because everybody else knew more than me. Thanks for the chance to try, though. Gzuckier 21:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... i would say neither, she was a captive, wasn't she? In my understanding, based on the lead of the concubine article, i understood the term to mean "marriage without a contract". Well, in my view, marriage denotes voluntarily, so she would be "involuntarily 'married' without a contract", and hence, it does not meat the criteria of being either wife nor concubine. Further, i find the whole issue irrelevant, since the term concubinage does not even exist withing Islam, we have Nikah (permanent marriage), Nikah Mut'ah (temporary marriage) and Ma malakat aymanukum (captive). --Striver 05:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:WikiProject Lead

I think it's a great idea. I'm definitely interested. =) Nishkid64 22:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muhammad after the conquest of Mecca

Hi. regarding press coverage for Muhammad after the conquest of Mecca, were and when did you find it? A link? --Striver 03:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah. I see.--Striver 03:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:LEAD

You recently added this template to a bunch of pages, with no edit summary and no rationale. I'm going to revert this change on a number of those pages, since it's being used inappropriately. I refer you to WP:LEAD#Length where it lays out some very clear guidelines on what the length of a lead section should be, relative to the rest of the article. Your application of this template is in contravention of those established guidelines, and so it shall be removed.

The goal a lot of interested editors aim for when writing a lead seciton, is to create a concise, stand-alone description of the topic at hand. The idea is that the lead can be informative and self-contained, thus not requiring the reader to read the whole article to get the basic points. Lengthy subjects such as Microsoft and Akira merit more lengthy lead sections so that the basic points can be adequately covered.

Further, I offer some advice: wandering around the encyclopedia and tagging seemingly random articles with this template, does not result in a better encyclopedia. If you find the lead section of an article to be too lengthy, just go ahead and fix it! Or at the very least, use the Talk page to explain the rationale for plopping down a maintenance template on the article, which is the Wikipedian's equivalent of beating an article with a baseball bat, when a little bit of TLC would be more beneficial. Thanks. -/- Warren 04:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Megadeth Featured article candidate vote

Hi, thanks for voting on the Megadeth Featured article candidate page. Can you explain what you mean by "not universally rocking"? In order to improve FAC's, we need "a specific rationale that can be addressed". Also, the lead size is in accordance with WP:LEAD, and as stated on the Megadeth FAC page, is roughly the same size as many other FA's. Skeletor2112 06:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Um, your opinion of Megadeth or heavy metal music or whatever, should not have anything to do with the quality of the article, or it reaching featured article status. Just because you don't like the band, or their (perceived) views, or their style of music, doesn't mean that millions of other people around the world don't like them. With more than 20 million albums sold worldwide, they are certainly notable, regardless of your personal feelings about heavy metal music.

You said here "I'm dont think it a topic to be featured." What does the topic have to do with anything? If someone went through and objected to a well written, well cited article relating to Judaism, becasue they were Anti-semetic, would you want those votes to count? What if I were to object to all dance music FAC's because I think dance music sucks? Check out Wikipedia:What is a featured article? for FA criteria, and what FA votes should be based on.

And as far as the lead, it does meet WP:LEAD standards, as I said on the FAC page. How is it any longer than the Battle of Dien Bien Phu page, which you voted to support 15 minutes after tagging Megadeth as too long? Skeletor2112 06:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sledd restoration

William Sledd restored. Knock yourself out. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 06:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oil phase-out in Sweden

Naturally I share your interest in the topic; it would be good to see it as a Featured Article one day. I've posted a couple of comments on the Peer Review page. Gralo 12:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noahide Laws

I see you are a linguist. Would you be interested in translating a small amount of the above article? Your input would be very much appreciated, there is allot of google traffic to that article. FrummerThanThou 06:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I'm afraid my quality as a linguist is irrelevant to your request. Being a linguist means I'm interested in languages and in the science of linguistics; not that I am able, or willing, to translate just anything in any language! I'm sure many readers interested by your subject will be able to translate the English version of that article into the languages they know. They will be more competent than myself in religious topics; personally I have no particular interest in that domain. Good luck. -- Womtelo 21:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit summaries

I would appreciate it if you can use the edit sumamary to describe your edits. Than you. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muhammad

I actually am not qualified to make much contribution. But I believe the article is too long and can be fixed by creating other articles which go into more detail. In Peace.--Halaqah 01:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Megadeth FAC

I'm sorry but I don't think changing your comment [2] that way is allowed, as it might put others' comments in a different context. Please read our talk page guidelines and consider striking your comment instead. Thank you. Michaelas10 (Talk) 15:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcomebot

I created the welcomebot, I need to appeal it though. I think it would be a great help to wikipedia. Sheogarath 15:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Bruno

Bruno should not be the Ali G character. It's a popular name and it belongs to many other Wikipedia articles, so it should redirect to the disambiguation page. The Ali G character should link to Bruno (Sacha Baron Cohen character), since it is more appropriate. Nishkid64 17:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BJaON?

You struck me as the kind of person who liked the Bad Jokes page when it existed.

I wrote an essay on why it should be brought back for the second time.

The first time they blocked me.

. . . . . . yes, very, very random of me.

Just curious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SKC101 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Thanks for the Barnstar!

Wow! Thank you very much for my first Barnstar! I am honored, and glad that I could help cut that Gordian knot regarding the marital status of Safiyya bint Huyayy. Askari Mark (Talk) 20:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

pleasure, I'll be keeping in eye out to be awarding more for great contributions! FrummerThanThou 20:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please read WP:LEAD

As other editors have already stated, please stop tagging articles (such as Hydrogen and Helium) with {{LEAD}} until you understand WP:LEAD. Gzkn 07:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, Terence Airey doesn't even have a lead section... Gzkn 07:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Just because most other lead sections for other chemicals are shorter doesn't mean that they are right. WP:LEAD states that the lead should effectively summarize the article, not be as short as possible. There's a reason why helium and hydrogen are featured articles, while the others are not. Gzkn 00:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

First of all, it's not my field. I'm just following WP:LEAD. Since you seem to think that any lead longer than one paragraph is incorrect, you might want to reread the "Length" section of WP:LEAD. Second of all, "p.s. I often put the {{LEAD}} up to feel out the area, there is no real way of me knowing every garden is tended to" — that's not exactly the right way to go about doing things. Going through and tagging multiple articles just to see whether or not the leads are indeed too long borders on disruption. Gzkn 00:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I seemed harsh to you, but I had seen you tagging articles (like those on WP:FAC) with LEAD every minute or so a few days ago seemingly without reading the articles themselves. If you're unsure about whether a lead is too long or not, please don't tag it as such. It's good to hear that you'll be creating other Lead templates soon though. Gzkn 01:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Related Issue

Actually, although this is not the right place to bring this up, in PROFESSIONAL level publications, it is very common to have multiple introduction-like things such as an:

• abstract
• introduction
• summary
• executive summary

etc. The present long baggy introductions to many articles just looks intimidating and of no value. If a reader just knows that they have 3 or 4 sentences to read in the first section (lead or whatever), and that tells them what the subject is about and what is roughly in the article, the article will be far more accessible and welcoming. Comments?--Filll 00:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noahide Laws

Hi! Do you do any translating? The above article generates allot of google traffic and I was hoping it could be translated into Thai, at least a stub. Please let me know... Thanks! Chavatshimshon 04:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I wish I could help, but I am quite busy at this moment. See for list of people speaking Indonesian. Peace. --Nielswik_(talk) 10:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ma malakat aymanukum

Be careful with edit summaries. This edit is not wikify--it's changing content and the meaning of what was said. gren グレン 01:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure, 'copyedit' although you changed meanings too ... even something like "some changes" ... it's just that wikify means syntax only. It's not a big deal. Just wanted to point it out because on contentious subjects misleading edit summaries (intentional or not) have created problems. gren グレン 02:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noahide Laws

Well, what language do you want it translated from, and what language do you want it translate into?—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 02:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's going to be difficult for me to translate this into Chinese (or Lojban) , what with all this religious jargon and such. How about giving me something to translate which involves, like, telephones and cats and such?—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 03:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French

I don't think I could do it into French. I can translate into English from French because my English writing is... well, at least 5th grade level. However, my French writing is probably just out of kindergarten, at best. It's quite possible that they'd delete any page I attempted to create. gren グレン 03:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you got me curious and I began to try.... I got to about "La Loi Noahide" before having to stop. I didn't know how to integrate mitvah or what phrase the French use for the "7 Noahide Laws"... "La Sept Lois Noahides"? I haven't had to write for a while and I never too writing seriously enough. Sorry. gren グレン 03:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome Bot

If you are a member of any website, you will know virtually every user based site has a welcome page. I became an editor about two months ago only after three years of using and making edits to wikipedia, quite simply because someone welcomed me and i read up the pillars! I come across contributing IPs and members with redlinked user and talk pages every day, if only there would be a welcome page they would know about the input they can make. Wikipedia has passed the stone ages but there are so so so many more articles that still need to be created, for example Category:Acari. If we could have the input of more edits even if they are scarce, we would be allot better off.

Please can I request that you make the welcome bot and that it should be operable from user accounts like my own, if possible/allowed so as to see to the problem. Or we can push for a welom page to appear in the nav.

FrummerThanThou 00:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Frummer, I don't have the time to develop another bot right now - I'm already working on two others. I did not oppose the move to create such as bot though, just suggested a few caveats. I hope you manage to find someone to take on your bot. Cheers - PocklingtonDan 07:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't remember if you already posted there but /Wikipedia:Bot_requests is the place to postup requests for people to write bots for you - PocklingtonDan 08:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noahide Law

Why do you think that article should be tagged as a stub? It looks ok lengthwise to me. --DLand^TALK 20:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Truthfully, my French isn't good enough for that - I would probably be able to do it, but it would take a lot of time and effort. If you're looking for an interwiki translator, maybe try looking at WikiProject Echo. I'm not sure how reliable they are, but it's worth trying out. --DLand^TALK 20:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project/Portal Mainpages

Looks good, maybe too good: complex code tends to scare away many users who otherwise would not hesitate to click "Edit", also it is harder to maintain. BTW, I hope you don't mind that I moved the new icon in Star of David. I think it should be SVG or PNG. (dreaming) I'd like to see something along the lines blue crystal theme... ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 01:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the best suggestion I can give you is to watch for the code close to what you like, try to understand it or see history who wrote it, ask questions. See WP:HELP. Cheers. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikilogos

I've noticed you are a graphic designer, you might be interested in my proposal for Wikipedia use logo variations created by members of the wiki community to mark national and international awareness days, Remembrance Days, notable anniversaries, and observance days. Please comment on Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Logo Variations and on my talk page. Thanks!FrummerThanThou 05:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Um... I might not be the person to be asking here! I am certainly not a graphic designer. If you still think I am qualified for whatever reason let me know. P.S. Where did you find out about me being a graphic designer? (Please reply on my talk page thanks!)—— Eagle 101 ^{(Need help?)} 06:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Bruchim

Template:Bruchim has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. IZAK 07:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adoption

Hi Frummer,

Thanks for your adoption request to adopt all six - I think most have now been approached by a user - but keep an eye on Category:Wikipedians seeking to be adopted in Adopt-a-user, I suggest you start with 1 or 2 adoptees, for a few days. My experience has been varied, with some adoptees very labour intensive others not so. So I take a new one on board each time I feel the workload slacken a bit. Cheers Lethaniol 10:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muhammad the Reformer

This is the reason why I'm not optimistic about having this and similar articles deleted. However, I will insist on keeping the unencyclopedic tag so that my protest is not unregistered. Beit Or 11:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikilogos?

I love logos ^^, BUT!

First off; what kind of awareness days? And some Rememberance days might be offencive to others, off the top of my head say the Armenian holocaust, the Turks deny it happened and refuse to adit comitting it, but I betcya the Armenians have a day to REMEMBER it. Also, some people don't like The dream factory (to get this joke click the wiki link fore Rememberance days you wrote on me talk page =P). Note: I am very buisy these days for the next two months I've got covers, collections, some more covers magazine and newspaper comics blah blah blah... so I probably won't do it, but here is some advice if it helps.

In my opinion, why not, as not a lot of wikiusers go to the front page and read it all if there's an awareness thing on it, but I don't think we should go too much in to it, maybe just slap a small awareness ribbon on the logo and make a more noticible article on the front, or maybe even send an automated awareness message to ALL USERS. The wikilogos are very estetic so we must be carefull in editing them if we are permitted tom we don't want them to loock cheep now do we ^_^? I'd keep it modest.

Also problems: Some awareness symbols, ribbons, or collors may stand for more things, so the observer may not get it. And: What if it gets out of hand? Before you know it we'll be having a santa cap on the logos hah.

In conclusion: Only if these days are important and regard everyone, not just say Christians or something. Like AIDS day, Memorial day, Give out free candy day, Global warming awareness day, ect. Exactly how, I do not know but don't make it too flashy or just too much.

If you're gonna go for it, think simple and clever, it always works ;) --Mudel 11:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Frummer! I have noticed your brief message "Wikilogos" which you have posted recently into my talk page. First off, what a good guess that you have thought about me that I am a graphic designer! :) But in actual fact, I am only almost to that sort of profession --- normally I am more towards like a draughtsman kind-of-stuff to myself and I am mostly interested in complex and highly sophisticated technical-cum-architectural design paticularly found in supertall Skyscrapers and Superstructures rather than the ones of a graphical design. Well, nevermind about that!

Anyway speaking of Wikipedia's Awareness Day's logos, I do appreciate your handful of suggestions on what you are coming up with in observance with a number of certain awareness celebrations, anniversaries, and festivities for all the entire Wiki-community although I myself do not habitually or really involve into that type of themed interests. Whatever it is, what I can give here is that I do hope your proposals for having this big online encyclopedia coupled with its Wikipedians to use logo variations in conjunction with such significant days will be able to accomplish or work out eventually once almost everyone agrees or supports with what you are presenting. Wish you all the best (especially in your recent founded proposals) and God bless! :) --onWheeZierPLot 15:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Frummer!, initialy like the idea, and like others, imagine it could be a bit like Googles occasional vriations on their logotype. Next concern though is how would it be administred? I love the open accessability of Wiki, but at tleast in the U.S. people seem very quick to take ofense, and I can imagine politics making it difficult. Example: the Muslim holiday Eid could be nice, posibly use of a message in Arabic script, but then I imagine some people being offended by it, ditto for Christmas. The fundamentalist won't be happy with a Christmas tree, they will require the baby Jesus in a manger or some sort, and that might cause some to take offense. Who would decide which days to commemorate? Could someone make a logo for htier own birthday, etc.

Happ and eager to hear your thoughts. CApitol3 20:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I have thought of something like this but we have a strong NPOV polisy, so even though I like the idea it may not be a good thing for the community, ergo I'm neutral. Nice suggestion, though. —¡Randfan! 20:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bot comments

Regarding the post that you made to my talk page: You're right, my comments were unjust and I should have been clearer in closing the request for approval. I've updated my talk page comments and amended the request itself. The most important change I made was to suggest that someone else could take up a similar request if desired. Just for information, whenever the user of a bot request is blocked indefinitely we'll close the request. There is no reason to waste the time of the community in a process that can't succeed. So far no one that I know of who was blocked indefinitely has ever come back to reactivate a closed request. But that doesn't stop a different user from taking up a similar (or the same) task. I shouldn't have explained the reason for closure as "unlikely to succeed anyway", since I made the false assumption that closing due to blocking was a common knowledge procedure. Basically I closed the discussion because the user was blocked and used the opposition to the request as supplemental support. Whenever I close an approvals request, I try to be as detailed as possible for the reasons behind the result (approval or otherwise), but in this case I should have been more careful and not made any assumptions. -- RM 15:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

In the interest of being clear, if someone else did want to take up this request, they would do so with a NEW "request for approvals" page. They could always link or copy previous discussion from the Welcomebot page, but as a simple matter of process we keep different requests separate because the request consists of two parts: The task to be performed and the bot operator. If either the task or the bot operator is deemed inappropriate, then we'll deny the request. The reason for the attention to the bot operator is because most bots run with bot flags that hide their edits from "Recent Changes". As a result, a malicious bot operator could cause considerable damage before it was detected. Thus, we have to trust bot the bot and the bot operator.

It is always implied that any given task can be attempted again by any user. Tasks that have failed may face an uphill battle, but there is no reason to assume that they'd fail outright. Take for example boilerplate messages from Wikiprojects on article talk pages, such as Talk:Schizophrenia. At one point in Wikipedia history all of those boxes at the top of the page were considered junk and not allowed. Over time opinion shifted and they are now allowed. The boxes are mainly added by bots, but would have been denied requests back when they were considered junk. Circumstances can change. There are exceptions, such as "fully automatic spell checking bots", which can't be done automatically and will always be denied. -- RM 15:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Loogos

Some portals change logos for any commemoration, why not. Google's shout for Munch's was quite awful.

I'm okay for any project like this, I just hope we'll stick to good taste. Cubist, surrealistic, funny, but not ugly, politically correct or Santa Clausy. What do you think ? --DLL ^{.. T} 17:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I've responded on my talk page. -- Samuel Wantman 20:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] subst

please subst: all talk page templates, such as {{welcome}} - crz crztalk 05:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

instead of typing {{welcome}} type {{subst:welcome}}. That way instead of "transcluding" the template in the talk page (bad), you substitute its text directly into the talk page. Read WP:SUBST - crz crztalk 07:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcomebot and reverting vandalism to my user page

Many thanks for reverting the vandalism to my user page, first time that's happened to me! I think its a shame people weren't willing to discuss the Welcomebot more, they seemed to have a natural objection to it and not really consider how it could operate in a way that would be win-win for everyone. If you do manage to get approval in an RFA re-run I will be more than happy to write the bot. I think before you go in for another RFA you need to get together a crystal-clear list of in exactly what circumstances the bot would leave a welcome message - it might be worth discussing a few of my suggestions with people and trying to come up with a list of criteria that covers everyone's concerns - the criteria I posted were a first-bash attempt, but probably need refining or adding to to make rules everyone is happy with. Also, I'd just like to add that there is a system of adoption for new users that almost no-one is aware of but might be worth building a mention of it into the welcome message - you can come up with your own template for the bot, don't necessarily have to use the standard one. Cheers - PocklingtonDan 09:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Puzzling uncat

I am a bit puzzled by some of the {{categorize}} tags you placed. David Geffen and Rabbinical Assembly already have many categories and Real estate is the main article of its own category. If you want to add more categories but do not know which, maybe you could mention it in the articles' talk pages - Skysmith 10:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kerfuffle

Look, I understand that you might be upset because of the TFD, but it is not really worth it to escalate the situation. Please let's all calm down. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:22, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

Hello. You must immediately cease from provocations or you will be blocked from editing. Thanks. El_C 14:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Bruchim

It seems to have been deleted. It was a nice thought, but it made me uncomfortable; I don't think we should be identifying new editors by religion or ethnicity. Jayjg ^(talk) 17:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Military robots

Note: this comment is part of a synchronised thread. You can reply by clicking the [edit] link next to the comment's heading, or following this link. To ensure that you can see any further responses I make, add this page to your watchlist. Once you have replied, feel free to remove this boilerplate.

Category:Military robots. Have you ever seen this category? Most of the subject articles are UAVs, should it be deleted or perhaps revived? FrummerThanThou 21:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning it. When I have time, I'll prune some of the UAVs from the category and move them into the UAV category. After that, I'll try to decide what, if anything, should be done with it. Cheers, Karl Dickman ^talk 23:22, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Title paragraphs

You left me a message a while ago which I forgot to respond to. I wish to refer you to WP:LEAD regarding your concern. Hope this helps. Ian¹³/t 18:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lead organization

I am wondering about an abstract and introduction division of the start of these articles, something like what we see at chemistry. If one looks at biology, they have a very long baggy lead which I am not wild about. physics has been having a huge debate about their lead, as has evolution. I do not like

• long unstructured leads
• leads with tons of technical jargon in them that cannot be understood easily
• lead sentences with multiple names, titles, translations, different scripts, transliterations, pronunciation guides, dates, disputed dates, audio links, multiple commas, semi colons, colons, dashes, parentheses and parenthetical remarks, multiple subordinant clauses and asides, etc.

and so on. The lead of an article is very important. It should not be a garbage dump.--Filll 19:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The physics debate

You might find it interesting to see this: Talk:Physics/wip/leadvote--Filll 20:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kindly do not create a Halakha category...

...it would be too contentious. You recently created a decent article Shaving in Jewish Law. You have made a few errors:

• Please do not use words if you cannot spell them. Use a dictionary! There is no such thing as "mid evil", I think you mean, Medieval which in any case is a Wikipedia:Redirect to Middle Ages.
• There is already an article Payot that deals with the same subject. Did you even bother to do a search on Category:Jewish law and rituals? Doesn't look like it.
• The correct form to write rabbis' names is by using separate links for Rabbi and then the name alone, thus Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky and Yosef Sholom Eliashiv should have been written as Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky and Rabbi Yosef Sholom Eliashiv. Obviosly you have not bothered to look at the way rabbis are classified in Category:Rabbis and you will note that none have "Rabbi" as part of their article's title.

Note: That over the years Wikipedians who deal with Judaism susbjects have seen fit NOT to create a new category for "Halakha" because as you well know it's very controversial and technical as to what Halakha means and how it's dealt with by the different Jewish denominations. Thus please always use Category:Jewish law and rituals instead because that allows for both strict laws as well as rituals (meaning many derabanans and minhagim that may be mentioned in some Halakha seforim yet need to be presented cautiously and not on the same level as de'oraisas) and it includes all Halakha as well.

Finally, I have renamed the article Shaving in Jewish law and customs to broaden it's subject's base and not make it sound like you are "reading the (definitive) riot act" of the Shulkhan Arukh to the world. The tone of the way you write how rabbis have "have stated that shaving with a shaver is forbidden" sounds too extereme and needs to be put in greater context.

That's about it for now, I will let you know when I find more problems that usually result from your haste in writing, editing, and creating topics that are connected to Judaism and about which I have repeatedly asked you to take care and slow down. I was also very shocked and disappointed to see your recent behavior during the Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 December 14#Template:Bruchim and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Orthodox Halakha disaster and I am warning you for the last time never to repeat such irresponsible behavior because I will then be forced to commence more serious action against you (because I worry what you will do to the whole range of Judaism articles if left to your own devices, and I am not prepared to have the work of many good editors over the years be sabotaged by your wild POV editing), as much as I would be very reluctant to do so. Gut Voch. IZAK 07:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beard in Judaism

Hi again: I guess you didn't see Beard#Judaism either. You must do this kind of preliminary research about Wikipedia articles before you jump in with your own versions of things. I have also placed the {{fact}} ("citatation needed") (see Wikipedia:Citing sources) on your new article because you are making serious statements about the ruling/s of key modern-day poskim ("decisors") without citing or mentioning the mekoros ("sources") -- even simple "External links" to sources on the Internet somewhere is better than just making blanket statements. Remember, Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia and not a place to expres one's stream of consciousness without serious thought, research and solid editing. Thank you. IZAK 08:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User talk:Asher Heimermann

In regard to your recent message to him, first you are making the same mistake that you were cautioned against on the discussion of the template you created. Don't assume a user is Jewish. Second, if you take the time to look at his edit history and his talk history, you would note that it would be unwise to encourage him to do any more welcoming. --ArmadilloFromHellGateBridge 08:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the new logo for Wikiproject-Islam

Thanks a lot for the new logo for Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam. Looks great! I hope you'll participate in the project. I'm trying to make this project more NPOV. --Matt57 01:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Adoption

Yep, indeed I do. Are you fine with that?--Renegade Replicant 01:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Have I broken rules I'm unaware of? Also, what do I need to do to create a redirect page?--Renegade Replicant 02:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] logo

thank you for being bold, frum... but the new logo you made isn't the best of choices. for quite a long time the community has argued over using crescents and the like in islam-related templates. we decided on not using them, as the crescent is not related to islam. it is more associated with later caliphates. if you would like to re-insert it, i suggest you obtain consensus of the wikiproject first. thank you. ITAQALLAH 07:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

by all means, use a symbol that is related to Islam, such as that lovely mosque image or perhaps some nice related calligraphy. i do insist however that consensus be obtained first because this is known to be a contentious topic. ITAQALLAH 07:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

i agree, but certainly i think it would have been more prudent to propose it on the talk page beforehand. i'll leave the main banner up however to see if anyone believes the same, though you may want to check the recent archives for Template talk:Islam for disputes over this. same too was the dispute, if i remember correctly, when people were disputing over the wikiproject barnstar (edit, here's a discussion with links to other relevant discussions on the topic). ITAQALLAH 08:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

thank you for the wikismile, by the way. :) ITAQALLAH 08:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your username

What on earth in your username was deemed offensive? Viridae^Talk 08:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

check out frum. thats what. frummer

Thats a hell of an over-reaction., to find that offensive. (IMO) Viridae^Talk 09:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. And I am not even sure that your name necessarily has to be connected to that origin. Seems pretty obscure to me.-Filll 03:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Hello everyone: The notion of being "FrummerThanThou" is clearly understood by most of the editors working on articles connected to Jews and Judaism who find it offensive, as you will see from the following examples. In Yiddish and Hebrew usage, among Haredi and Hasidic Jews the word Frum is still used to describe a very religious and pious Orthodox Jewish person observant and practicing Judaism in an outstanding fashion, it is the direct equivalant of User:HolierThanThou, User:SaintlierThanThou, User:MoreReligiousThanThou, User:GodlierThanThou, User:JihadierThanThou, User:DivinerThanThou, User:BlessedThanThou and such like -- all of which would be offensive to people associated with any religions and spirituality. See Wikipedia:Username, especially: Inappropriate usernames: "Inappropriate usernames include both clear and masked names. Fairly or unfairly, the line between acceptable and unacceptable user names is drawn by those who find the username inappropriate, not by the creator of the name. Please don't try and find this line. Wikipedia does not allow certain types of usernames, including the following: Confusing, misleading, or troublesome usernames: Inflammatory usernames: Wikipedia does not allow potentially inflammatory or offensive user names. Inflammatory usernames are needlessly discouraging to other contributors, and disrupt and distract from our task of creating an encyclopedia..." Thank you, IZAK 07:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AFD: NeshAir

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/NeshAir. Thank you, IZAK 13:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hope is this isn't why you got the idea ;)

Airport Christmas trees removed  ⇒ bsnowball  18:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

sorry, i was just joking about the 'offence' objections to the proposal, they seem to think something similar will happen (my bet is complaints would be from christians...) yes i knew about what had acctually happened (that was just the 1st google). on the score of blown out proportion, i'm australian, & read about it in a newspaper here! silly season... ps, i like your version of the noachide laws. as gentile i'll have to give those interpretations some careful study.  ⇒ bsnowball  19:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] mold mites

hey frummer...i noticed that you were interested in how mold mites cause pneumonia...I work on the bacteria that causes pneumonia and might be able to help...drop me a line sometime if you like. MetsFan76 02:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

heh heh....check your email. MetsFan76 02:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks for the Barnstar! Never thought I'd get one of those. --Oakshade 03:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I do not know if I brought this to your attention before but

There is a vote going on about a potential new physics lead at [3] that you might find interesting. I personally favor a nice short succinct understandable lead. If a separate introduction or other section has to be written to include more details (and it might or might not violate the MOS), then I think it is appropriate and desirable. So given my feelings in this matter, I would suggest that proposal 2 on that page presents the best choice for the first two paragraphs. I would shove most of that other detail into another section, like an introduction. --Filll 15:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adopting

Hi there Frummer - see that you have adopted Renegade Replicant. Could you use the Template:Adopting and Template:Adopter and change Renegades to Template:Adoptee if they only wants one Adopter please, Cheers Lethaniol 20:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quick Question

Would my article The Flaming Stars still be considered a stub? I placed the musical stub on there myself, but I'm curious as if it is still needed there. Thanks --Renegade Replicant 05:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes I have no idea when something is a stub and when it is not. I sort of would prefer to put the stub marker on all my articles just to be on the safe side.--Filll 05:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:Jewish

Hi. I'm not sure if you're aware, but the user has since gotten a new account, Kahanechai (talk • contribs) (or so it seems based on the contributions). Khoikhoi 05:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Messageme

done, check it out. Now you don't even need your username. Cbrown1023 21:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TNX

for the smile ...

Alf photoman 22:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Double redirects: Follow up to your move of Akiva Eger/Eiger

A rule of Wikipedia is not to create Wikipedia:Double redirects. Anyone that moves an article on Wikipedia, is required to check after the move the "What links here" link in the "toolbox" on the left hand of that article to see if there are any other redirects to the same article that require that they now be corrected so that double redirects are not created by the new redirect. It is not fair to leave that kind of clean-up work for others to do. See Wikipedia:Double redirects#How to fix a double redirect Unfortunately you did not check the Akiva Eiger What links here page as it has a number of versions of the name that must be corrected (I count eleven of them and I already corrected the twelfth) from double redirects to a single redirect each (the new name must be inserted on each page #REDIRECT [[Akiva Eiger]]) IZAK 08:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry and thanks for the remind. frummer

[edit] Organizing My User page

I've been looking around at different user pages and I've noticed that many of them are considerbly more organized than my own (including yours). I would want a more organized user page so it'd be easier for anyone who'd wish to look at something certain on my user page can find it easily w/o having to go through all of my junk.

Do you think you could help me organize my user page so it would be more fluid and helpful? Thanks --Renegade Replicant 04:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure. I wouldn't feel comfortable copying off yours... What I kind of had in mind (not sure that this would work) is to have one main page and have a navigation box of sorts to direct users to anything else (i.e. Userboxes, talk page, about me, etc...). Would that be a plausible design?--Renegade Replicant 04:27, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean. Is there anyway I could have something similar to yours but still be able to use my main page for other purposes? (i.e. Anything Wiki related).--Renegade Replicant 04:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Just a note - since Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, if a suggestion is made that did not follow "proper process", the response should be to fix that (in this case by adding a talk page section), not to reject the suggestion on that grounds. Also note that per WP:BOLD it's not mandatory to discuss merges in the first place, so in this case it wasn't even "out of process". >Radiant< 09:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Template Barnstar
		I, Dweller, award The Template Barnstar to you in honour of your work of disseminating the highly useful Eras of the Halakha Template. Dweller 11:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userpage

Dear FrummerThanThou. Thank you for your kind offer, and I am very tempted as your own is very good-looking, but at the moment, I prefer my userpage as it is.--Berig 11:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for the barnstar! :-).--Berig 11:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I am glad that you like my history contributions.--Berig 12:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid I have only a sufficient grasp of English, French and Swedish. To varying degrees I understand Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish, German, Russian, Spanish, Dutch and Italian.--Berig 12:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, I can help out some with the French WP, although I doubt that I am competent to write well about biblical matters in French. However, as a principle, I don't contribute to Swedish WP.--Berig 12:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The reason is that Swedish WP is a highly dysfunctional Wikipedia. English language WP can be a nasty place but Swedish WP lacks fundamental checks and balances against power abuse when two editors disagree. Have a great holiday.--Berig 12:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I hope that you'll do something nice during the Midwinter celebrities. They are universal you know, and celebrated by many religions (you have Hanuka). I can't help thinking of how pagan the Christian celebrations are ;).--Berig 12:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ammi

That's not appropriate... - crz crztalk 11:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes. This ammi thing. - crz crztalk 12:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Please help with the double redirects. I gtg to Shacharis. - crz crztalk 12:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eras

Nice work adding the "rabbinical eras" boxes. I think that is helpful. —Dfass 15:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

no prob. frummer

[edit] Buddha

Hi Frummer -

Thanks for tagging that paragraph (& for putting a link to the thoughtful advice in Wikipedia:Lead section). I'll give it some thought and contribute if something worthy percolates up.

Also, just wanted to say that you have one of the absolutely nicest user pages I've ever seen. Well done! Two tangents, if I may: (1) I don't know if it's intentional, but on your user page your "Contributions" link points to Special:Contributions/FrummerThanThough and I was thinking you might want to change it to Special:Contributions/FrummerThanThou; (2) I appreciate your referencing the Noahide Laws (thanks for educating me on this!) and, in reading about them, I see an immediate resonance between them and Buddhism's Five Precepts -- might you know of any Noahide Buddhist literature or communities? (Perhaps the Noahide precept regarding monotheism might make such a non-starter [though, FWIW, stricly speaking many Buddhists don't "worship" any deity] ?)

Best wishes on this the last night of Chanukah, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 19:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, as you suggested, I threw in my two cents on the talk page. (You might want to skip to the last two paragraphs as my edit is rather long-winded.) Best regards, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 19:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Howdy! FWIW, here's a way of superficially mapping the Noahide Laws to the Buddhist Five Precepts (which are to be undertaken by Buddhist laypersons):

Noahide Laws	Buddhist Lay Precepts
No idolatry	[No obvious corollary precept]
No murder	No killing
No stealing	No stealing
No sexual immorality	No sexual immorality
No blasphemy	No false speech
No live animal eating	No killing [non-human animals too]
Honest governance	[No obvious corollary precept]
[No corollary law]	No intoxicants

Well, perhaps not. I was just struck how the middle four laws/precepts so readily aligned.

As to your question about my being a Jew, I had to scratch my head a few times. I'd be happy to discuss it at length some time if you'd like, but I wouldn't want to bore you with the details. To make a long story shorter than it is: while I have two Jewish parents and I adhere to some Jewish customs (such as lighting Yorzheit candles and, most recently, celebrating Chanukah) out of respect for my parents and to give my son an appreciation of his Jewish heritage, my personal daily spiritual practice is that of a vegan Buddhist. Sometimes I think of myself as an "Ashkenazi Buddhist." (And, of course, if the Nazi cattle cars were to roll again, I would not deny my own heritage.) So, am I Jewish? Ach, I rather sit in the dark. Z'ai gezint, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 23:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting ideas. And I appreciate your encouraging words. Till our paths cross again -- be well, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 23:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate the "be bold" directive, but I rather "reach consensus" and, if I'm not invested in an article (that is, if I didn't create or significantly expand it) then I tend to just throw out ideas on the talk page and let other people ignore or act upon them -- as I've done here :-)

As for the types of Buddhism, the major branches are: Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana (though many consider Vajrayana to be part of Mahayana Buddhism).

If I may be brief and POV: Theravada is the most conservative, identifying most strongly with the earliest Buddhist texts from the Indian subcontinent (the so-called Pali canon); the main Theravada countries are in southeast Asia, such as Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, as well as Sri Lanka. Mahayana Buddhist is best known in the West for its schools of Zen (Japan) and Chan (China), but has other important schools such as Nichiren and Pure Land Buddhism. Vajrayana Buddhist is most strongly identified in the West with Tibetan Buddhism but Shingon (Japan) also has a significant presence. In the West, I think the two best known are Zen and Tibetan Buddhism, though Theravada Buddhism is being increasingly represented (sometimes in the guise of "Vipassana meditation"). FWIW, after years of a Zen practice, I currently practice Theravada Buddhism and my wife has a Tibetan practice. (Too much information perhaps?)

I regret that work calls -- if you post me back, they'll thus be a significant delay in my response. Regards, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 00:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi FrummerThanThou - thanks for the thoughtful e-mail. If I may just respond here: The WP Jubu article talks some about the phenomenon of Jews dabbling in, integrating and/or embracing Buddhist practices; in particular, the article has some external links that look useful.

In my personal experience, many go to Buddhism after a loss, often a death, since Buddhism is often framed by the Buddha's Four Noble Truths that identify suffering and its extinction as Buddhism's primary focus. People then frequently stay with the practice because of its powerful and simple mind-development methods for unifying the mind and bringing about deeply meaningful non-verbal insights. Since Buddhism does not posit or demand obeisance to a godhead, there is no direct conflict with Judeo-Christian notions of G-d. Thus, people can maintain Buddhist practices without relinquishing Abrahamic beliefs or practices.

Of course, things get so much more complicated when one looks at individual experiences, but I hope this POV overview can broadly have some meaning. With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 13:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BOT BOT

do you have a source code for a bot? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Judged (talk • contribs) 22:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Islam disambig

I'm not sure what you're pointing out is supposed to imply the page could be deleted, but it doesn't matter because that page isn't a guide to deletion- WP:CSD is. Some of the subjects on that page look plenty notable- but the religion would be more so, so it is correctly under the title "Islam" while the rest is on a separate disambig page. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 02:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Holocaust123.JPG

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[edit] Image tagging for Image:Rainbow123.JPG

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[edit] thank you

i'll keep that in mind. i didn't realise it was a problem. also before i forget, your edits to the WP ISLAM template, while aesthetically very nice, removed the coding the template uses for presenting ratings and organising articles into various categories and such. ITAQALLAH 09:02, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

sorry, i thought you would have noticed that you were removing all that stuff [4]. ITAQALLAH 09:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

i insist you introduce these changes to other wikiproject templates (try that of WP:WPBIO for example) and see if they are met with agreement or opposition. i am entirely certain it will be the latter. your changes remove the importance and ranking categories that are assigned to articles as well as the presentation of it. we are entitled to have our own assessment department, whatever discussion goes down on the village pump does not substitute consensus, and there is certainly none within our wikiproject or other wikiprojects which do use such templates and scalings to stop using it. ITAQALLAH 09:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

• first: don't you believe it would have been more appropriate to see what people involved in the wikiproject think beforehand? i think it's bad practice to make changes without consultation and then direct others to battle it out on talk while maintaining the contentious version. thus, i invite you to restore the original version and then discuss.
• second: seeing as though quality/importance rankings and categories are no longer a problem from what i understood of your reply, please restore the relevant categories that were removed and the importance/ratings display. you may change whatever wordings and colour schemes you wish to make it more inviting, the assessment scalings that we and other wikiprojects have established however should remain intact. ITAQALLAH 10:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

with all due respect, you are bringing about wholesale changes without first discussing it and without realising its consequences- every time you revert you are severing around a hundred (and growing) articles from their rating and importance categories, and possibly disrupting the bot operated article counter that almost all wikiprojects operating under WP:1.0 use. had i not believed you were introducing changes in good faith, i would have seen it as vandalism. consensus? check the other wikiprojects which are using it without a problem. check our own template which has been using it since it was made- without a problem. you say you know nothing about our assessment department, but you're removing the coding vital for it without second thought. "rv per talk" is an incorrect summary. no, i have not violated 3RR. ITAQALLAH 10:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

About the meta crawlers, your fears are unfounded, the meta tags remained so no bot would have snagged any list. Remember that I'm not deciding that you should not have quality scales, i simply proposed for it to be left out, you could have simply put it back in the new one. In the meantime, chill, I'm only meaning for things to look neater, and I so happened to have started this monumental task here. Most other wikiprojects don't update their quality ratings and def not their importance ratings. I've had no complaints in leaving them out elsewhere. I understood you didn't want the crescent, but you latest moves made me think you're not interesting in cooperating with interests that contravene yours. Bye for now. frummer 11:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

listen.. this arguing is rather petty. i had already stated, whatever changes you wanted which would make things look neater would be great. if you would like to see the ratings presentation and article categorisations removed, it should be discussed first. i would have retained your other stylistic changes were i more astute with templates. i've not assumed malice on your part for even a moment, and it would be nice if you could reciprocate. ITAQALLAH 11:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] using 'see also'

Articles have a 'see also' section at the bottom. It is therefore not necessary, and rather messy, to add such tags at the top, especially where the links are not on the same topic: Noahide laws, for example, are mentioned in the article on Noah, but are not the same topic, or subject to possible confusion, so should not be added to the top. --Drmaik 11:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yep, good idea

Basically two types of errors, common typos can be dealt with by redirects, rare typos fall through to "search". Problem here is if we have a smarter algorithm (Soundex or trying all swaps of adjacent letters) we don't know the impact on server load. Rich Farmbrough, 12:53 24 December 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Read in my talk

my answer to your question and some extra info. Dartelaar 15:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noahide

Frummer, I think the Noahide Laws article would benefit greatly from the oversight of RFC to keep things NPOV. There are some strong personalities involved in editing the article. I would add my support to reach a consensus, but I'll leave it to editors who have spent a lot of time on the article to decide. BTW, I don't agree with 'see also' above. See Also sections just lower the quality of an article. Ovadyah 00:38, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcoming anons

Please use {{anon}} rather than {{welcome}} when welcoming anons. And does it really make sense to invite someone who makes an edit like this [5], even as a test (he removed it later), or this [6]? Also, please see Template talk:WikiProject Judaism#Changes. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 04:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

1) I know about the controversy, but {{Welcome}} is for user who have registered. 2) All WikiProject templates have the same color. What is so compelling to use another color? Do we really want to see rainbow of colors there? I don't. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 04:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:WikiProject Ophthalmology articles

Hi, Thanks for your message. I am currently busy in real life, preparing for upcoming exams, interviews and trips. It may take me quite a while to start contributing again - I am estimating 6 months at least. Keep up the good work. EyeMD ^T|C 05:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FARC

See WP:FAR#Names_of_God_in_Judaism. This FA is about to lose its status unless some people do some prompt and very serious work on it. I've just helped apparently save Chess from a similar fate - it's difficult but possible. --Dweller 22:26, 25 December 2006 (UTC)