Talk:Front de libération du Québec
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An event mentioned in this article is an October 5 selected anniversary.
[edit] Subjective ?
and stole approximately 534 thousand (Canadian, adjusting for inflation) dollars in goods and moneys.
Hahahah!! adjusting for inflation! The guy who writed that forgot to calculate the low salary of white niggers of the time! Seriously, this article should be absolutely declared lacking NPOV. I don't know how to do that through. 207.253.111.41 03:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC) k-let
- Well, the Gustave Morf wrote 100 thousand dollars in goods in his 1970 book, and he was a Canadian author (His book was actually appended with the October Crisis), and using TD's inflation calculator it yields 534 thousand. Why is it not of a neutral point of view, simply because it's Canadian dollars on a primarily Canadian article? This sort of falls under the category of regional spelling variations. That, and I'm confused. Logical2uReview me! 22:36, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 200 violent crimes?
"200 violent crimes" waouh ! More than Bin Laden ! Who has sources ? Ericd
I lived through it and was in a violent bank robert when they started firing a machine gun across the wall....DW ---- And don't remove my photos.
Brrrrrrr........ really disgusting. But one violent crime where are the 199 others ?
Sorry if I'm rude or sarcastic, but there's a lot of violence in this World. I believe I've seen enougth myself. Shocked peoples are bad candidates for NPOV, and terrorists are in search of hate to justify their crimes.
Wikipipedia is a collaborative project, NPOV is Wikipipedia's policy, I think it's a good thing, I hope this is good for the whole Mankind. There's a lot of free space providers where you can find space for any opinion you wish to express.
I don't mean to hurt you, I'm sorry if I'm to direct but English is not my native language.
Language has nothing to do with remnoving pictures without reason....DW
I have at least one good reason : putting mug shots whitout even giving the name of any person doesn't seems normal practice in an encyclopedia.
Of course you can ignore it as I'm an "idiot" sufferring for some "severe lack of brains".
I still find this article lacks NPOV. Ericd 12:13 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Felquiste
Listening to a radio interview I recently learned the term Felquiste, meaning an FLQ member. This term should be added to the article, but I'm unsure of the spelling: is it Felquiste or Effelquiste or Èfelquiste or something else? Indefatigable 15:11, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- It is felquiste. It means a FLQ member or a FLQ sympathiser. -- Mathieugp 19:26, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] The FLQ targeted the Statue of Liberty?
I'm puzzled as to what purpose was for wanting to bomb the Statue of Liberty. The FLQ's aims had mostly nothing to do with the United States, unless the group's doctrine was to intimidate all English speakers on the continent. It seems unlikely that the FLQ would have wanted to do anything other than compromise Canadian unity, but then again the group was not a real unity and any anti-American Quebecer could have joined the group and decided to form a cell to attack America under another cover.
I was mostly wondering about the article's author's source regarding this information. I can't seem to find it anywhere else on the net. The only other mentions Yahoo brings up are ones linking to this very article. I could browse through some Montreal newspapers I have in my attic, but it seems like it ulimately won't be worth the effort.
- I would like to know the source of this assertion too. I had never heard of it before reading it in Wikipedia. However, I would not be surprised if the FLQ indeed planned on trying to grab the attention of the US media; this would only make sense. For the Marxists of the FLQ, the USA were certainly seen as the ultimate imperialist monster, the next big thing overshadowing France's and Great Britain's small empires. The FLQ leaders wrote a number of texts in which it was pretty clear that for them, whether it came from the US, Great Britain, France or even Canada, capitalist imperialism was the enemy of liberty, equality and democracy. I assume that if really they intended to blow up the Statue of Liberty, it was to give them the occasion to spread their propaganda all over the continent. -- Mathieugp 13:35, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
== The FLQ targeted the Statue of Liberty? == (answer from a quebecer and historian)
The reason why some people don't understand this FLQ plan about bombing the Statue of Liberty takes root with the misunderstanding of the politcal aims of the FLQ. This group was more than independantist, it was also against capitalism and promoted socialism/communism. So, the ennemy wasn't just the canadians (anglophones) who had almost complete control over our economy and social existence, but also against capitalism and, by extension, the american imperialism, which is closely tied to capitalism and world wide economy. Bombing the statue was exactly the kind of actions corresponding whit the Felquists' aims, considering the statue represents the american dream, which is, for many non american, a big lie and a ideological propaganda.
Important factor to add too. The independantist cause of Quebec isn't about "dividing" the Canadian unity. Geopoliticaly, Canada doesn't exist at all. It is a mistake to believe that this confrontation is only a Francophone/Anglophone issue. The fact is that Quebec, like Ontario, Atlantic provinces, Central Canada and the Pacific territories, is a Statehood, a nation. Canada was formed with the expansion of the railroad accross north america to prevent the US from gaining all of north america. In everydays life, the social ways of living, of thinking, and of making actions is different, depending of where you are in the country. So, the Quebec fight for independance isn't about to brake something. It's about existing as a Free state instead of a controlled state. There is no Canadian way of livingm, as this illusion is made mainly of an Ontarian way of thinking, which isn't reprensenting the rest of the country.
I hope this helps people understand better
Philippe Brisson
It's a sad day when people like you can be called "historians". Canada IS a geopolitical entity. Simply because it is an uneven amalgam of various cultures and economies does not void its status as a country. That's why your text is not in the wiki page, I guess. It's just an opinion.
We removed disinformation - "Occasional" declartions? - all groups are "unknown" until they act. Inserted information on the bombing of the Stock Exchange JillandJack 16:52, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The Bay and not La Baie?
Wasn't 'The Bay' originally called 'La Compagnie de la Baie d'Hudson', back in the 17th century?? From all I can remember it has always been called 'La Baie' in Quebec... Does the french name really have anything to do with terrorism???? Where is that story from??
- According to Hudson's Bay Company, it was always an English company (despite the involvement of two Frenchmen in its founding). -- Curps 02:48, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
- I can vouch for the accuracy of this statement, being an employee of HBC myself. — NRen2k5 06:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pictures?
Evidentally some pictures were removed - tho I can't see where they were originally, in order to judge whether they really needed to be removed. (Perhaps one photo showing a significant cell would be pertinent). However, references to these photos remain. Either they should go up, or the references need to be removed.
[edit] BBC link
There is a link to this article at the BBC page http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/10/newsid_2531000/2531261.stm
202.0.40.83 23:49, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] More on French names for Business
The french renaming in Quebec have nothing to do with terrorism!
1 ) It makes marketing sense for most business to adapt to the language spoken by the majority of their customers. A vast majority of an about 8 million population in Quebec isn't fluent in english! 2 ) There is a province-wide law on bilingual advertisement which strongly promotes the use of french.
I will not contribute to this article since I am a native of this province and can't claim NPOV. But the inference that the french naming for business and the political support for sovereignty are aftermath of terrorism are both unfounded. — Anonymous
- As a native to Montreal myself, I may have trouble keeping a NPOV, but I can go so far as to say this:
The French naming of businesses is neither directly nor indirectly linked to the actions of the FLQ. Rather, the political party "Parti Québecois" shares the FLQ vision of a francophone, independent Québec and in 1977 they enacted a Charter of the French Language to force the prevalence of French in business and government. — NRen2k5 06:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I do not see how this article tries to imply that political support for sovereignty is an aftermath of terrorism. How can it be an aftermath if it was present before and during the events?
That being said, people should refer to Quebec Bill 101 for more information on French business names. Because of this bill, "McDonald's" is referred to and trademarked as "McDonald", "Eaton's" (or was until their demise) as "Eaton", and so on. There is substantially more presure on English Canadian business names to change their names than on American ones ("EB Games" and "Toys R Us" are the same, for example). Insurrance company "Canada Life" had to change to "Canada Vie".
[edit] Cut and pasting a discussion in Talk:Quebec which should interests readers of FLQ:Talk
[edit] Pierre Trudeau, the RCMP, and the FLQ?
I have never heard about this before I read this page. I believe I have a fairly wide ranging knowledge of the era and the incident and I would just like a source to the inquiry that says that Trudeau pushed the RCMP to inflitrate the FLQ to push them to violent actions. Much of the evidence of the time points to the idea that the RCMP had very little in the way of background on the FLQ and it was part of what led to the massive confusion on the part of the federal government at the time.
I could not find it in English (of course), but here it is in French:
http://www.vigile.net/00-10/octobre-grandchamp.html (last article at the bottom)
You can use Google or Babelfish to get a rought translation. I will translate it myself this weekend.
The name of the inquiry is the McDonald Commission. They also mention a Keable Commission in 1977.
In English, I only found this one good article:
http://www.vigile.net/01-1/flq-citizen.html
-- Mathieugp 12:12, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I found a radiocast on the subject of the MacDonald commission in the online archives of Radio-Canada:
http://archives.radio-canada.ca/IDCC-0-9-1500-10144/guerres_conflits/espionnage_canada/
-- Mathieugp 15:11, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm quite aware of the debate surrounding the level of crisis. What I am not aware of is information about Trudeau using the RCMP to infiltrate the FLQ and push it to violent activities. I did not read anything about this in the links provided. I really think if this can't be substantiated that it should be removed. Benw
- OK. I guess you cannot read French. In the night of July 26, 1974, Robert Samson, then working for the secret services of the RCMP, accidentally triggered the bomb he was going to set up behind the house of Steinberg's president in Ville Mont-Royal. (If you never lived in Quebec, Steinberg was a chain of grocery stores). Then he was arrested and lated tried. It of course made the news. His revelatations during the trial is the beginning point of all we know. He was being payed by the RCMP to do criminal acts which would later pass as crimes committed by the FLQ. Premier of Quebec René Lévesque set up the Keable Commission, mandated to inquired on the illegal activities of the RCMP on the territory of Quebec. Trudeau immediately setup a competing McDonald Commission. A lot of evidence was brough to light at that time. The Keable commission started to inquire, but was blocked on many levels. Many of the documents they demanded from the federal government were kept secret. The federal government of Trudeau tried to shut down the Keable commission and succeeded. The government asked the Supreme Court if a provincial government had the power to inquire on the operations of the federal government. The supreme court ruled in favor of the federal government. After that, the lawyers of the government reduced the inquiring powers of its own McDonald Commission.
- In 1992, a lot of the documents that were given to the Keable and MacDonald commission in the 70s were finally made public. These documents contradicted the version of the story that Trudeau had given to his MacDonald commission. The cabinet reports for October 14 and 15 has many ministers expressing their opinion that the government has not demonstrated that there exists a threat of insurrection. Three ministers demanded evidence that the War Measures Act was necessary.
- Reg Whitaker, professor of political science at York University, member of the Canadian Association for Security and Intelligence Studies published a memoir on the subject in August of 1993, but the English language media largely ignored it as Pierre Trudeau published his biography around the same time. The memoir stated that the security comitee of the cabinet authorised the RCMP to compile information on the members of the RIN as soon as the middle of the 1960s. Under the Trudeau goverment, the RCMP was instructed to treat the separatist movement as a whole (which in their definition included the FLQ and the PQ) the same way the communist Party was being treated.
- Regarding the PQ, the Secret Services of the RCMP stole their list of members in January of 1973 at the explicit request Trudeau's cabinet. The cabinet emitted a directive for the RCMP on this subject during its meeting on December 19, 1969.
-- Mathieugp 2 July 2005 00:30 (UTC)
This is all true and i wish more of those truths would make it to the first page. -SB
This is all speculation and does not belong in an encyclopedic entry, unless labeled as what it is, a conspiracy theory. Much like Area 51 or CIA/KGB involvement in the assassination of Kennedy. - MP
This is true, because it has been later revelated on the news that the RCMP did rob dynamite sticks on constuction sites, saying was done by flq. They also did a lot more, like creating false documents. Many quebeckers will remember the confusion they created and it was later revelated by some quebec members of the rcmp.
- Right, some called it the Canadian Watergate. The police officer was arrested after the bomb exploded in his hands, I believe. I just don't have the books any more (I'll try and get them, to cite it). Logical2uReview me! 22:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sourcing
Does anyone have a source on the claimed Statue of Liberty bomb plot?L0b0t 14:44, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Motivations?
Just was watching the CBC special "October 1970"... What exactly where the motivations of these groups? Besides just knowledge of socialism, I suspect that there were economic inequalities (or discrimination or something similar) in the society that furthered these types of movements. It would add a lot to the article to include some coverage of this aspect of things. --70.51.230.151 03:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Flag
The FLQ flag and description are available here: [1] - TheMightyQuill 20:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
