User talk:Fred Bauder/Archive 3

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[edit] We need to finish up JRR 1

People are getting restless. We need to close up Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/JRR Trollkien; I think the easiest way to do this would be to officially proclaim that he is, indeed, a reincarnation of 24/EntmootOfTrolls/&c., which will be quick and uncontroversial. The new section is here. Could you possibly have a look at it? Thanks. James F. (talk) 04:28, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] wiki-info

what does "little factual basis for a sympathetic point of view" mean? Almost every view has somebody who can be documented as sympathetic. I'm curious, esp. since I was thinking of editing on the wiki-info as well as the pedia here. You seem to suggest that a key peice of their policy is unfairly represented? Sam [Spade] 20:51, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wikinfo's policy on sympathetic point of view does not extend to totalitarian ideologies and related subjects. White nationalism due to its association in popular culture with Neonazism probably deserves some sort of special treatment as legitimate grievances are usually not taken seriously. Fred Bauder 12:54, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the general point your making (particularly "legitimate grievances are usually not taken seriously"), but I do understand that Wikinfo's policy apparently does not extend to unpopular ideologies. On a separate note...

White grievances, for example, with affirmative action, or immigration, which White nationialists raise are often not taken seriously due to the associations with racism which White nationalist represent. Fred Bauder 19:27, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

I understand that, but in my eyes that would display an especially clear need for allowing a sympathetic point of view for them on wikinfo. I guess I am always for bringing up the lowest common denominator, but I don't see why they (or anyone) should be the exception to the rule. Sam [Spade] 02:55, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] arbitration

Might I enquire as to why you have changed your vote? I understood and agreed with your previous stance, but I see that you have made a 180-degree turn and have chosen to accept without comment. I'm not aware of the particulars on this, but I assume you are in no way required to provide explanations for your votes or decisions one way or the other. That said, I would prefer to be enlightened as to your reasoning, and would perhaps enjoy an opportunity to attempt to sway you, assuming that was both acceptable and necessary. Sam [Spade] 18:02, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Mav that we need to take a look at the requirement that editors strive for NPOV in the context of the case of an editor who is allegedly not trying at all. Fred Bauder 23:18, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the reply. Sam [Spade] 02:55, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration: Mr Natural Health

Hi, I'm just leaving a note on every Arbitration Committee Member's talk page pleading with them to look at this case more quickly. He is back in full flow these last few days [1] --bodnotbod 02:23, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Early National Socialism

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Early National Socialism/draftAndyL 08:27, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sam Spade's attempt to streach for a factual basis for this slur is of the same temper.

What exactly does this mean? "of the same temper"? Sam [Spade] 21:19, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It means that you are trying to work up factual support for hate speech. Fred Bauder 22:07, Jul 3, 2004 (UTC)

statement moved to Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/User:WHEELER#An_additional_slur Sam [Spade] 06:12, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] My Arbitration Case

As the Wikipedia is currently experiencing technical difficulties which prohibit me from editing or defending myself, I expect you to relay this message to the rest of your committee.

The rules are quite clear that, prior to arbitration, a plaintiff must attempt to resolve the issue via the mediation committee -- as Snowspinner has not done this, I expect the committee to follow its own rules and insist that Snowspinner attempt to resolve his personal issues with me, by discussing with me in a mediated fashion.

I am happy to accept mediation and believe that mediation, on this issue, is long overdue. Lirath Q. Pynnor

I am disappointed that you have not responded to the above -- if you are on vacation, please inform the parties which you are judging. Regardless, I have begun a defense at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Lir/Evidence/Defense Lirath Q. Pynnor

[edit] Lyndon LaRouche

-> Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche

[edit] Israel Shahak

Hi Fred,

I have no problem with the edit you made to Israel Shahak, but all the same, I'd rather you didn't edit protected articles. Thanks!

DanKeshet 02:34, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 172

I'm not sure why you left the note regarding the restoration of the arbcom request on 172's talk page when it was Sam Spade who made the changes. :) Snowspinner 14:39, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

I have no idea what he's talking about (snowspin) or why he feels a need to mess about in all this, plying in the mud so to speak. Either way, you can see my response to you here: User_talk:172#WP:RfAR

Sam [Spade] 18:17, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] LaRouche

-> Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche

[edit] Arbitration case

I strongly object to you listing my name alongside Lance6Wins at Wikipedia:Requests for Arbitration. I have not been accused of any offence and the case against Lance6Wins is not a dispute between him and me. I didn't even initialize the case against Lance6Wins. I am the poor sysop who has been trying to defend Wikipedia against assault by a fanatic. The case concerns Lance6Wins' behaviour over many months and not about particular articles nor about my recent blocks of his IPs. --Zero 08:52, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"In legalese, he has filed a counterclaim." Since when do defendants have the right to file counterclaims against witnesses? Funny sort of law you practice, Fred. --Zero 00:13, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It's quasi-law. We're a quasi-judicial body. :) Martin 20:10, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sam Spade

How would you recommend I be less bullheaded? Sam [Spade] 19:12, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lyndon LaRouche

-> Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche

[edit] Lyndon LaRouche

Further to this matter, since I have been censured and penalised for personal attacks, I think it is now appropriate that I ask you to make an additional ruling that User:Herschelkrustofsky be required to refrain from calling named individuals "fascists," particularly those who are not Wikipedians and not present to defend themselves, unless there is evidence that they belong to a fascist organisation or have espoused views generally accepted as fascist. I refer to his repeated description of an Australian Member of Parliament, Michael Danby, as (to quote just the most recent example) "Australia's most outspokenly fascist Member of Parliament, Michael Danby." This is untrue and grossly offensive, and may also expose Wikipedia to action for defamation. I think fairness dictates that if I am to be censured for calling Herschelkrustofsky a slanderer, he should be required to cease being one. Adam 00:14, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The most reference instance is at Talk:Lyndon LaRouche#For those of you just joining us. Adam 12:31, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It's a perfectly true statement, and highly relevant to the debate within which it was made. However I am willing to refrain from futher such comments, provided Herschelkrustofsky is instructed to cease slandering people as fascists and this instruction is enforced. Adam 14:37, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Re: "arbitration/Rex071404"

Please take note, yesterday, I posted my version of the facts on this issue as per the page's instructions: "If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Please do this under a seperate header, to seperate your response from the original evidence."

However, tonight, Neutrality has twice deleted my statement from that page and instead moved it to the "discussion" page.

I am trying my best to defuse the tense dynamic between Neutrality an myself, but I am at a loss as to what to do.

For example, Neutrality is again jumping all over my edits on John Kerry and deleted/reversed me me multiple times tonight wihtout discussion. I have left copious notes on that talk page explaining my edits, but Neutrality dos not dialog with me.

I really would appreciate some guidedance on getting Neutrality to give me some breathing room.

Also, please take note, although I am feeling very pressed againg by Neutrality, I am not reverting to my intial method of snide commentary.

Since Snowspinner chastized me sevral days ago with a 24hr ban, I have reconsidered and am avoiding harsh statements. That being the case, when can I expect Neutrality to be advised to leave me be and not be so agressive to me? Rex071404 01:49, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Question about ArbCom procedure

I noticed your comment on User talk:Rex071404 about the arbitration concerning him. Therefore, of all the arbitrators, I've singled you out to be pestered with a question about procedure. Is there a point at which the "record" is closed so that the Committee can make a decision? After the initial request was made, I added a few items. Then, more recently, I added a very detailed account of one particular illustrative incident. Now, in the course of doing something not directly related to the arbitration proceeding, I came upon something else that I'd forgotten before but that adds a little morsel to the case. If I'd remembered it initially I would've included it, but it's no big deal. My concern is that if the complainants keep adding things, and Rex keeps adding responses or other defenses, we'll just have a version of the Talk:John Kerry debate carried over to a new page, and the ArbCom will never have a completed record on which to act. In requesting a preliminary injunction, I've mentioned why I think speed is important, so I wouldn't want to delay the proceeding by continuing to add things. Any advice you can give on the timing (complaints, responses, ArbCom action) would be appreciated. (I've never been involved in an arbitration before.) JamesMLane 02:46, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You copied my question to my Talk page and answered it there. I infer that you prefer to have all the discussion in one place instead of bouncing back and forth between Talk pages (I agree, I really dislike that feature of so many Wikipedia conversations), and that you prefer the one place to be my Talk page instead of yours (fine with me). Accordingly, I've replied there. Thanks for your response. JamesMLane 14:16, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lyndon LaRouche

When can I expect a formal response to my request above re Herschelkrustofsky? This is a matter I take very seriously. Adam 07:28, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche/Proposed decision, Section Proposed findings of fact, where the following proposed finding, "6) User Herschelkrustofsky has engaged in personal attacks directed at User:Adam Carr though association with Adam Carr's employer, Michael Danby who he characterizes as "Australia's most outspokenly fascist Member of Parliament" see[2]" has been added and is being voted on.

Also in the section Proposed remedies, "7) User Herschelkrustofsky is banned for one day for making personal attacks." and in the subsection Enforcement, "4) In the event of additional personal attacks by either party, either User Herschelkrustofsky or User Adam Carr are subject to short bans, the duration of the ban to gradually increase upon subsequent offenses." Fred Bauder 12:56, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Dear Arbitration Committee:

I have read the following:

=== Remedies===

1) Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement may be removed from any Wikipedia article in which it appears other than the article Lyndon LaRouche and other closely related articles.