Talk:French presidential election, 2007

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Contents 1 Confusing sentence 2 Dates 3 Basic questions 4 Merci Beacoup 5 unruly youth from poor suburbs 6 Evolution of the campaign 7 January polls 8 Bias in article 9 Likeliness to get the signatures 10 A Question on Polls 11 Order of candidates 12 Dates of Opinion Polling 13 Question: How should "far right" be used in French context? 14 blog link 15 article on the french electoral system?

[edit] Confusing sentence

What does this sentence mean?

It may also mark the first presidential election in which President Jacques Chirac may decline to run for a third term in office.

Um, isn't this the first opportunity Chirac has to decline to run for a third term? Does it mean that this is the first time he's turned down the chance to run for re-election? Does it mean this is the first time anyone has declined to run for a third term? Help me out here. --Jfruh 21:08, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't find that exact sentence in the article, any longer: it must have been amended. But the answer to your second question, "Does it mean that this is the first time he's turned down the chance to run for re-election?", is yes, I believe. Sure, Chirac could have said he won't run before this time, but I don't remember him doing so. And I would guess that there have been other three-term presidents in France before, although I don't really know: not under the current constitution, it looks like -- the term formerly was 7 years, and the 5th Republic's De Gaulle, Pompidou, Giscard, and Mitterrand all served less than 14, per Presidents_of_France -- and the list on that page of other presidents & terms back to the 2d Republic doesn't appear to indicate any 3-termer. So I suppose the implication of your 3rd question may be correct. The political point in France now, though, is that Chirac is declining "under pressure": that's the real significance of his decision not to run.

--Kessler 17:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I confirm you that never in France history a president tried to run for a third term. Concerning the Fifth republic, De Gaulle was elected twice and resigned before the end of his second term. Mitterrand was elected twice and then retired at the end of the second term. Pompidou died during his first term and Giscard d'Estaing was beaten at the end of his first term. During the Third republic, Grévy and Lebrun were elected twice but had to resign before the end of the second term. All the other presidents of France history just did one term. About Chirac, he was candidate and beaten in 1981 and 1988 and elected in 1995 and 2002. If he doesn't run in 2007, which is almost sure, it will be the first election without Chirac for 26 years.

Among the potential candidates of the Socialist Party, I whithdrawed Bertrand Delanoë, mayor of Paris, who officially announced he wouldn't run in 2007.

According to my lecturer last-term the French constitution actually bars anyone from being President of France for more than two terms. So why can Chirac run for a third term? Because in 2000 he changed the constitution so that Presidential terms were shortened from 7 to 5 years, and the new amendment specifies that no one can be President for more than two FIVE YEAR terms, so in effect Chirac had had a seven year term and then could, theoretically, run for another two five year terms, and he wonders why no one wants him to be President for another term, both on the left and the right! --CTerry 21:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

According to my lecturer last-term the French constitution actually bars anyone from being President of France for more than two terms.

Your lecturer is wrong, as can be checked by reading the Constitution, where no term limit appears. David.Monniaux 17:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dates

Could you please provide the source for the dates of the election. As far as I know, they have not been decided yet. Hektor 06:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The dates are fixed by article 7 of the Constitution of France, which states that elections should take place between 20 and 35 days before the end of the term of the previous president". The term ending in 2007 will end on the 16th of May 2007, at 24 o'clock.

Since elections take place on Sunday, this leaves the 15 April and the 22 April for the first round, and the 29 April or 6 May for the possible (and likely...) second round. Rama 11:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Basic questions

How do the parties pick their candidates? Who has actually said they are running? The Secretary of Funk 00:17, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The candidates of the two major parties - Socialist Party for the left and Union for a Popular movement for the right - will be chosen through an internal vote of all the members of the parties - a kind of caucus. The other conservaties parties - Movement for France, Union for French Democracy and National Front - are one-man parties so the selection will be easier for them.

Are officially candidates:

Ségolène Royal, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Laurent Fabius and Jack Lang for the Socialist Party

Arlette Laguiller for Workers Struggle (far-left)

Jean-Marie Le Pen for the National Front

Bruno Mégret for the Republican National Movement (far-right, minor)

Philippe de Villiers for the Movement for France

Nicolas Dupont-Aignan for the Union for a Popular Movement (minor candidate)

Dominique Voynet, Yves Cochet, Jean Desassard, Cecile Duflot and Alain Uguen for the Green

[edit] Merci Beacoup

Thanks a lot for this article, good work, I've learned a lot. 2007 will be France's last chance to shine once more. If DeGaule or Napoleon would see un now...they would be so ashamed.

[edit] unruly youth from poor suburbs

Huh? Shouldn't Wikipedia be a little more detailed into the cause of the riots, the persons involved and the location of the riots?

- yep - can't.. use.. M-word... and immigration just not an issue in France, oh-no-no-no...

There is a whole article about that. Follow the link from the article! Thermaland 21:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evolution of the campaign

I guess that this article hasn't been modified for a long time, since there are far more confirmed candidacies [and it shows only two ; those parties may be the most important, but there are others]... has to be updated (but how ?) ! Transcendency 13:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• The other candidacies are not sure to get the 500 required endorsements. When one of the two French main parties announces a candidate, he/she is sure to get the endorsement. When small party so-and-so says they have a candidate, the validation by the Constitutional Council on the basis of 500 valid endorsements is far from granted.Hektor 06:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] January polls

I know there's been many new opinion polls released this month, but they haven't been put on the article yet. Would anyone be able to? Jamandell (d69) 22:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

And now I ask...are there any polls available for February? Jamandell (d69) 17:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias in article

"* Radical Islam-- Since 2005, France has been in a state of open civil war against "unruly youth" who are overwhelmingly Muslim. As of November, 2006, there were 751 specifically defined areas which had fallen under the control of these Muslim forces [3][4]. There have been over 3000 attacks against the police[5], and thousands of cars, along with a number of buses[6], have been firebombed or otherwise burned. France is just one of many fronts in the global war of radical Islam against non-Islamic civilization (Thailand, Nigeria, Somalia, Sweden, Belgium, Lebanon, numerous others[7])."

If you check the sources you will see that they source anti-Islam websites such as "Militant Islam Watch." Also the language used is blatently discriminatory, and seems to suggest that Muslems and the French are literally in a civil war. Considering the fact that they are holding elections this is obviously not the case and that leads me to believe that there are some factual errors as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Garet43 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Likeliness to get the signatures

"Confirmed candidates are those that have declared their intention to run and are very likely to obtain the necessary 500 signatures from elected officials to endorse their candidacy."

Most of these candidates are NOT likely at all to get the signatures. Bayrou, Sarkozy, Royal, Buffet and Voynet will get them for sure. Besancenot, Lepage, Laguiller, De Villiers and Le Pen are likely/very likely to get them. I'm not sure about Dupont-Aignan, Bové, Cheminade, Nihous, Schivardi, Waechter, but the others can IMO be considered unlikely to obtain these signatures. El pitareio 14:41, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Question on Polls

US political polls generally have a choice for each major candidate, a choice for "other" and a choice for "Undecided". I understand that the French polls are meant to replicate a theoretical run off between Royal and Sarkozy. However, (i) are there any polls on the first round and (ii) do any of the polls indicate the undecideds? --Amcalabrese 15:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the polls on this page only show the run-off scenarios, not the first round scenarios. For a numebr of polls on the upcoming election, check the Angus Reid Global Monitor.

Thanks. I did see somewhere that the number of undecideds are also quite high. However, it seems that in European political polls the undecideds are not listed separately so you usually have to look inside the associated articles. --Amcalabrese 17:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of candidates

Why are they not listed alphabetically? Would this not be a violation of NPOV? CKSCIII 01:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The main candidates thing is also highly POV it seems to me. Hektor 16:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it is based on how well the candidates fare in the polls and whether they have a chance of making it to the second round. David.Monniaux 17:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dates of Opinion Polling

It is but a little thing but at present there are some opinion polls dated in the European style (day/month) and then some dated in the American style (month/day). This is not really confusing in that the opinion polls are in a month by month hierarchy already. Additionally there are some dates where the month is known that are listed as for instance "10 et 11". Should the date styling be consistent? --Francis Burdett 19:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question: How should "far right" be used in French context?

The terms "far right" or "far left" are often used as insulta rather than as proper descriptions of a political viewpoint. Le Pen, for example, appears to be more of a nationalist and racist anti-Semite -- but the former Soviet Union was also nationalist, racist, and anti-Semitic. Is he also a monarchist? That would be far right, unless of course he supported the Orleanist dynasty, who could be very moderate.

Is Sarkozy right-wing at all? He may be nothing more than a plain-talking centrist reacting to a specific issue. Some French socialists also appear to be centrists, while Chirac appears to be more of a crook than a true conservative.

It's all rather confusing. Help! Scott Adler 06:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that Le Pen is consistently referred to as far-right by the English- and French-language media, it is certainly appropriate to use the term to describe him. Rightism and leftism have nothing to do with monarchism and republicanism in the modern day, and to conflate them is to commit a far more egregious error than to use far-right or far-left. The terms are not strictly derisive, though they are sometimes used in common parlance as such, and I believe both Le Pen and some of the far-left candidates such as Besancenot pride themselves on using those very terms. (It's only an insult if you'd rather not be associated with the far-right or far-left.) Given that Le Pen identifies strongly with earlier far-right leaders such as Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco, it is perfectly acceptable to refer to him as such. Similarly, labeling Sarkozy a conservative (which he, in monetary matters, is not) and Royal a socialist (which she is not; the Parti Socialiste is actually social democratic, not socialist) are far more problematic than the term right-wing and left-wing. I've reverted your edit. —Cuiviénen 00:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You still haven't defined rightwing. It is all too often more of an insult than a useful description of political views. During my student days I was called "rightwing fascist pig" more times than I could count, mainly by Stalinists and other revolutionary types, although I am a Clinton Democrat. Le Pen's views, however, do appear to be more specifically nationalist and racist than Libertarian, all three of which are labeled "rightwing." So, I consider your blanket use of the term somewhat non-specific and POV. By the way, Mussolini and Franco had little in common ideologically -- Franco was a reactionary monarchist, Mussolini was militaristic socialism. The three things they had in common were the stiff-arm salute, anti-communism and authoritarianism. Scott Adler 06:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Far-right is still an accurate description for Mussolini, Franco and Le Pen; and mind that in European politics, Clinton Democrats are at least as far to the right as the EPP... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 16:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that the topic discussed here is French politics, it seems correct that the words "left-wing", "right-wing", "centrist", "far-left" and "far-right", translating gauche, droite, centriste, extrême-gauche et extrême-droite should be used with the customary meaning that they have in the vast majority of the French press.

I understand that some groups that almost everybody would call far-left contend that other groups generally considered to be far-left, such as the Revolutionary Communist League, really are center-right; however, for the sake of clarity, we should stick to the common meaning that the words that we use have in the context of current French politics. David.Monniaux 17:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] blog link

I just removed the link [1] from external links, which was added by 83.202.60.74 on March 23. I readily admit that I have somewhat a conflict of interest doing this, as I have my own site on the election [2], but the site added to external links was no different than many other professionally written sites on the election, and considering it was the only edit by an anonymous user, likely link spam. Joshdboz 11:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] article on the french electoral system?

I can't find an article on how the election works. Is there one? If so, can it be put somewhere more prominent. I event looked at other articles related to French elections but couldn't find a link. The pieces of information I was looking for are: can only 2 candidates qualify for the second round? and what are the criteria for their being a secnod round? I'm not posting those questions here because I want answers, instead I'm just showing what type of information I couldn't find. Gronky 11:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The information you want is at President_of_the_French_Republic#Election. In brief, if no candidate has over 50% of votes, then the top two candidates have a 2nd round. Thermaland 15:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)