Talk:Free climbing

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I added the {{Mergefrom|Free solo climbing}} tag to this article. Both articles are quite short and say almost the same thing. The only diffrence between the two seems to be that the topic of the other article is a subset of the this one, where the only diffrence is weather or not you are going about the free climbing while alone. I suspect that such a minor diffrence coudl be addressed in a single article with a short discussion of variations. Dalf | Talk 06:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

203.32.168.75 Free climbing is a general term for rock climbing done using only the hands and the feet for forward progress and using the rope only to protect the climbers from falls. The termonology is a bit confusing, but free soloing is free climbing done without a rope. I don't feel that the topics should be merged because they are quite different: free climbing is what the majority of people are doing when they go rock climbing whereas free soloing is done much more rarely and is considered by many to be quite risky.

203.32.168.75 I agree that the two warrant distinct definitions. "Free climbing" and "free solo" are often confused. Furthermore, the definition of "free solo" has no relationship to whether or not the climber is alone. It is entirely possible to climb "roped solo" (either "free" or "with aid") or for two or more climbers to be climbing "free solo".

Yes that distinction aside, it does seem that the two are very much related, in terms of equptment used (or in this case not used). As both articles are almost sub-stubs it might be worthwhile to combine them (possibly into a diffrently named article). I think combinning articles can encorage mroe deiting attention and then once they have grown if it seem approprate they can be split back out based on the content present. Dalf | Talk 04:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

This is certainly very confusing. I am assuming that 'free solo climbing' (or soloing) is a subset of 'free climbing'. Free climbing is without using picks or anything, just your hands. Solo adds on no rope? Yet it was mentioned that you can use rope... Perhaps using Wiki Categories we can do one in the other if they're inclusive. Tyciol 20:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Free Soloing and Free Climbing are quite different

These two terms are often confused by non climbers as the names are very similar however, they represent two completely different styles of climbing.

Rock climbing can be broken into several different forms, and technically, free soloing is a subcategory of free climbing, but so are many others: this goes for sport climbing, traditional climbing, toproping as well as bouldering. Free climbing denotes NON-AID climbing, thats all. It just means that protection, whether bolts, a toprope, trad gear or otherwise, is simply that, protection, it is not to be used to aid a climber up the wall. Free soloing usees NO protection, which starkly contrasts all other styles of climbing (excluding bouldering which uses no roped pro but still uses crash pads.)°

Despite the name "soloing," being alone is not the deciding factor here (though it is often done in this manner), it is simply climbing without protection. Roped soloing is another form of climbing in which a climber belays himself.

Free climbing is a large general category of climbing which includes many others, Free soloing is a very small one generaly only practiced by very experianced climbers, thus the two are very different and should not be merged. If anything the free climbing page could be expanded to show all forms of climbing included in "free climbing" whith links to their respective articles.

I agree with the comment above. gala.martin (what?) 17:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The text above describes the terms quite clearly, and perhaps some of it should be moved into the entry for Free Climbing, because non-climbers often think Free Climbing means Free Soloing. One other point - there is also an entry for "Solo Climbing" which is not inaccurate, but might be better linked. Duncant 03:51, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from Common Usage

There is some regional differnces as well. Growing up in Southern California, as a teen, when we talked about "free climbing" we really meant... the term "free soloing" as defined here. But in common usage by non-professional climbers... we all knew it meant using NOTHING> from my perspective as a climber for 20 years, but not a professional, we used the terms "free climbing" to denote nothing.. just you and the rock... "Roped Climbing" to climb with just a safety rope ( the protection noted above) and then "techincal climbing" to denote the use of "hardware" beyond simple securements.... such as bolts, laddeers, pulleys, etc. anything more than just a simple belay.

Some individuals i know use the term "clean climbing" which refers to not using anything that "stays behind" for example, pitons or bolts. They use only nuts and cam devieces, adn the bottom climber "cleans up" as they climb and are top belayed. then they have the nuts and botls, and then pass the previous "lead climber" and takes the lead, being belayed from below.

Some feel this is a bit riskier as you "clean up" there is aperiod of time when you have one point of contact with the rock for a belay. but for the many "free solo" climbers I know... this is how we have delt with our age and lesser abilites. also with greater responsibility to work, familes, the group / community I climb with is using more "protection" and those"single belay" moments bring back the "juice" of our old free climbing days. Just a thought. 146.82.32.242 14:37, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The confusion

Ok, currently there is:

  • Solo climbing - defines "solo climbing" as climbing by yourself, split into "roped solo" (a form of aid climbing), and "free solo" (without ropes, a form of free climbing). The possibility of climbing by yourself, using a rope only for protection, does not seem to be covered
  • free solo climbing - defines "free solo climbing" as not using any protection, but doesn't specify whether you have to be alone
  • free climbing - defines "free climbing" as being the opposite of "aid climbing", climbing with protection but only using hands/feet. Also considers "free solo climbing" and "bouldering" as sub-forms.

Based on the conversation above, the most coherent picture would in fact be:

  • Free climbing: just the opposite of aid climbing, but occasionally misused to mean "free solo climbing"
    • Free solo climbing: a variation of free climbing with no rope, of which bouldering and deep-water soloing are safer variants
  • ?Solo climbing (if that's the real term): Completely unrelated, just means climbing any style by yourself, whether with protection or without.

Therefore I recommend:

Hope this helps. Stevage 15:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My take

I am new at this so I am going to forgo the formating for now.
Don't merge them. The distinctions are important.
Learned to climb in socal. Free climbing meant not to use aid. Free solo meant not to use a rope.
"Solo climbing" never really heard of that term before.
Have heard of
roped solo (free or aid)
unroped solo (aid and sometime free(not the same as free soloing))
Many people freesolo with a partner.
The line between free soloing and scrambling becomes blurred in the mountains.

--Thinredline 17:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

from the article

Free climbing is a style of climbing in which the climber uses no artificial aids to make progress upwards, but just hands, feet and other parts of the body.
(according to that, sport climbing is aid climbing unless your on a redpoint attempt or flash. In other words 90% of the time sport climbers are not "free climbing" Now, I suppose you are going to claim that hanging doesn't aid forward progress")
Equipment is used only for protection against the consequences of a fall.
(Never heard of a belay anchor? Few people refuse to weight a belay anchor(to fullfill the ideal of free climbing) and most accept it as a point of aid)
The term is used in contrast to aid climbing, in which equipment is used directly to make progress.

(finally something partially factual. The only problem is that many, if not most, aid routes have free climbing sections)

Styles of free climbing include traditional climbing, sport climbing, some forms of solo climbing and bouldering. Free soloing is a type of free climbing where no rope is used for protection and falls would be disastrous.

(So the only style of freeclimbing that fits your definition is free soloing) ps being protected from the consequences of a fall by a rope or crash pad is another form of artificial aid that aids upward progress, unless your into word games as oppossed to reality.

Better to have left it as free climbing means not to use aid. (simpler and more correct)

definitions of Free Climbing pat ament, wizards of rock: ... avoiding direct support from equipment ... don mellor " climb from the bottom to the top without weighting and gear or the rope freedom of the hills: weight the rope or gear is poor style.., "switching between the techniques of aid and free climbing." chris oxlade rockclimbing "Most climbing is free climbing" definition of "free" by john long : hands and feet, rope is strictly a safeguard, not for upward progress

Not one mention of anything being a "style of freeclimbing" in any of the above books.. What books do you guys use as a reference source?

Thinredline 04:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] misinformation

Free climbing means climbing solely on one's own effort, with or without pro (protection- rope, cams, nuts, etc). Within the context of climbing, "free climbing" is the antithesis of AID climbing. This definition is pretty universal. I hope that this entry will eventually be corrected.Reddirt 22:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

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