Talk:Fray Thomas de San Martín

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Name, and hence article title

Do you have any citation for the mixed-language version of the name "Fray Thomas de San Martin"? I would expect "Fray Tomás de San Martín", "Friar Thomas of San Martín", maybe even "Friar Thomas of Saint Martin", but "Fray Thomas de San Martin" seems a very odd combination. Again, what is the cited source for this being a correct form of his name? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:26, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

With Google, I find two hits for "Fray Thomas de San Martin" versus eighty-five hits for "Fray Tomas de San Martin", among which this profile of him in the Galería de Rectores [1] at the UNSM itself, which appears to have been a source for this article but inexplicably was not included in the external links (now fixed). I think there is a strong case for renaming the article and references to him. -- Viajero 08:49, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Seems like what the kids call a "no-brainer". Moved to Fray Tomás de San Martín. Redirs needed from form of name without the "fray"? –Hajor 14:30, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Hajor. Having noticed that you linked fray to "friar", I am wondering now whether the article shouldn't actually be at Tomás de San Martín. Normally we don't include titles within the article name. (See: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles)). -- Viajero 15:01, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I honestly don't know. I remember getting into a mess here about some Toltec shaman who styled himself as "don" smthg or other. Of course, he published under that name (which would also be the case with Sor Juana and Fray Luis de León), so perhaps the guiding rule there should be "use common names". I really don't know enough about this gent. Your call. (Definitely should have pre-emptive redirects, just in case.) –Hajor 15:14, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Recent modifications

• The name Tomás was restituted again to Thomas, due to official document in which states the original name of the rector was Thomas and not Tomás. [[2]]
  • Excerpt: Don Carlos y Doña Juana &c. Por quanto Fray Thomas de San Martin e obispo de la villa de La Plata, que es en las Provincias del Perú, nos ha hecho relación que él quiere hacer e fundar en el dicho obispado..
  • This document dates back 16th century, from the time of stablisment of UNMSM.
• Fixed links related to references, and minor enhacements.

HappyApple 16:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Here we go again. Why should that document be considered authoratative? On its own website, the UNSM refers to him as Tomás. Unless you can come up with more compelling argument than that, I will return the article to its original location. -- Viajero | Talk 17:00, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I would said that you leave it in the present state, and gives HappyApple the chance to explain this move. It appears that he has some credible documents that support this move. Messhermit 20:18, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)