Talk:Francis Lascelles Jardine

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Portal	Francis Lascelles Jardine is maintained by WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
Stub	This article has been rated as stub-class on the quality scale.
Low	This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian history.
Assessment comments This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

[edit] Category:Australian mass murderers

(Removed from cat:Australian mass murderers because this article does not apparently establish or even assert that Lascelles Jardine was a murderer.)

This short and largely unreferenced article does assert that (a claim he 'confessed' to) he was the leader of a party responsible for the death of over 200 people, 45 by his own hand. This was of course illegal under british law and the culture dominating the region of the day. I'm afraid Frank is eminently qualified for inclusion in the category. The only reason for none inclusion might be WP:N, there were so many people illegally killing people that his crime is diluted. I think Frank outshone them all. Restoring it. - Fred 05:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree that such a conclusion can properly be asserted in the article, without a reference to cite that states a similar conclusion (i.e., that Jardine was guilty specifically of murder), in view of the "no original research" policy. Frankly my knowledge of the person named in the article is very limited; however, the bare fact of committing a killing—or even vast numbers of killings—does not itself support the legal conclusion of murder in most common law jurisdictions (as there might have been circumstances that would have rendered the killings "justified" under British law, such as claims of self-defense, etc.). You mention a dominant culture of the relevant region—are you perhaps alluding to the culture of the Indigenous Australians of that area? In that case, if you are aware of such a community that has pronounced such a judgment, that would certainly be relevant and your contribution of a citation would be greatly appreciated. For now, absent citable documentation to support that conclusion, please understand my reasons for again removing the Australian mass murderers category from the article. --Ryanaxp 19:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

^{This page is for discussion about the article. You are welcome to comment at my talk page Fred}

The Jardine journals (and confessions) are adequate proof of their guilt. There are other documents relating to this journey, some of them have been cited already. The citation for my use of the word 'murder' is Cain. I have added a reference to the article. - Fred 11:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)